PS Engineering Report

[Jeff]

I finally got my plane out of the shop about 5 days ago, two of the
things I had installed I had no information on so I thought I would let
others know how they turned out incase anyone is thinking of upgrading
theirs.

I had the PS Engineering 7000b audio panel and the PXE7300 AM/FM/CD
player.
My last airplane, I had put in a garmin audio panel and the PS
engineering PCD7100 CD player.

From the few flights I have done so far, the PS engineering audio panel
is much better then the garmin audio panel. Crystal clear intercom and
music.
As for the Radio, its not the satellite radio, just normal AM/FM,
yesterday, I was able to receive a radio station in las vegas, the
entire way out to Lake Havasu (about 80 miles away).
I had always been under the impresion that you would lose the radio
station just outside of the city so this surprised me. But I am
impressed with the ps engineering stuff, very good, alot better then the
garmin one was. When someone would talk on the radio I would not miss a
single word, with my other setup (garmin audio panel) I would miss like
the first second of what ever someone said.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com

[Tom S.]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> I had the PS Engineering 7000b audio panel and the PXE7300 AM/FM/CD
> player.
> My last airplane, I had put in a garmin audio panel and the PS
> engineering PCD7100 CD player.

PSE charges a (apparent) premium that is well worth it.

> From the few flights I have done so far, the PS engineering audio panel
> is much better then the garmin audio panel. Crystal clear intercom and
> music.

> As for the Radio, its not the satellite radio, just normal AM/FM,
> yesterday, I was able to receive a radio station in las vegas, the
> entire way out to Lake Havasu (about 80 miles away).
> I had always been under the impresion that you would lose the radio
> station just outside of the city so this surprised me.

I take it you were listening to an FM station? In the White Mountains north
of Phoenix (Overgaard) I can get a few of the Phoenix FM stations in the
car. That is 113 miles from the transmitter on Phoenix South Mountain.
Overgaard is about 6650 feet MSL.

FM signals are line of sight, so from altitude, you should be able to pick
it up about as far as a VOR signal.

On the other hand, I regularly listen to KOA in Denver (a 50Kw AM station)
after midnight from a clock radio on the headboard of our bed.

>But I am
> impressed with the ps engineering stuff, very good, alot better then the
> garmin one was. When someone would talk on the radio I would not miss a
> single word, with my other setup (garmin audio panel) I would miss like
> the first second of what ever someone said.

[Jeff]

I think my new aduio panel was about the same price as the garmin, if not then
only a couple of dollars difference. Its also alot thinner the garmin one was.
The ISO mode of the PSE audio panel also will mute the radio for the pilot but
it will play for everyone else. With my garmin panel, the ISO didnt work this
way for some reason.

Yes I was listening to star 107.??
The radio works better then the VOR, we have some mountains, around 7000 ft,
between vegas and havasu, I lost the vor signal for needles but never lost the
radio signal. Sunday I go up with my commericial instructor to do some
approaches into the los angeles area, he is going to show me how to do
instrument approaches with the garmin 430 I had installed also. My last 430
didnot have an MSA data box (min safe alt), but this one does. pretty nice
feature but it seems it has a pretty wide area for its MSA.

"Tom S." wrote:

> PSE charges a (apparent) premium that is well worth it.
>
>
>
> I take it you were listening to an FM station? In the White Mountains north
> of Phoenix (Overgaard) I can get a few of the Phoenix FM stations in the
> car. That is 113 miles from the transmitter on Phoenix South Mountain.
> Overgaard is about 6650 feet MSL.
>
> FM signals are line of sight, so from altitude, you should be able to pick
> it up about as far as a VOR signal.
>
> On the other hand, I regularly listen to KOA in Denver (a 50Kw AM station)
> after midnight from a clock radio on the headboard of our bed.

[SeeAndAvoid]

I also recently got a PMA7000B, great unit. I almost got the PXE7300 or the
PAV80 (DVD) but the panel spot I thought I had for it had my altitude
encoder hiding there. No matter, I had decided to hold off as the job got
more and more expensive (nothing to do with the audio panel) but may add it
later.
I had a question about the PXE though since you have it. Have you used it
for MP3's yet? I often make CD's full of MP3's, and depending on your
player, in my case just a car player for now, it doesnt always play the
files in order by name, date, or size. How does the PXE play them?
For now I had a couple 'entertainment' jacks put in, as well as a jack for a
traffic device (Trafficscope) and phone for COM3 (sat/cell). So the kids
can just plug in a walkman in for now, or portable dvd player/laptop.
Chris

PS: did you see the review of this panels predecessor at Avionics West
website? They put their head out the window and the IntelliVox still picked
up the voice and shut off at the right time, incredible.

[Jeff]

The PXE gives you a choice of random play or in order (as you recoreded them)
I havnt played a MP3 disk yet..was enjoying the radio :)
there is a button on the front of it to select which way you want it to play.

