external oxygen port?

[Kyler Laird]

On our way home not long ago we landed in Denver with our oxygen
getting low. I asked for a fill and they gave it their best shot
but our configuration didn't leave them sufficient space for all
of the adapters they needed to use. The ride home was...well, I
was glad that I had the oximeter. (As we went over the
Mississippi my wife couldn't think of the word for barge. "Give
me your finger!")

I'd like to make filling the O2 easier - especially when I've got
the rear baggage compartment loaded to the gills. An external O2
port seems like an answer. Another possibility is to have a more
standard port (than what we have now) that's located on the
ceiling or back wall just inside the baggage compartment door.
If I had something like this I think I'd finally get a couple of
O2 tanks for my hangar. That would make me more likely to have a
full charge when I need it.

Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec?

Thank you.

--kyler

[JDupre5762]

>Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec?

I would start with research in an Aztec Parts book and see if something similar
was an option. I serviced oxygen on an Aztec recently. I remember the
servicing port being on the right side aft of the rear window and before the
horizontal stab. The gauge was in the overhead above the rear baggage area. I
would think most of the parts would be available from salvage yards or readily
manufactured like the lines. If you are going to do this it would be simpler
from an approval standpoint to duplicate the Piper installation for everything
including mounting the oxygen tank.

The hardest part will probably be approval. I would talk to the IA who will
approve the installation and get his take on it first. Depending on the
cooperativeness of the local FSDO it could be really simple or a long drawn out
affair. Using all Piper parts and manuals will be easier since that
installation is already approved on Aztecs. There may be an STC as well for
such an installation but that might mean purchasing a new bottle etc.

If the problem is really getting connected to your bottle maybe purchasing the
appropriate fitting would be a good compromise. In my experience most oxygen
service regulators use a hose with a #4 B nut with a 37 degree flare. There
seem to be three different sizes of service fitting. One takes a 7/16" wrench
(most jets) and another a 3/4" wrench (most Mooneys plus IAI jets). The last
type is for connecting directly to the bottle and takes at least a 1" wrench.
This last fitting takes a flareless to flare adapter in order to attach the
fitting to the hose on the service cart.

John Dupre'

[Kyler Laird]

(JDupre5762) writes:

>>Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec?

>I would start with research in an Aztec Parts book and see if something similar
>was an option. I serviced oxygen on an Aztec recently. I remember the
>servicing port being on the right side aft of the rear window and before the
>horizontal stab.

Whoa! That's interesting. That's opposite the side of the tank.

>The gauge was in the overhead above the rear baggage area.

Yup. It's not great when filling nor in flight, but it works o.k.

>I
>would think most of the parts would be available from salvage yards or readily
>manufactured like the lines. If you are going to do this it would be simpler
>from an approval standpoint to duplicate the Piper installation for everything
>including mounting the oxygen tank.

Indeed! I had no idea anything like that existed for the Aztec. I just
have the plain (1966) factory installation. Perhaps it came on the
later models.

>The hardest part will probably be approval. I would talk to the IA who will
>approve the installation and get his take on it first. Depending on the
>cooperativeness of the local FSDO it could be really simple or a long drawn out
>affair. Using all Piper parts and manuals will be easier since that
>installation is already approved on Aztecs.

Agreed. I'm going to start asking around.

>There may be an STC as well for
>such an installation but that might mean purchasing a new bottle etc.

This is the only oxygen-related STC I see.
Capitol Aviation, Inc., Capitol Airport, Springfield, IL62705

SA3-94:
PA-23 Series
Narco 1016 antenna and/or remote compass transmitter,equipment shelf, oxygen bottle mounting.

>If the problem is really getting connected to your bottle maybe purchasing the
>appropriate fitting would be a good compromise.

That's what I had planned, but it's still a pain to get to the fitting
with the compartment full (as it usually is when I need a fill). I also
don't like the stress on the parts there. I've had problems with the
gauge and the shutoff valve.

If I had something that I could top off with just a few simple steps while
it's in the hangar, my whole attitude about keeping it topped would change.

Thanks for the info!

