First Plane Question?

[Tom Hyslip]

I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s Cessna
152. How much should I consider the fair market price for one in descent
shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much insurance would be
for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very new pilot, and I love it.

Thanks,
Tom

[Sven]

"Tom Hyslip" > wrote in message
. com...
> I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s
Cessna
> 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for one in descent
> shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much insurance would be
> for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very new pilot, and I love it.

The cost for a C-152/150 will vary depending on features and location.
Depending on the area you're in, you 'should' be able to find a flyable 152
for around $25k. If it has a new overhaul, extra radios, features, etc.,
it'll cost more. If you do some serious looking, you may be able to find one
that's flyable for a lot less.

As far as insurance, it also depends on how much coverage you get, if the
plane is hangared and where the plane is based, etc. IIRC, my first year of
full coverage insurance was around $900 or so but that was a few years ago.
Decide if you want the full coverage or just the liability.

YMMV

[David Megginson]

"Tom Hyslip" > writes:

> I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s
> Cessna 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for
> one in descent shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much
> insurance would be for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very
> new pilot, and I love it.

The 152 is a great plane, from everything I've heard, but it's worth
considering other options to make sure that you get what you want.
Here are some considerations:

1. There are some four-seat planes, like the Piper Cherokee 140 and
Beech Musketeer, that are in about the same price range as a 152
(both for buying and flying), but go faster and carry more.

2. Buying a used plane is often the cheapest part of ownership --
insurance, maintenance, fuel, parking, etc. will burn through a
fair bit of money every year. If you are looking at a 152 because
money is tight, you might want to get your feet wet with a
partnership first, where you can share some fixed expenses.

I started out looking for a Cessna 172 or similar, because that's what
I trained it. I initially ruled out Cherokees right at the start
because they have only a single door, and because I didn't know much
about them. Fortunately, after trying out a Cardinal that I didn't
like much, I happened to notice a Piper Cherokee Warrior II for sale,
and looking at it in person got rid of most of my prejudices --
compared to the (fixed-gear) Cardinal I had just test flown, it had
better avionics, better paint and interior, a higher useful load,
faster airspeed, lower fuel burn, *and* a significantly lower price
(precisely because everyone who trains in Cessnas wants to buy a
Cessna, driving up the used prices).

Now, with under 8 gph fuel burn at 75% power (8.5 gph by the POH) and
roughly the same systems to maintain, the plane doesn't cost much more
to operate than a 150/152, but it cruises much faster (well over 120
ktas) and with a full-fuel useful load around 650 lb, it can carry my
whole family of four + luggage + dog.

I'm not suggesting that a Cherokee is the right first plane for you
just because it was for me, but I am suggesting that you not
automatically buy the kind of plane you trained in. It's a big
investment, so look around a while and make sure. Personally, I'm
glad that I overcame my own initial prejudices against non-Cessnas.


All the best,


David

[Fred Wolf]

there's a price calulator,, called something like Vref, i think you can get
it on the AOPA site

that gets you into the price ball park

I think the next major item is engine time till overhaul..
i think the 152 engine may only be good to about 1700 hrs..after that ,,
corrosion,,electronics & cosmetics

[Newps]

Vref sucks. It will always give you an inflated price. Use the price
calculator on the Trade-A-Plane website for a more realistic price.

Fred Wolf wrote:
> there's a price calulator,, called something like Vref, i think you can get
> it on the AOPA site
>
> that gets you into the price ball park
>
> I think the next major item is engine time till overhaul..
> i think the 152 engine may only be good to about 1700 hrs..after that ,,
> corrosion,,electronics & cosmetics
>
>

[Tom Hyslip]

David,

Thanks for the advice, I will certainly look at some other make / model
planes. It makes a lot of sense.

I think a partnership would be the best way for me to start, but I haven't
been able to find any in my area, so I decided to look at buying one myself.

The Piper Cherokee Warrior you purchased sounds very useful. Right now I
am looking for something to build time in, have fun, and work on my
instrument rating. But, down the road something simliar to the Warrior is
what I would like, with the good payload and speed, for a decent price.

Thanks again.

If anyone knows of partnerships forsale in the Raleigh, NC area, I would
appreciate the info.

Tom
"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...
> "Tom Hyslip" > writes:
>
> > I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s
> > Cessna 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for
> > one in descent shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much
> > insurance would be for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very
> > new pilot, and I love it.
>
> The 152 is a great plane, from everything I've heard, but it's worth
> considering other options to make sure that you get what you want.
> Here are some considerations:
>
> 1. There are some four-seat planes, like the Piper Cherokee 140 and
> Beech Musketeer, that are in about the same price range as a 152
> (both for buying and flying), but go faster and carry more.
>
> 2. Buying a used plane is often the cheapest part of ownership --
> insurance, maintenance, fuel, parking, etc. will burn through a
> fair bit of money every year. If you are looking at a 152 because
> money is tight, you might want to get your feet wet with a
> partnership first, where you can share some fixed expenses.
>
> I started out looking for a Cessna 172 or similar, because that's what
> I trained it. I initially ruled out Cherokees right at the start
> because they have only a single door, and because I didn't know much
> about them. Fortunately, after trying out a Cardinal that I didn't
> like much, I happened to notice a Piper Cherokee Warrior II for sale,
> and looking at it in person got rid of most of my prejudices --
> compared to the (fixed-gear) Cardinal I had just test flown, it had
> better avionics, better paint and interior, a higher useful load,
> faster airspeed, lower fuel burn, *and* a significantly lower price
> (precisely because everyone who trains in Cessnas wants to buy a
> Cessna, driving up the used prices).
>
> Now, with under 8 gph fuel burn at 75% power (8.5 gph by the POH) and
> roughly the same systems to maintain, the plane doesn't cost much more
> to operate than a 150/152, but it cruises much faster (well over 120
> ktas) and with a full-fuel useful load around 650 lb, it can carry my
> whole family of four + luggage + dog.
>
> I'm not suggesting that a Cherokee is the right first plane for you
> just because it was for me, but I am suggesting that you not
> automatically buy the kind of plane you trained in. It's a big
> investment, so look around a while and make sure. Personally, I'm
> glad that I overcame my own initial prejudices against non-Cessnas.
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> David

[David Megginson]

"Tom Hyslip" > writes:

> I think a partnership would be the best way for me to start, but I
> haven't been able to find any in my area, so I decided to look at
> buying one myself.