No I did not see the review on it, but its a good panel. Love it, much better
then the garmin.
I was thinking of going flying today and should have, Michael Jackson flew into
where my plane is right now (Henderson Exe. Airport).


SeeAndAvoid wrote:

> I also recently got a PMA7000B, great unit. I almost got the PXE7300 or the
> PAV80 (DVD) but the panel spot I thought I had for it had my altitude
> encoder hiding there. No matter, I had decided to hold off as the job got
> more and more expensive (nothing to do with the audio panel) but may add it
> later.
> I had a question about the PXE though since you have it. Have you used it
> for MP3's yet? I often make CD's full of MP3's, and depending on your
> player, in my case just a car player for now, it doesnt always play the
> files in order by name, date, or size. How does the PXE play them?
> For now I had a couple 'entertainment' jacks put in, as well as a jack for a
> traffic device (Trafficscope) and phone for COM3 (sat/cell). So the kids
> can just plug in a walkman in for now, or portable dvd player/laptop.
> Chris
>
> PS: did you see the review of this panels predecessor at Avionics West
> website? They put their head out the window and the IntelliVox still picked
> up the voice and shut off at the right time, incredible.

[Doug Vetter]

Jeff wrote:
<snip>
> From the few flights I have done so far, the PS engineering audio panel
> is much better then the garmin audio panel. Crystal clear intercom and
> music.

I've flown with both, and I bought the PS7000B. Guess that's as good a
review as any. :-)

> As for the Radio, its not the satellite radio, just normal AM/FM
<snip>

Now that you mention it, I'm drooling over Avionics Innovations'
incarnation of the Sirius Satellite receiver. Assuming the subscription
is the same cost as the consumer brands ($10/month) that would go great
with a PS7000B and a few Bose X's. :-)

I'd actually prefer to send my money to Mark for just such a gizmo, but
the interface to their XM based receiver needs to GO (as does the
interface to their CD/MP3 player, while I'm on the subject). Mark, oh,
Mark...why didn't you call me for a design review? hehe :-)

Jeff...good luck with the equipment...I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much
as I have.

Safe flying,

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[Paul Sengupta]

Was there a TFR for that? :-)

Paul

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> I was thinking of going flying today and should have, Michael Jackson flew
into
> where my plane is right now (Henderson Exe. Airport).

[Dave]

I've had both the PSE 7000MS and the Garmin 340. Both are the same
height (1.3"). Both have many similar features (2 music inputs,
etc.). I don't feel that one is far better than the other. But, when
listening to music in the non-mute mode on the Garmin, it still cuts
out the music when ATC transmits. The non-mute only works for
intercom/cabin conversations. I was able to leave the music on all
the time with the PSE 7000MS, which can actually get you in trouble if
you don't have your ATC/music volumes set right.

[W9MV]

Dear Dave:

When you compared the GMA340 and the PMA7000MS, (I'm assuming you had several
of hours of operation with both) I was surprised you didn't mention a
difference between the two units that many consider significant. The GMA340 has
two knobs to provide adjustment for the threshold of all 6 microphones, while
the PMA7000MS doesn't use knobs at all but employees a computer at each
microphone to automatically adjusting the VOX levels at each microphone.

Was it because you fly solo often (which is not uncommon) and setting the
single Pilot's VOX on the GMA340 is no big deal, or that the PMA7000MS
IntelliVox worked well that it wasn't something you thought about?

You mentioned that if the ATC/music volumes aren't set right it can get you in
trouble. That is what we heard from the ACO! (Aircraft Certification Office).
We convinced the engineering examiner that he weren't giving pilots enough
credit and that they would be able to make these adjustments for themselves and
it isn't a safety issue.

Reasons:
1) Karaoke mode was selectable from the front panel
2) Ability to adjust A/C radio in foreground and music in background
3) Pilot has other means to prioritize the radio (ISO mode and Mute)

Had you missed a radio call because you had the Karaoke mode on? If so, can you
describe what the conditions that allowed this to happen? If there is something
we can do to improve our system, you can count on us doing our best to do so.

I appreciate your comments, my questions are not intended as a brash sales
intrusion, but rather a fact finding mission to further our quest for the
altimate audio panel. (pilots have told us that the PMA7000B is it, but we
won't rest on our laurels)

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
www.ps-engineering.com

[Jay Honeck]

> the PMA7000MS doesn't use knobs at all but employees a computer at each
> microphone to automatically adjusting the VOX levels at each microphone.

Hi Mark -- glad you "intruded" here. :-)

A quick question for you -- we have Lightspeed headsets at all four intercom
positions -- a new 25G, a 25XL, and two 15s. It is our experience that the
two front seat positions (with the two newer headsets) are louder in the
intercom than the back two positions.

