A/C Retrofit for Cherokee Six

[John Pelchat]

Does anyone have information regarding the feasibility of retrofitting
air-conditioning into a Piper Cherokee, possibly a 6/260? I live in
the southeast and would be flying toward Florida where heat and
humidity are a real challenge much of the year. A/C is one of things
that my wife would consider a must in any aircraft we were to
purchase.

And as long we are talking about Sixes, I would appreciate any
opinions regarding the pros and cons of the club seating that is
available in some planes.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Mike Spera]

Retrofitting? I would not recommend it. If anyone would even take on the
job, the price tag would be impressive. IF you can get them, $20k+ using
new parts. Even more if you buy used ones and then replace most of them
with new ones because they are... well...junk!. Then, you would have to
get all the paperwork approved for this MAJOR undertaking.

There are, however, a surprising number of Piper airplanes that came
with factory A/C. Unfortunately, these are R-12 systems that are usually
non-functioning by now. Nobody spent the money it took to keep them
alive. Finding one with factory air and getting it functional, while not
cheap, would be a fraction of the cost of trying to install it on a
non-A/C plane.

Be prepared for constant problems with alternator belts breaking unless
the alternator pulley, idler pulley, and bulkhead pulleys are NEW. Then,
figure on replacing the belt every 200 hours or so. Also figure on
replacing the loooong hoses that carry the refrigerant. A compressor
overhaul and new dryer are usually on the ticket too.

To make room for the compressor belt, Piper used a 3/8" wide alternator
belt. The thing is made of a very stiff compound and needs to be
tightened to 70 lbs. on perfectly aligned, NEW pulleys to keep them from
slipping and/or rolling and/or breaking. After 15 minutes of ground
running a new belt, you need to retension the belt back up to 70 lbs.
Many have bemoaned their troubles with these belts (try a Google
search). Don't get all these things right and they will break VERY
often. I had a couple that lasted less than 2 hours when my alternator
pulley was just slightly worn. The stiff belt compound stretched that
tight wears out the pulleys in about 1000 hours.

A/C will also cost you 68lbs. of useful load. These systems are not very
reliable or practical in Pipers. But, Pipers seem to be the only single
engined piston airplanes A/C was installed in with any frequency. A/C
in a light piston airplane is not like A/C in an auto. They are
uncommon, heavy (for an airplane), unreliable, and actually make a plane
worth LESS to many people.

Most folks just put up with the taxi and climb being uncomfortable until
cooler air is reached at altitude.

Good Luck,
Mike

John Pelchat wrote:
> Does anyone have information regarding the feasibility of retrofitting
> air-conditioning into a Piper Cherokee, possibly a 6/260? I live in
> the southeast and would be flying toward Florida where heat and
> humidity are a real challenge much of the year. A/C is one of things
> that my wife would consider a must in any aircraft we were to
> purchase.
>
> And as long we are talking about Sixes, I would appreciate any
> opinions regarding the pros and cons of the club seating that is
> available in some planes.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.


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[Jeff]

I have factory air in my Turbo Arrow III, works great. no problems with it at all - Use it all
the time during the summer.

there is a company that makes one for the lancAir, its like 8000$, you could ask them if they
will have one for your plane in the near future
http://www.airflow-systems.com/index.html

Jeff



Mike Spera wrote:

> Retrofitting? I would not recommend it. If anyone would even take on the
> job, the price tag would be impressive. IF you can get them, $20k+ using
> new parts. Even more if you buy used ones and then replace most of them
> with new ones because they are... well...junk!. Then, you would have to
> get all the paperwork approved for this MAJOR undertaking.
>
> There are, however, a surprising number of Piper airplanes that came
> with factory A/C. Unfortunately, these are R-12 systems that are usually
> non-functioning by now. Nobody spent the money it took to keep them
> alive. Finding one with factory air and getting it functional, while not
> cheap, would be a fraction of the cost of trying to install it on a
> non-A/C plane.
>
> Be prepared for constant problems with alternator belts breaking unless
> the alternator pulley, idler pulley, and bulkhead pulleys are NEW. Then,
> figure on replacing the belt every 200 hours or so. Also figure on
> replacing the loooong hoses that carry the refrigerant. A compressor
> overhaul and new dryer are usually on the ticket too.
>
> To make room for the compressor belt, Piper used a 3/8" wide alternator
> belt. The thing is made of a very stiff compound and needs to be
> tightened to 70 lbs. on perfectly aligned, NEW pulleys to keep them from
> slipping and/or rolling and/or breaking. After 15 minutes of ground
> running a new belt, you need to retension the belt back up to 70 lbs.
> Many have bemoaned their troubles with these belts (try a Google
> search). Don't get all these things right and they will break VERY
> often. I had a couple that lasted less than 2 hours when my alternator
> pulley was just slightly worn. The stiff belt compound stretched that
> tight wears out the pulleys in about 1000 hours.
>
> A/C will also cost you 68lbs. of useful load. These systems are not very
> reliable or practical in Pipers. But, Pipers seem to be the only single
> engined piston airplanes A/C was installed in with any frequency. A/C
> in a light piston airplane is not like A/C in an auto. They are
> uncommon, heavy (for an airplane), unreliable, and actually make a plane
> worth LESS to many people.
>
> Most folks just put up with the taxi and climb being uncomfortable until
> cooler air is reached at altitude.
>
> Good Luck,
> Mike
>
> John Pelchat wrote:
> > Does anyone have information regarding the feasibility of retrofitting
> > air-conditioning into a Piper Cherokee, possibly a 6/260? I live in
> > the southeast and would be flying toward Florida where heat and
> > humidity are a real challenge much of the year. A/C is one of things
> > that my wife would consider a must in any aircraft we were to
> > purchase.
> >
> > And as long we are talking about Sixes, I would appreciate any
> > opinions regarding the pros and cons of the club seating that is
> > available in some planes.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
>
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>

[Jeff]

Mine works great, when its 105 out, I can close the door, turn on the A/C and take my time. Nice
and comfortable inside. A/C was a requirement by my wife for me to get a new plane. I passed on
alot of planes for this one.

When I was getting checked out in my plane, the CFI would control the A/C, he told me to control
the plane and he would control the air, He went back into his office and asked the boss when he
was going to put air in all their planes.

Mike Spera wrote:

> They are
> uncommon, heavy (for an airplane), unreliable, and actually make a plane
> worth LESS to many people.
>
> Most folks just put up with the taxi and climb being uncomfortable until
> cooler air is reached at altitude.
>
> Good Luck,
> Mike
>
> John Pelchat wrote:
> > Does anyone have information regarding the feasibility of retrofitting
> > air-conditioning into a Piper Cherokee, possibly a 6/260? I live in
> > the southeast and would be flying toward Florida where heat and
> > humidity are a real challenge much of the year. A/C is one of things
> > that my wife would consider a must in any aircraft we were to
> > purchase.
> >
> > And as long we are talking about Sixes, I would appreciate any
> > opinions regarding the pros and cons of the club seating that is
> > available in some planes.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> __________________________________________________ _____________________________
> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
>

[Geoff Semler]

I have a six with club seating and as I never sit in the back, my view is a
bit theoretical but....

FOR

Rear passengers get more space when you do not fill all seats
Better headroom in the middle row.
Drinks cabinet/storage/7th seat in middle row
I can turn round and clobber the brats if they mis-behave (not that they
do, or I would) :-)


AGAINST
Some passengers do not like facing backwards (but it is probably safer than
facing forward!)
Legs get all tangled up when 5 or 6 up.
Middle row back rests are close to front row seats so you feel the kids
fidgetting around in the back.
Head room in third row may be less than forward facing version (not sure
this is true, needs checking)





(John Pelchat) wrote:

>Does anyone have information regarding the feasibility of retrofitting
>air-conditioning into a Piper Cherokee, possibly a 6/260? I live in
>the southeast and would be flying toward Florida where heat and
>humidity are a real challenge much of the year. A/C is one of things
>that my wife would consider a must in any aircraft we were to
>purchase.
>
>And as long we are talking about Sixes, I would appreciate any
>opinions regarding the pros and cons of the club seating that is
>available in some planes.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help.