--kyler

[Dan Thompson]

I hate to rain on your parade, but I really like my portable O2 bottle. I
used to have a Saratoga with built in oxygen, and it was a pain in the neck
to use and re-fill. The nice thing about portable is that if I am going
somewhere with a heavy load and know I will not need oxygen, I just put the
bottle in the car and the useful load goes up 50 pounds. Refills at the
welding shop are a snap.

"Kyler Laird" > wrote in message
...
> (JDupre5762) writes:
>
> >>Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec?
>
> >I would start with research in an Aztec Parts book and see if something
similar
> >was an option. I serviced oxygen on an Aztec recently. I remember the
> >servicing port being on the right side aft of the rear window and before
the
> >horizontal stab.
>
> Whoa! That's interesting. That's opposite the side of the tank.
>
> >The gauge was in the overhead above the rear baggage area.
>
> Yup. It's not great when filling nor in flight, but it works o.k.
>
> >I
> >would think most of the parts would be available from salvage yards or
readily
> >manufactured like the lines. If you are going to do this it would be
simpler
> >from an approval standpoint to duplicate the Piper installation for
everything
> >including mounting the oxygen tank.
>
> Indeed! I had no idea anything like that existed for the Aztec. I just
> have the plain (1966) factory installation. Perhaps it came on the
> later models.
>
> >The hardest part will probably be approval. I would talk to the IA who
will
> >approve the installation and get his take on it first. Depending on the
> >cooperativeness of the local FSDO it could be really simple or a long
drawn out
> >affair. Using all Piper parts and manuals will be easier since that
> >installation is already approved on Aztecs.
>
> Agreed. I'm going to start asking around.
>
> >There may be an STC as well for
> >such an installation but that might mean purchasing a new bottle etc.
>
> This is the only oxygen-related STC I see.
> Capitol Aviation, Inc., Capitol Airport, Springfield, IL62705
>
> SA3-94:
> PA-23 Series
> Narco 1016 antenna and/or remote compass transmitter,equipment
shelf, oxygen bottle mounting.
>
> >If the problem is really getting connected to your bottle maybe
purchasing the
> >appropriate fitting would be a good compromise.
>
> That's what I had planned, but it's still a pain to get to the fitting
> with the compartment full (as it usually is when I need a fill). I also
> don't like the stress on the parts there. I've had problems with the
> gauge and the shutoff valve.
>
> If I had something that I could top off with just a few simple steps while
> it's in the hangar, my whole attitude about keeping it topped would
change.
>
> Thanks for the info!
>
> --kyler

[James M. Knox]

Kyler Laird > wrote in news:kgoo41-gc5.ln1
@jowls.lairds.org:

> On our way home not long ago we landed in Denver with our oxygen
> getting low. I asked for a fill and they gave it their best shot
> but our configuration didn't leave them sufficient space for all
> of the adapters they needed to use.
> Any ideas on installing something like this in an Aztec?

Maybe a simpler option, given that the FAA will get involved in any
permanent installation. As I understand it, the real problem is not with
the fill port, but rather with the adapters some FBO's need not fitting
into the space.

Go to your local welding gas supply company and have them order or make a
short (12" to 18") extension hose. One end fits your fill port. The other
end can be the same as your fill port *or* it can be some other connector
if you are finding them more common at FBO's. Either way, no adapters near
the aircraft fill port are needed.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

[Kyler Laird]

"James M. Knox" > writes:

>Maybe a simpler option, given that the FAA will get involved in any
>permanent installation.

I like simple. I like not having to involve the FAA.

>As I understand it, the real problem is not with
>the fill port, but rather with the adapters some FBO's need not fitting
>into the space.

The location of the fill port (behind all of our luggage) *is* a
problem. It's not the primary problem, but it's one I'd like to solve
while I'm working on this.

>Go to your local welding gas supply company and have them order or make a
>short (12" to 18") extension hose. One end fits your fill port. The other
>end can be the same as your fill port *or* it can be some other connector
>if you are finding them more common at FBO's. Either way, no adapters near
>the aircraft fill port are needed.