Obviously it's easy to adjust the headset's individual volume controls to
compensate for this, but is there an adjustment on the PS Engineering unit?
Or should this be accomplished by changing the headset's microphone "gain"?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[SeeAndAvoid]

Glad to see someone from PS Engineering stop in. Just took a long cross
country with the family and have a PIREP on the PMA7000B, and one suggestion
from the wife.

My installation consisted of the PMA7000B, two inputs on the left side of
the panel - one for UNSWITCHED audio (traffic device) and one for a PHONE.
ENTERTAINMENT1 was put by the cigarette lighter, and also a HOOK toggle
switch so Pilot or Copilot position can use the phone. In the back there is
an ENTERTAINMENT2 jack along with two headphone/mic jacks.

On the first couple short trips to check out the unit all was fine. At the
beginning of the long cross country COM3 (phone) upper button was active and
the mic button for COM3 was blinking. The intercom was not working properly
in ALL/CREW mode. I tried to reset the unit repeatedly but there was no
change. That's when I noticed that the HOOK switch was in the up position
(usually down) and may have gotten moved by the wife's knee. I put it down,
no change. I then, just luck and out of ideas, held in the COM3 button for
a few seconds and it cleared up. I never really got an explanation of how
the HOOK switch works and haven't used a phone with it yet. After that all
was well. (After looking at the manual I see it was doing as it was
supposed to do, it was in full duplex mode, in the Copilot position)

The wife used the audio panel more than I did it seems. And she loved it.
She often went back and forth between CREW and and ISO to talk (yell, hehe)
to the kids. This is where I'll mention her suggestion: she'd like those
little metal switches to have something rubber or plastic on the ends. Sort
of like airliners have those little condom looking things on their landing
light switches, etc. I guess the only thing I wasn't sure I liked was that
whenever she'd go into the ISO position, ENT1 would cut out for me. I had a
bunch of Phil Hendrie (www.philhendrieshow.com , best show on radio) MP3's
in my Ipaq and was listening to them and would get interrupted. Being that
I didn't read the manual much, if at all, I didn't know until messing around
with the buttons that I could hear both ATC and ENT1 just by pushing in the
ICS button. I did that during slow ATC times, and just made ATC louder but
ENT1 lower but still listenable.

Volume levels. This is hard to guage as I had an ANR headset, the wife had
the same headset but the non-ANR/mono version, and the kids have a couple
cheapos. To me the volume was plenty loud with the inner knob at about 10
to 11 o'clock (40% I'd guess) position. I had the outer knob way up, like 3
o'clock position. The wife couldn't hear ENT1 as well as I could, but
everything else fine. ENT2 was the dvd player for the kids, and they were
happy with the volume. I'd hear ENT2 bleeding through, along with the kids
voices, but at a very very low level, the wife couldn't hear either. Also
the sound coming through ENT1, while decent, had some noise coming through
as well. A low buzzing sound that would repeat over and over to the beat of
my tail rotating beacon, that kind of rhythm. But it had nothing to do with
the beacon or any lights, or the DME, as I'd turn things off to try to
figure out where it was coming from. This is a C182, so it wasn't some twin
engine harmonic thing either. Along with that was a steady high pitch tone.
This audio was coming through an Ipaq running Anywhere Map and Real Audio
player playing the file. Also there is a Bluetooth GPS feeding the Ipaq,
it's possible the noise was mostly coming from one or both of those units.

Next time I'm at the avionics shop that installed this I'm going to have a
couple things looked at: 1) the manual says in the ISO mode the pilot
should hear ENT1 at a muted level, I wasn't hearing it at all. 2) the bleed
through of ENT2 and back passengers to the pilot position, and 3) installing
a remote switch for Karaoke mode for the back passengers. They didn't
complain about it, but I assume anytime the kids spoke ENT2 would mute, just
like us in the front and ENT1, but we have the ICS button to take care of
that, they don't. I'd also put second ENT2 input on the other headset jack,
don't ask, it's a kid thing.

Otherwise we're very happy with this unit. The wife said it's the best
money we've put into the airplane. After the fact we're glad we held off on
the PS Engineering DVD player. I'm sure it's also a great product, but
probably not functional for us. Why have the control of the DVD or CD in
the front when the passengers in the back will be the only ones using it.
On this trip we used a portable CD player and a laptop with DVD to keep em
busy back there. We'll probably get one of those portable DVD players and a
case that attaches it to the seat back. That way they have a screen, the
controls, and even a remote control. Up front we just want audio, wife
wouldn't mind video at times, but where to put it?

Question for the PSE rep, I'd like the PXE7300, but now seeing how ENT1 and
ENT2 work, would only the pilot/copilot be able to hear it? Same question
for your DVD unit (cant find name online at avionics shops and your website
is down). If it's wired for the back passengers, can the front still hear
it? Thanks for a great product!

Chris

[W9MV]

Hi Jay:

Sounds as though you have our PMA7000MS series (i.e. not the new PMA7000B).