[John Pelchat]

Geoff Semler > wrote in message >...
> I have a six with club seating and as I never sit in the back, my view is a
> bit theoretical but....
>
> FOR
>
> Rear passengers get more space when you do not fill all seats
> Better headroom in the middle row.
> Drinks cabinet/storage/7th seat in middle row
> I can turn round and clobber the brats if they mis-behave (not that they
> do, or I would) :-)
>
>
> AGAINST
> Some passengers do not like facing backwards (but it is probably safer than
> facing forward!)
> Legs get all tangled up when 5 or 6 up.
> Middle row back rests are close to front row seats so you feel the kids
> fidgetting around in the back.
> Head room in third row may be less than forward facing version (not sure
> this is true, needs checking)
>
>
Thanks to all, I'll keep looking for the right six with A/C and have
it closely inspected (along with everything else).

John

[Ray Andraka]

The club seating has the rear seats further back, so it is easier to get
into an aft CG situation than with the conventional seating. I don't
believe a 7th seat is available for the club seating arrangement either.
I have a conventional seating Six-260. When I was looking, I thought I
wanted a club seat configuration. After considering it though, I realized
I didn't really want to have kids sharing foot space... Now that #5 is
on his way, I'm glad I have the conventional seating, as it allowed me to
add a 7th seat. The conventional seating is a little tight for middle seat
leg room, but on the other hand, if you are tall the club seating limits
the aft positioning of the pilot's seat.

John Pelchat wrote:

> Does anyone have information regarding the feasibility of retrofitting
> air-conditioning into a Piper Cherokee, possibly a 6/260? I live in
> the southeast and would be flying toward Florida where heat and
> humidity are a real challenge much of the year. A/C is one of things
> that my wife would consider a must in any aircraft we were to
> purchase.
>
> And as long we are talking about Sixes, I would appreciate any
> opinions regarding the pros and cons of the club seating that is
> available in some planes.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Mike Rapoport]

A seventh seat is availible for the Lance with club seating and I assume
other PA-32s as well. I goes between the middle seats.

Mike
MU-2

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> The club seating has the rear seats further back, so it is easier to get
> into an aft CG situation than with the conventional seating. I don't
> believe a 7th seat is available for the club seating arrangement either.
> I have a conventional seating Six-260. When I was looking, I thought I
> wanted a club seat configuration. After considering it though, I realized
> I didn't really want to have kids sharing foot space... Now that #5 is
> on his way, I'm glad I have the conventional seating, as it allowed me to
> add a 7th seat. The conventional seating is a little tight for middle seat
> leg room, but on the other hand, if you are tall the club seating limits
> the aft positioning of the pilot's seat.
>
> John Pelchat wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have information regarding the feasibility of retrofitting
> > air-conditioning into a Piper Cherokee, possibly a 6/260? I live in
> > the southeast and would be flying toward Florida where heat and
> > humidity are a real challenge much of the year. A/C is one of things
> > that my wife would consider a must in any aircraft we were to
> > purchase.
> >
> > And as long we are talking about Sixes, I would appreciate any
> > opinions regarding the pros and cons of the club seating that is
> > available in some planes.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
>
> --
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
> email
> http://www.andraka.com
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -Benjamin Franklin, 1759
>
>

[Paul Sengupta]

Ah. An explanation. I could fit in a Cherokee 6 fine, but I tried
sitting in the driving seat in a Saratoga and couldn't fit!

Paul

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> The conventional seating is a little tight for middle seat
> leg room, but on the other hand, if you are tall the club seating limits
> the aft positioning of the pilot's seat.