Cherokee 180

[Steven Barnes]

Well, I'm jumping into aircraft ownership (co-ownership, 2 other
"partners"). I put the deposit down on a Cherokee 180 yesterday. Hope to
have everything finalized by next weekend. Someone posted where the Piper
owners club's web site was some time back, but I missed it. Can someone post
it again?

Ok. Gotta get back to work. Need more money...

--



PP-ASEL

[David Megginson]

"Steven Barnes" > writes:

> Well, I'm jumping into aircraft ownership (co-ownership, 2 other
> "partners"). I put the deposit down on a Cherokee 180
> yesterday. Hope to have everything finalized by next
> weekend. Someone posted where the Piper owners club's web site was
> some time back, but I missed it. Can someone post it again?

Congrats. You can join one Piper list here:

http://www.1st-of-pryor.com/list.asp


All the best,


David

[Ray Andraka]

Cherokee Pilot's association is where you should go. The information on
the chat board and in the tips and hints book is worth many times the
annual subscription price ($34 IIRC). Get more info at
http://www.piperowner.com

David Megginson wrote:

> "Steven Barnes" > writes:
>
> > Well, I'm jumping into aircraft ownership (co-ownership, 2 other
> > "partners"). I put the deposit down on a Cherokee 180
> > yesterday. Hope to have everything finalized by next
> > weekend. Someone posted where the Piper owners club's web site was
> > some time back, but I missed it. Can someone post it again?
>
> Congrats. You can join one Piper list here:
>
> http://www.1st-of-pryor.com/list.asp
>
> All the best,
>
> David

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Jeff]

congrats, the cherokee 180 is a good plane, thats what my first plane was.
there are several piper owner sites/groups

http://www.piperowner.org
http://www.piperowner.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pipercherokee



Steven Barnes wrote:

> Well, I'm jumping into aircraft ownership (co-ownership, 2 other
> "partners"). I put the deposit down on a Cherokee 180 yesterday. Hope to
> have everything finalized by next weekend. Someone posted where the Piper
> owners club's web site was some time back, but I missed it. Can someone post
> it again?
>
> Ok. Gotta get back to work. Need more money...
>
> --
>
>
>
> PP-ASEL

[Jay Honeck]

> Cherokee Pilot's association is where you should go. The information on
> the chat board and in the tips and hints book is worth many times the
> annual subscription price ($34 IIRC). Get more info at
> http://www.piperowner.com

I will second Ray's motion. You'll learn more about your Cherokee with CPA
then through any other group.

And, BTW: did you know there is a rudder trim indicator on your 180? ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Russell Kent]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> And, BTW: did you know there is a rudder trim indicator on your 180? ;-)

Actually, didn't we determine that it is in fact a rudder trim control
indicator (i.e. indicates where the control currently is within its full
throw)? By way of contrast, I believe that the Cessna electric flap position
indicator is actually attached to a cable on the flap, so that the position
indicated reflects the actual flap position, regardless of where one positions
the flap actuator ("she sells sea shells..."). Of course those that know how
the Cessna mechanism works will understand why it has to be that way.

Russell Kent

[Steven Barnes]

One thing that bothers me about the 180 we're getting is that it seems to
take almost full left rudder trim to keep the plane tracking straight with 2
people up front & both tanks full. Is that something that's easily fixed?
Keep trim where it is but reset the trim knob to center to allow for more
travel?

We hope to close on Friday. Now I just gotta get CFI endorsement for the
insurance so I can get the damn thing home!


"Russell Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > And, BTW: did you know there is a rudder trim indicator on your 180?
;-)
>
> Actually, didn't we determine that it is in fact a rudder trim control
> indicator (i.e. indicates where the control currently is within its full
> throw)? By way of contrast, I believe that the Cessna electric flap
position
> indicator is actually attached to a cable on the flap, so that the
position
> indicated reflects the actual flap position, regardless of where one
positions
> the flap actuator ("she sells sea shells..."). Of course those that know
how
> the Cessna mechanism works will understand why it has to be that way.
>
> Russell Kent
>

[Dan Luke]

"Steven Barnes" wrote:
> Well, I'm jumping into aircraft ownership (co-ownership,
> 2 other "partners"). I put the deposit down on a Cherokee
> 180 yesterday.

Attaboy, Steven. Good choice, BTW.

> Ok. Gotta get back to work. Need more money...

Ooohhh boy, do you ever...
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Neal]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:59:18 -0500, Russell Kent >
wrote:

>Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> And, BTW: did you know there is a rudder trim indicator on your 180? ;-)
>
>Actually, didn't we determine that it is in fact a rudder trim control
>indicator (i.e. indicates where the control currently is within its full

....and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
in over 300 hours flying since then.

.... and yes, I have touched the rudder pedals themselves at least a
few times in that 300+ hours ;-)

[Mike Beede]

In article >, Steven Barnes > wrote:

> One thing that bothers me about the 180 we're getting is that it seems to
> take almost full left rudder trim to keep the plane tracking straight with 2
> people up front & both tanks full. Is that something that's easily fixed?
> Keep trim where it is but reset the trim knob to center to allow for more
> travel?

I can't answer that, but in best USENET tradition I have a question to follow
up: what is the position of the actual trimming surface (I don't know if there's
a separate tab or if, like on a Cessna, the rudder is just pulled over a little)?

Regards,

Mike

[Ray Andraka]

The cherokee trim works by putting spring pressure on the rudder, not with a separate tab. Your rudder may be
out of rig, making it necessary to apply some pressure to put it straight. As far as I know, the indicator is
not adjustable. I think it is the edge of a washer on the threaded spring tensioner. It should center when the
rudder is properly rigged. You might start by looking to make sure the tension on the cables is correct, that
it properly goes over the pulleys and no pulleys are broken. Also check to make sure the rudder bar the pedals
are connected to is not slipping at the joint near the middle (as I recall there is a joint in the middle with a
bolt through it). Basically, what I am saying is that I don't think the indicator is the problem, rather it is
a symptom of a rigging problem.