There are two (Left and Right) screwdriver volume adjustments you can make,
you'll need to refer to the installation manual (located on our web site) to
determine which holes and what direction to turn the potentiometer to
increase/decrease the passengers volume.

Our new PMA7000B has a concentric knob allowing individual volume control from
the front panel of both the crew and the passengers.

Hope this helps!

Sincerely,
Mark

[Snowbird]

(W9MV) wrote in message >...

> I appreciate your comments, my questions are not intended as a brash sales
> intrusion, but rather a fact finding mission to further our quest for the
> altimate audio panel. (pilots have told us that the PMA7000B is it, but we
> won't rest on our laurels)

Hey, Mark,

Have you ever considered coming up with a "modern age" audio panel
which integrates other functions?

We don't have ADF, DME, etc in our plane. So switches allowing us
to route their audio output to speaker or phones seem a waste of
space.

Space which perhaps could be put to use integrating the
annunciators and switches needed for an IFR GPS into an audio
panel design?

Just a thought...

Best,
Sydney

[W9MV]

Dear Chris:

Thanks for your post. I'll try to be brief in my answers:

"HOOK toggle switch so Pilot or Copilot position can use the phone."

Actually, the hook switch, when installed, will allow the copilot to make a
private phone call, or join in with the pilot. the pilot's "hook switch"
actually is the Com 3 mic pushbutton

"At the beginning of the long cross country COM3 (phone) upper button was
active and the mic button for COM3 was blinking. The intercom was not working
properly in ALL/CREW mode."

It appears that the PMA7000B is working properly, when you are in the telephone
mode, the intercom function between the pilot and copilot is deactivated.
However, the passengers are free to continue to communicate.

"The wife used the audio panel more than I did it seems. And she loved it. She
often went back and forth between CREW and and ISO to talk (yell, hehe) to the
kids. This is where I'll mention her suggestion: she'd like those little metal
switches to have something rubber or plastic on the ends. Sort of like
airliners have those little condom looking things on their landing light
switches, etc."

EXCELLENT suggestion! Let me see if I can get some slide on rubber covers. Do
you have a preference in color? White seems to be a standard.


"I guess the only thing I wasn't sure I liked was that whenever she'd go into
the ISO position, ENT1 would cut out for me."

Again, the PMA7000B is behaving correctly. We had more recommendations to have
the entertainment turn off when in ISO mode for the pilot than the other way
around.

"Volume levels. I had the outer knob way up, like 3 o'clock position. The
wife couldn't hear ENT1 as well as I could, but everything else fine."

This is clear evidence that the Bose headset is more efficient in using the
power from the intercom than your wife's headset. (Xmas is coming up, and I
just know she would LOVE to have an equivalent headset as her husband, no?)

"ENT1, while decent, had some noise coming through as well. A low buzzing
sound that would repeat over and over to the beat of my tail rotating beacon,
that kind of rhythm. But it had nothing to do with
the beacon or any lights, or the DME, as I'd turn things off to try to
figure out where it was coming from."

The 182, if I'm not mistaken, has its battery in the rear of the aircraft. The
engineers at Cessna felt that using the airframe for the ground return path
saved weight (no copper cable) and certainly aluminum is an excellent conductor
(ask all those home owners who wired their homes with aluminum in the '80's).

Anyway, one strong possibility is that the noise is coming from your charging
system, and that would be because the who airframe has the noise supperimposed
on it from the return charging current.

Are you using your cigarette ligther adapter to power your entertainment
device? If you are, USE BATTERIES, otherwise you will have ground loop noise
from the power source.

"The manual says in the ISO mode the pilot should hear ENT1 at a muted level, I
wasn't hearing it at all."

Again, sounds like it is working the way it is designed, you'll notice our mute
level is very low. Without the engine running sometime (preferably on the
ground) get your entertainment running, speak into the mic, and listen to the
mute level, it's way down.

"The bleed through of ENT2 and back passengers to the pilot position"

Now this is an anomoly, because the isolation of Ent 2 and passengers is even
greater than the mute level of Ent 1. There may be some wiring issue here. I'll
need to speak to your installer if this level is annoying.

"Question for the PSE rep, I'd like the PXE7300, but now seeing how ENT1 and
ENT2 work, would only the pilot/copilot be able to hear it?"

Yes, but only if you didn't hook the PXE7300 output to Ent 2 input.

"Same question for your DVD unit"

Actually, the PAV80 is different, it has two seperate outputs and does working
in a multifunction fashion. What I mean is that the crew could listen to say
your external music device (through the PAV80) while the kids could what their
favorite DVD. Or, maybe mom and dad want to play their favorite MP3 songs in
the PAV80, and the kids could plug in their video game into the PAV80 and use
the PAV80's display.