Is there a reasonable way to do this such that access to the valve on
the tank is not required? I think I'd be quite happy using a 36" hose
with a one-way (fill only) valve near the tank. Then I could put a
common fitting on the other end with an easily-removed cap. That could
drape over/through the baggage or even be "temporarily" tacked to the
ceiling, leaving it readily accessible on trips.

Is that a reasonable way to handle it? Is a one-way valve sufficiently
safe? I'm guessing that something similar is done with the external
fill ports.

--kyler

[mah]

Kyler,

Been lurking here for a short while and thought I'd chime in.

I'm not sure of the legality of any of this since I don't know all the
different TSO's and other rules involved.

1. Have you considered getting an aluminum or carbon fiber tank for the
oxygen? We changed to them on our ambulance and had a decrease in
weight. This might help with your ability to add a pound or two of
carried weight. Don't know what it would do to your weight and
balance. Second, the filled volume is a couple of cubic feet delivered
higher than a similar size steel cylinder. Same external size with
thinner walls means more volume at the same pressure. Check with your
supplier for details. This might mean fewer refills. But you would
have to recalibrate your usage chart.

2. Is the system high pressure or low pressure to the front of the
aircraft? If high pressure up front, you could possibly back fill by
putting a T connector just before the regulator and be able to refill
from the cockpit.

Again, not an A&P or someone knowing the rules. Just using the problem
presented to exercise my mind.

MAH

[James M. Knox]

Kyler Laird > wrote in
:

> I like simple. I like not having to involve the FAA.
> Is there a reasonable way to do this such that access to the valve on
> the tank is not required? I think I'd be quite happy using a 36" hose
> with a one-way (fill only) valve near the tank. Then I could put a
> common fitting on the other end with an easily-removed cap.

Interesting question. I'm not sure of the answer. A gas supply (and
equipment) shop might be able to guide you. Ignoring the issue that your
temporary extension hose is now *permanently* attached <G>... Rather than
a one-way valve, why not just a simple in-line valve?

The place I use has a book, about a 1000 pages thick, of valves and
connectors and hoses. It's like the "have it your way" burger folks. You
just start picking one from group A, one from group B, ... A few days
later it arrives in a padded package.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

[Kyler Laird]

mah > writes:

>1. Have you considered getting an aluminum or carbon fiber tank for the
>oxygen?

Yes, I replaced my thick(?) steel tank not long ago. I thought I should
do something interesting while I was replacing. It turned out that there
was no big benefit but the costs (financial and time/approval-wise) were
high as I recall.

>We changed to them on our ambulance and had a decrease in
>weight. This might help with your ability to add a pound or two of
>carried weight.

I'm not obsessed with shedding weight. (That was someone else.) I'm
trying to eliminate hassle.

>Second, the filled volume is a couple of cubic feet delivered
>higher than a similar size steel cylinder. Same external size with
>thinner walls means more volume at the same pressure. Check with your
>supplier for details. This might mean fewer refills. But you would
>have to recalibrate your usage chart.

It's usually just one or two of us sucking oxygen. I appreciate the
advantage of greater capacity, but if I really want to stretch the
duration I'll go with an electronic regulator (or two). I suspect that
the cost (in the long run) will be lower.

>2. Is the system high pressure or low pressure to the front of the
>aircraft? If high pressure up front, you could possibly back fill by
>putting a T connector just before the regulator and be able to refill
>from the cockpit.

Yeah, I briefly thought about that too. I'm fairly sure that there's a
regulator between the tank and the outlets that would cause problems.

>Again, not an A&P or someone knowing the rules. Just using the problem
>presented to exercise my mind.

I appreciate it.

--kyler

[Kyler Laird]

"James M. Knox" > writes:

>Ignoring the issue that your
>temporary extension hose is now *permanently* attached <G>...

Oh, yeah...

>Rather than
>a one-way valve, why not just a simple in-line valve?

I was thinking that the valve should be located close to the tank (so
that the hose isn't constantly "hot"), but I don't want to have to
reach in there when I charge it.

--kyler