Mike Beede wrote:

> In article >, Steven Barnes > wrote:
>
> > One thing that bothers me about the 180 we're getting is that it seems to
> > take almost full left rudder trim to keep the plane tracking straight with 2
> > people up front & both tanks full. Is that something that's easily fixed?
> > Keep trim where it is but reset the trim knob to center to allow for more
> > travel?
>
> I can't answer that, but in best USENET tradition I have a question to follow
> up: what is the position of the actual trimming surface (I don't know if there's
> a separate tab or if, like on a Cessna, the rudder is just pulled over a little)?
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Ray Andraka]

I do use mine occasionally for a long climb. I agree though that it is not a
necessary thing though.

Neal wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:59:18 -0500, Russell Kent >
> wrote:
>
> >Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> >> And, BTW: did you know there is a rudder trim indicator on your 180? ;-)
> >
> >Actually, didn't we determine that it is in fact a rudder trim control
> >indicator (i.e. indicates where the control currently is within its full
>
> ...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
> so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
> feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
> in over 300 hours flying since then.
>
> ... and yes, I have touched the rudder pedals themselves at least a
> few times in that 300+ hours ;-)

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[[email protected]]

Steven Barnes > wrote:
: We hope to close on Friday. Now I just gotta get CFI endorsement for the
: insurance so I can get the damn thing home!

I understand that completely. When we got our Cherokee 180, I was
almost done with my PPL in a 172. Ended up taking a "safety pilot" when I
went to fly it home. You can bet that was incentive to finally finish my
ticket when I had my "new" airplane sitting on the ramp that I couldn't
fly. I didn't want to throw money at an endorsement, familiarity flying,
etc, etc when I could do that my own self once I got my ticket. Within a
week, I had passed my checkride and gotten comfortable enough in it with a
pilot friend that flies cherokees for me to practice on my own... same
PPL-SEL as the 172.

Now comfortable, I'd like to fly the Cessna again to see what I
truly like better.

-Cory


--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[[email protected]]

Neal > wrote:
: ...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
: so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
: feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
: in over 300 hours flying since then.

True enough that the indicator has little use. The trim is good
for long climbs as someone mentioned, or if you snooze too long and forget
to switch tanks. The wing imbalance can be trimmed out with the rudder
trim, although you'll lose a little speed by flying sideways. Sometimes
worth it if the aileron pull keeps you flying in circles on the clouds...
:)

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[Dave Butler]

wrote:
> Neal > wrote:
> : ...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
> : so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
> : feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
> : in over 300 hours flying since then.
>
> True enough that the indicator has little use. The trim is good
> for long climbs as someone mentioned, or if you snooze too long and forget
> to switch tanks. The wing imbalance can be trimmed out with the rudder
> trim, although you'll lose a little speed by flying sideways. Sometimes
> worth it if the aileron pull keeps you flying in circles on the clouds...

In the 300 HP Lance I used to fly, S.O.P. was trim full right for takeoff and
climb, then full left for cruise and descent. Worked out about right.

Dave

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[Ray Andraka]

Wow, that is alot. I find that typically I only need about two turns either
direction.

Dave Butler wrote:

> wrote:
> > Neal > wrote:
> > : ...and what a useless indicator it really is. I just twisted the knob
> > : so that the ball was centered in straight and level flight with my
> > : feet off the pedals and forgot about it. Haven't had to touch it again
> > : in over 300 hours flying since then.
> >
> > True enough that the indicator has little use. The trim is good
> > for long climbs as someone mentioned, or if you snooze too long and forget
> > to switch tanks. The wing imbalance can be trimmed out with the rudder
> > trim, although you'll lose a little speed by flying sideways. Sometimes
> > worth it if the aileron pull keeps you flying in circles on the clouds...
>
> In the 300 HP Lance I used to fly, S.O.P. was trim full right for takeoff and
> climb, then full left for cruise and descent. Worked out about right.
>
> Dave
>
> Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[[email protected]]

On 6-Oct-2003, "Steven Barnes" > wrote:

> One thing that bothers me about the 180 we're getting is that it seems to
> take almost full left rudder trim to keep the plane tracking straight with
> 2 people up front & both tanks full. Is that something that's easily
> fixed?


The first thing I would do is to make sure that the "ball" (of the turn
coordinator or turn indicator) is centered when the airplane is sitting
level on the ground. We had the same issue (full left rudder trim required
to center the ball in cruise) with our Arrow, and discovered that the turn
coordinator instrument was slightly rotated in the panel, apparently because
the mounting screws had somehow loosened. Easy to fix, and probably added a
knot or three to cruise speed, since centering the ball prior to the fix
actually resulted in a slight slip.
--
-Elliott Drucker

[Jay Honeck]

> Wow, that is alot. I find that typically I only need about two turns
either
> direction.

Me, too -- three turns, at most -- and we've got 235 HP.

I guess 300 HP is, well, a bunch more horsepower!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave Butler]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>Wow, that is alot. I find that typically I only need about two turns
>
> either
>
>>direction.
>
>
> Me, too -- three turns, at most -- and we've got 235 HP.
>
> I guess 300 HP is, well, a bunch more horsepower!

....or maybe the springs in the rudder trim mechanism were weak.

[Blanche Cohen]

Not only centered, but level. If you have one, take a level with you
to properly set the T&C in the panel.