The PAV80 is an awesome, and probably is one of our biggest achievement (the
IntelliVox being another.)

Thanks for taking the time and letting me know about your setup, it is most
certainly one of the most high tech ones I have read about.

Let me know if I can be of any service.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.

Chris

[W9MV]

Dear Sydney:

The reason we keep ADF and DME is that it's a requirement of our OEM's.

While the use of ADF and DME are becoming more of a rarity with the advent of
approved GPS approaches, they are still used extensively in the international
market.

However, PS Engineering is the only company that has dedicated a pushbutton for
AUX, which can serve as a switched input of your choosing.

And don't forget about our DRAWS option, it's the only one in the world, and
ties into GPS quite nicely.

So we like to think we are making a modern day audio panels, keeping the things
we need to while bringing new capability to our after market customers.

And I can promise you that you will continue to see innovation from us, it's
what we do.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.

[G.R. Patterson III]

W9MV wrote:
>
> Hope this helps!

Now that's great service. You can tell any of your management that questions the
amount of time you spend here that, if my intercom bites the dust, one of yours
will be replacing it. Hey, if I come into some money, I may not wait!

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[W9MV]

Dear George:

Yes, that is why we employed key caps. We can label ($20 per key cap) the key
caps with any three letters you desire.

Mark

[G.R. Patterson III]

W9MV wrote:
>
> The reason we keep ADF and DME is that it's a requirement of our OEM's.

Would it be possible to market an optional faceplate?

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[Gerry Caron]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> W9MV wrote:
> >
> > Hope this helps!
>
> Now that's great service. You can tell any of your management that
questions the
> amount of time you spend here that, if my intercom bites the dust, one of
yours
> will be replacing it. Hey, if I come into some money, I may not wait!
>
George,

You just did. Mark IS management, president, owner, and all-around good
guy, plus a few other things as well.

Gerry

[Jeff]

Mark
7000B audio panel and the PXE 7300 is a great combination. I wanted the PAV80 but
couldnt find any information on how the screen for the DVD player is installed or
where it would be located.

Radio stations are crystal clear, in the mountains of southern nevada, over 100 NM
away from the radio station, my installer placed the antenna inside the airplane,
not outside of it. My opinion is I like it alot better then the garmin GMA 340 I
had in my old airplane. I dont have to turn down the radio when someone calls me
or ask them to repeat anything like I did with the garmin GMA 340 and PMA7000CD
(the cd player only version)

Jeff

W9MV wrote:

>
> I appreciate your comments, my questions are not intended as a brash sales
> intrusion, but rather a fact finding mission to further our quest for the
> altimate audio panel. (pilots have told us that the PMA7000B is it, but we
> won't rest on our laurels)
>
> Sincerely,
> Mark Scheuer
> PS Engineering, Inc.
> www.ps-engineering.com

[Jay Honeck]

Thanks, Mark!

We love our CD/Intercom, but...do you have a unit that combines:

- Audio Panel
- Intercom
- CD Player
- MP3 Player
- AM/FM/XM Radio?

If so, I'm trading mine in! ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Blanche]

Mark:

When you find the little rubber gadgets that fit over the ISO switch,
would you please post the details? I'd love to have one (I've got
the 4 place unit) and seem to use that switch more and more often!

Thanks!

[Thomas Borchert]

G.R.,

> You can tell any of your management
>

The person posting is Mark Scheuer. Have you ever wondered what the S
in PS Engineering might stand for? ;-) Yes, they do care for their
customers.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[W9MV]

Just about!

The intercom/audio panel would be the PMA7000B, the CD/MP3/MP3Pro/AM/FM/Sirius
Satellite Radio would be the PXE7300 with Option SR.

Total MAP cost? $3789

There really isn't any advantage of putting the units into one chassis. In
fact, the unit would become taller in the panel, from the current total height
of 3.25" to 3.5".

Thanks for the great report Jay!

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
www.ps-engineering.com

[W9MV]

Sure will, as soon as I get an answer on what color the rubber cover should be,
I'll get them on order.

Mark

[Jim Weir]

And there is nobody in aviation that I have more respect for than Mark. We may
be competitors in the avionics field, but competition and respect are two
powerful allies in this case.

Jim



Thomas Borchert >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->G.R.,
->
->> You can tell any of your management
->>
->
->The person posting is Mark Scheuer.





Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[SeeAndAvoid]

"W9MV" wrote
> Do you have a preference in color? White seems to be a standard.

When I asked the wife (being it was her idea) she said "red" (favorite
color), I automatically thought black to blend in with the unit. White
would probably work too, but what would be the best color to also work at
night? To take advantage of the panels interior lighting? That'd probably
be the best choice. Maybe in the future those can be internally lit. The
wife also mentioned the problem (minor, mind you) she had was that the
switches didn't stick out very far and she was afraid of pushing one of the
buttons next to it. So tackiness with rubber/plastic and a little more
length I guess is what she meant. I supposed it'd be a good idea for the
marker switch as well right above it.