I ended up making the same choice -- I initially talked to someone
interested in a partnership, but I was in more of a hurry than him.

I think that the best kind of partnership would have been getting
involved with a couple of people who were already experienced with
owning. It is unbelievable how much there is to learn -- probably
many, many times what we learn in groundschool. I've had some
friendly AME's over the past year who have encouraged me to do some of
the work on the plane myself (including an owner-assisted annual), but
it's still been a cheap curve.

> The Piper Cherokee Warrior you purchased sounds very useful. Right
> now I am looking for something to build time in, have fun, and work
> on my instrument rating. But, down the road something simliar to
> the Warrior is what I would like, with the good payload and speed,
> for a decent price.

It might be for sale in a few years as my kids get bigger and I need
more load. Best of luck with the search. Since you live in a
well-populated area, it might be a good idea to go around to local
FBO's (say, within a two-hour drive) and get checked out on as many
different types of rental planes as you can -- Cessnas, Pipers,
Beechcraft, Katana's, etc. You never know what you'll fall in love
with.


All the best,


David

[Nathan Young]

"Tom Hyslip" > wrote in message >...
> I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s Cessna
> 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for one in descent
> shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much insurance would be
> for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very new pilot, and I love it.

Hi Tom,

Good luck in your search. Check out http://www.aso.com and
http://www.controller.com for online plane listings. You should be
able to get a good idea of what the market is asking. Many planes are
selling at discounts compared to 1-2 years ago, so it is a good time
to be buying.

Be certain to get a pre-purchase inspection by a mechanic who is not
affiliated with the seller and make sure that all ADs and important
SBs have been complied.

You should be able to find insurance for under $1000/yr for a C152. I
use Wenk Aviation (a broker) to help get a better rate and manage the
insurance process (paperwork and shopping around at renewal).

One last comment - you may want to rent several different makes/models
for a while to get an idea of what you want in a plane.

-Nathan

[[email protected]]

On 2-Nov-2003, "Tom Hyslip" > wrote:

> I think a partnership would be the best way for me to start, but I haven't
> been able to find any in my area, so I decided to look at buying one
> myself.
>
> The Piper Cherokee Warrior you purchased sounds very useful. Right now I
> am looking for something to build time in, have fun, and work on my
> instrument rating. But, down the road something similar to the Warrior is
> what I would like, with the good payload and speed, for a decent price.


Tom:

The advantages and disadvantages of co-ownership ("partnership")
arrangements have been discussed in many threads in this NG. You can find
them using a Google Groups search.

If you are planning to begin instrument training in the foreseeable future,
you will certainly want to look for an airplane that is at least minimally
equipped for IFR. The cost of adding equipment later will be far greater
than the higher price of an already-equipped bird. You will probably find
few 150/152s that are IFR equipped, and their small range and payload make
them marginally suited for IFR at any rate. I think you should check out
Cherokee 140s, a far more capable airplane than a 150/152 (in terms of
payload, range, speed, and typical equipment level) for not much more money
(purchase price and operating costs).
--
-Elliott Drucker

[[email protected]]

I would like to add one more data point to the non-Cessna group.
It sounds like you're in a very similar situation to me about 2 years ago
as I was finishing my PPL in a rental 172. I was looking at a Cessna 150
for the cheapest flying possible (5-6 gph on cargas sounded great). I
couldn't do it myself, so found a couple of "former" GA pilots who were
interested in going in on one. For about $5-10k more, we ended up with a
much more capable Cherokee (180, actually, but were looking for a 140). A
friend with a Cherokee 150 bought it to train in, per my suggestion. I
finished my instrument rating in my plane about 6 weeks ago.

If you're looking for a Sunday afternoon pattern-bopper, a C-150
would be great. For something with a bit more payload capacity and
minimally more operating/maintenance expense, a Cherokee makes a lot of
sense. It's a bit faster, climbs a bit better, and isn't marginal with
two people and a load of gas. At least here in the Appalachians, trying
to do an instrument rating with a C-150 would have been a royal pain in
the butt, since many minimum altitudes around here are 6000-7000'... takes
a *long* time to climb up there in something minimally powered. Besides,
I've figured out that I can get C-150 fuel burn (and cruise speeds) by
just throttling back to 50% power, leaning the beast, and touring the area
on <$10/hour direct operating costs.

Not that I'd presume to try to sway your opinion at all. Just
saying it worked well for me.... YMMV

Good luck!
-Cory

Tom Hyslip > wrote:
: I am looking to purchase my first plane, and would like an early 80s Cessna
: 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for one in descent
: shape, that is ready to fly? Also, any idea how much insurance would be
: for a C152. I only have around 50 hours, a very new pilot, and I love it.

: Thanks,
: Tom




--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[Bob Fry]

"Tom Hyslip" > writes:

> 152. How much should I consider the fair market price for one in descent
> shape, that is ready to fly?

Start flying to local airports. Look at the bulletin boards and walk
around the ramps, looking at C152s for sale. Call their owners, tell
them you're interested and want to know more...make appointments and
follow up in person.

After a while you'll get a good idea what people are asking for what
quality. You'll know what "fair" is, but it takes some work.