> The 182, if I'm not mistaken, has its battery in the rear of the aircraft.
The
> engineers at Cessna felt that using the airframe for the ground return
path
> saved weight (no copper cable) and certainly aluminum is an excellent
> conductor (ask all those home owners who wired their homes with
> aluminum in the '80's). Anyway, one strong possibility is that the noise
is
> coming from your charging system, and that would be because the who
> airframe has the noise supperimposed on it from the return charging
current.

Now that you mention it I've read that somewhere else, too. That's probably
the case. Minor thing. I forgot to ask the kids if they heard a similar
sound during their CD/DVD playback through ENT2.

> Are you using your cigarette ligther adapter to power your entertainment
> device? If you are, USE BATTERIES, otherwise you will have ground
> loop noise from the power source.

Yes, it was powered from the cig lighter. Being it's an Ipaq with internal
batteries, I'll try it unplugged. The Ipaq itself may put out some noise.
I should also mention, right above the audio panel was a TrafficScope, which
should be only a receiver, not emitting a signal.

> "The manual says in the ISO mode the pilot should hear ENT1 at a muted
> level, I wasn't hearing it at all."
>
> Again, sounds like it is working the way it is designed, you'll notice our
> mute level is very low. Without the engine running sometime (preferably on
> the ground) get your entertainment running, speak into the mic, and listen
to > the mute level, it's way down.

Now I'm a little confused. Earlier you said..."We had more recommendations
to have the entertainment turn off when in ISO mode for the pilot than the
other way around."

Are we talking about two different modes?

> "The bleed through of ENT2 and back passengers to the pilot position"
> Now this is an anomoly, because the isolation of Ent 2 and passengers is
> even greater than the mute level of Ent 1. There may be some wiring issue
> here. I'll need to speak to your installer if this level is annoying.

Actually I was going to forward my original post and your reply to my
installer to let him know how it's going so far. He'll be happy to see what
you wrote ..."it is most certainly one of the most high tech ones I have
read about."
We emailed and phoned back and forth alot before this work was done to
really iron out what I needed. They did a thorough job on time and on
budget, really happy with their work so far. (AvWest - Ft. Collins, CO).
As far as the level of annoyance, my son had to have his mouth right on the
mic and going at it pretty loud, or it had to be a really loud scene in the
DVD. When I asked the wife why I wasn't hearing it all the time, she said
much of the time the kids unplugged the mic portion of their headset. I'm
pretty sure when their mic wasnt plugged in, no sound bled through. Like I
said, those are cheapo headsets they have, but able to jump the intercom
while in CREW mode?

After I wrote my report I got a KidREP on the setup. I was wondering why
the kids would get upset at my wife when she'd go into ISO mode to talk to
them. It'd cut out their ENT2 input, so another reason to get that Karaoke
mode switch for the back of the airplane. At first didn't think it was that
big a deal, I was advised differently.

> Actually, the PAV80 is different, it has two seperate outputs and does
> working in a multifunction fashion. What I mean is that the crew could
> listen to say your external music device (through the PAV80) while the
kids >could what their favorite DVD. Or, maybe mom and dad want to play
their >favorite MP3 songs in the PAV80, and the kids could plug in their
video >game into the PAV80 and use the PAV80's display.

Uh oh. We'd just decided to get a portable DVD player, but it doesnt let
them play video games on it (just when I convinced them they could live
without it every now and then). I like how the PAV80 separates the outputs,
that's slick. May have to rethink that. And if the kids find out I can
hook up more than one display, and if the wife finds out she can have her
own display, too.... Now if only it can be like the airlines and have a
moving map of the flight, etc. If theyre quiet and happy, we're very happy.
This is mostly a cross country machine, 3 hour legs are the norm. Otherwise
alot of this wouldn't matter so much. 7 & 10 year olds aren't always the
easiest to keep patient that long, this setup sure helped.

> Let me know if I can be of any service.
> Sincerely,
> Mark Scheuer
> PS Engineering, Inc.

Already have, thanks for your response and your product. I'd been looking
into the options for a couple years. Went back and forth between the
GMA340, the Apollo unit (that you make apparently) and the PMA6000M.
Luckily I waited. A few avionics shops I talked to directly steered me
towards PSE, glad I took their advice.
Chris

[W9MV]

Hi Chris:

OK, I'm glad the red is not top on your list because we try not to use red in
the cockpit unless it is for a warning indication.

Black would look the best, IMHO, but I think it would also make the two
switches blend in too much and would be easy to miss.

I think the best for night viewing and probably would look OK cosmetically
would be white.

So, that's what I'll get. You can send me your mailing address off line if
you'd like. Expect this to take a week or two.

Thanks
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.

[Jay Honeck]

> I think the best for night viewing and probably would look OK cosmetically
> would be white.
>
> So, that's what I'll get. You can send me your mailing address off line if
> you'd like. Expect this to take a week or two.

Me too, me too?!

You're talking about the pilot-isolate/all/crew switch, right? It would be
great to have a little rubber extender on that switch!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Thomas Borchert]

Mark,

> I think the best for night viewing and probably would look OK cosmetically
> would be white.
>

What you really need is white fluorescent (or whatever the word is for
material that has an afterglow in the dark after being exposed to other
light sources) ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[EDR]

In article <u9mzb.410877$Fm2.417144@attbi_s04>, Jay Honeck
> wrote:

> You're talking about the pilot-isolate/all/crew switch, right? It would be
> great to have a little rubber extender on that switch!

Doesn't "Rat Shaq" sell a polybag of those things?
Red, yellow, blue, green, white, black.

[Jim Weir]

Oh, here we go again...Jay on the newsgroups wanting to buy a rubber extender...


Jim

->In article <u9mzb.410877$Fm2.417144@attbi_s04>, Jay Honeck
> wrote:
->
->> You're talking about the pilot-isolate/all/crew switch, right? It would be
->> great to have a little rubber extender on that switch!



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Blanche]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
>Me too, me too?!
>
>You're talking about the pilot-isolate/all/crew switch, right? It would be
>great to have a little rubber extender on that switch!

Hey! I asked first!

Actually, I'd be happy just to find out the product number of the little
rubber thingy and who makes them.

[Russell Kent]

SeeAndAvoid wrote:

> Maybe in the future those [switches] can be internally lit.

You mean like with something like these?

http://www.nkkswitches.com/switchcategory.asp?S3=1
(look at the G series of ultra mini illuminated toggle switches)

Russell Kent

[W9MV]

Done.

If you could send me your mailing address to my email address
I'll see to it you'll get one.

Mark

[Jay Honeck]

> Oh, here we go again...Jay on the newsgroups wanting to buy a rubber
extender...

Glow in the dark, no less!
;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Don Tuite]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:46:33 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> Oh, here we go again...Jay on the newsgroups wanting to buy a rubber
>extender...
>
>Glow in the dark, no less!
> ;-)

Playing Where's Waldo, eh?

Don

[EDR]

In article >, Don Tuite
> wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:46:33 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Oh, here we go again...Jay on the newsgroups wanting to buy a rubber
> >extender...
> >
> >Glow in the dark, no less!
> > ;-)
>
> Playing Where's Waldo, eh?

You have to hunt for it???

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > Oh, here we go again...Jay on the newsgroups wanting to buy a rubber
> extender...
>
> Glow in the dark, no less!

Try www.getabiggertonker.com

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[Montblack]

("EDR" wrote)
> > >> Oh, here we go again...Jay on the newsgroups wanting to buy a rubber
extender...

> > >Glow in the dark, no less!

> > Playing Where's Waldo, eh?

> You have to hunt for it???


Check the flight bag - might contain a battery powered backup ...."unit".

<g>

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif

[Dave]

Hi Mark -

thanks for taking the time to inquire -

To elaborate more - I did appreciate the intelliVOX feature on the
7000MS. And, I did notice the difference when I started using the
GMA-340 because I did find myself adjusting squelch more often. Not a
huge deal, but a very nice feature of your unit.

regarding karaoke mode - I never missed an ATC call, but a few times
might have. In someways I do wish Garmin included that feature.

Finally, my now having a Garmin instead of a PSE is because the plane
with the 7000MS was sold and I bought a step-up to another plane that
had a newly installed garmin stack. You might think about making a
tray compatible swap out for Garmin 340 owners to move to a 7000xxx
model....perhaps even a trade-up program.....

Regards,
Dave


(W9MV) wrote in message >...
> Dear Dave:
>
> When you compared the GMA340 and the PMA7000MS, (I'm assuming you had several
> of hours of operation with both) I was surprised you didn't mention a
> difference between the two units that many consider significant. The GMA340 has
> two knobs to provide adjustment for the threshold of all 6 microphones, while
> the PMA7000MS doesn't use knobs at all but employees a computer at each
> microphone to automatically adjusting the VOX levels at each microphone.
>
> Was it because you fly solo often (which is not uncommon) and setting the
> single Pilot's VOX on the GMA340 is no big deal, or that the PMA7000MS
> IntelliVox worked well that it wasn't something you thought about?
>
> You mentioned that if the ATC/music volumes aren't set right it can get you in
> trouble. That is what we heard from the ACO! (Aircraft Certification Office).
> We convinced the engineering examiner that he weren't giving pilots enough
> credit and that they would be able to make these adjustments for themselves and
> it isn't a safety issue.
>
> Reasons:
> 1) Karaoke mode was selectable from the front panel
> 2) Ability to adjust A/C radio in foreground and music in background
> 3) Pilot has other means to prioritize the radio (ISO mode and Mute)
>
> Had you missed a radio call because you had the Karaoke mode on? If so, can you
> describe what the conditions that allowed this to happen? If there is something
> we can do to improve our system, you can count on us doing our best to do so.
>
> I appreciate your comments, my questions are not intended as a brash sales
> intrusion, but rather a fact finding mission to further our quest for the
> altimate audio panel. (pilots have told us that the PMA7000B is it, but we
> won't rest on our laurels)
>
> Sincerely,
> Mark Scheuer
> PS Engineering, Inc.
> www.ps-engineering.com

[W9MV]

Excellent suggestion Dave, about a plug and play unit with the GMA340.

As far as trade ins, we really would rely on our dealer network to work those
details, the manufacturer typically isn't set up (or at least we aren't) to
sell used equipment.

Question, assuming you could get say, $800 or more for the sale of your current
GMA340 on ebay, would you be willing to invest $800 or less (depending upon how
much you get from the sale of the GMA340) for such a plug and play unit?

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
www.ps-engineering.com

[Jeff]

black or red, red would stand out, black would go with the unit.

W9MV wrote:

> Sure will, as soon as I get an answer on what color the rubber cover should be,
> I'll get them on order.
>
> Mark

[Dave]

(W9MV) wrote in message >...
> Excellent suggestion Dave, about a plug and play unit with the GMA340.
>
> As far as trade ins, we really would rely on our dealer network to work those
> details, the manufacturer typically isn't set up (or at least we aren't) to
> sell used equipment.
>
> Question, assuming you could get say, $800 or more for the sale of your current
> GMA340 on ebay, would you be willing to invest $800 or less (depending upon how
> much you get from the sale of the GMA340) for such a plug and play unit?
>
> Mark Scheuer
> PS Engineering, Inc.
> www.ps-engineering.com

Hi Mark - That might be tempting. The GMA340 was about $1200, if I
recall correctly. So, the step up price shouldn't be any more than
the difference between the used sale price and the new 7000 unit.

My biggest beef with the Avionics industry, in general, is that it
seems a lot of mfg's have gone their own way, leaving comptibility in
the dust. This applies more to the datalink technologies, with King,
Garmin/Apollo and Avidyne all going their own ways. It would have
been more prudent, and probably cheaper for everyone in the long run,
for these companies to work with the FAA to develop a superior
datalink technology they can all use. Kind of like the HDTV battles
that consumed the 90's. At least now we have a standard that all TV
manufacturers adhere to.

With audio panels, it's not quite as bad. It seems you and Garmin
(and King, to a degree - even though their unit is yours with their
faceplate) really have given the GA market good choices.

[Stu Gotts]

Dave;
From the discussions I've heard of, the avionics manufacturers view
working with the FAA as a great hinderance on what advancements they
are permitted to make. Antiquated rules and standards being enforced
by people without backbones or the desire to weather the criticism
that are sure to follow with whatever their decisions seem to be. I'm
sure we've all seen what can happen to a project when it gets hung up
in the bureaucracy , subject to a pseudo czar that may have a hardon
for a certain company, or worse, one that likes to fill their own
pockets for favors. With the degree of technology on the march as it
is, we the consumer must dictate not only to the feds, but to the
manufacturers what we desire to spend out money on.

On 7 Dec 2003 09:10:13 -0800, (Dave) wrote:

(W9MV) wrote in message >...
>> Excellent suggestion Dave, about a plug and play unit with the GMA340.
>>
>> As far as trade ins, we really would rely on our dealer network to work those
>> details, the manufacturer typically isn't set up (or at least we aren't) to
>> sell used equipment.
>>
>> Question, assuming you could get say, $800 or more for the sale of your current
>> GMA340 on ebay, would you be willing to invest $800 or less (depending upon how
>> much you get from the sale of the GMA340) for such a plug and play unit?
>>
>> Mark Scheuer
>> PS Engineering, Inc.
>> www.ps-engineering.com
>
>Hi Mark - That might be tempting. The GMA340 was about $1200, if I
>recall correctly. So, the step up price shouldn't be any more than
>the difference between the used sale price and the new 7000 unit.
>
>My biggest beef with the Avionics industry, in general, is that it
>seems a lot of mfg's have gone their own way, leaving comptibility in
>the dust. This applies more to the datalink technologies, with King,
>Garmin/Apollo and Avidyne all going their own ways. It would have
>been more prudent, and probably cheaper for everyone in the long run,
>for these companies to work with the FAA to develop a superior
>datalink technology they can all use. Kind of like the HDTV battles
>that consumed the 90's. At least now we have a standard that all TV
>manufacturers adhere to.
>
>With audio panels, it's not quite as bad. It seems you and Garmin
>(and King, to a degree - even though their unit is yours with their
>faceplate) really have given the GA market good choices.