Anyone know how to update an old Loran database?

[Tom Jackson]

I have looked around on the 'net, and cannot find any reference to being
able to update an old Apollo loran database (like can be done with the
modern GPS units.)

I have an Apollo 604, with the latest update (1999, I think.)

It seems to me, that there must be some tech-wizards out there who could
figure out how to update such an animal -- i.e., there are a number of
places to get the "data" (FAA, DAFIF, etc.) - is there a way to configure it
in a file on a PC, then through some sort of interface upload it to the
"Flybrary"?

I think the Flybrary is probably some sort of EPROM (eraseable, programmable
read-only memory) that should be capable of being updated, if one understood
the protocol, data formats, physical connections, etc.

On the surface, this sounds doable - is it merely a pipe-dream?

At least, it could be a fun project for someone over these fine winter
months!

[Ben Sego]

Tom Jackson wrote:
>
> I have an Apollo 604, with the latest update (1999, I think.)
>
> It seems to me, that there must be some tech-wizards out there who could
> figure out how to update such an animal -- i.e., there are a number of
> places to get the "data" (FAA, DAFIF, etc.) - is there a way to configure it
> in a file on a PC, then through some sort of interface upload it to the
> "Flybrary"?
<snip>

> On the surface, this sounds doable - is it merely a pipe-dream?
>
> At least, it could be a fun project for someone over these fine winter
> months!


It's certainly possible, and it would be an interesting project. It
would have to be done for the project interest. Do you happen to have a
spare one lying about?

B.S.

[Ben Jackson]

In article <W0Vxb.249031$9E1.1347467@attbi_s52>,
Tom Jackson > wrote:
>
>I have an Apollo 604, with the latest update (1999, I think.)

Does your 604 lock on? I'm in the Pacific Northwest (GRI 9940?) and
bought a plane with a 604. It doesn't seem to acquire more than one
station (only one letter will capitalize).

I've just left it turned off but I can't tell if it's due to an old
database or bad antenna or what.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Tom Jackson]

My 604 works great. Just has old data.

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:NJXxb.344043$HS4.2929329@attbi_s01...
> In article <W0Vxb.249031$9E1.1347467@attbi_s52>,
> Tom Jackson > wrote:
> >
> >I have an Apollo 604, with the latest update (1999, I think.)
>
> Does your 604 lock on? I'm in the Pacific Northwest (GRI 9940?) and
> bought a plane with a 604. It doesn't seem to acquire more than one
> station (only one letter will capitalize).
>
> I've just left it turned off but I can't tell if it's due to an old
> database or bad antenna or what.
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> >
> http://www.ben.com/

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Tom Jackson" > said:
>I have looked around on the 'net, and cannot find any reference to being
>able to update an old Apollo loran database (like can be done with the

The best "update" on a panel mount Loran is to rip it out and give youself
another 2 or so pounds of useful load.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Using vi is kind of like having sex. The first time to use it, it's kind
of awkward, but after using for a while you start to get good at it and
enjoy it. -- Eric Merkel

[Tom Jackson]

What is wrong with a perfectly good piece of equipment, that religiously
scans through a series of pages, and continuously updates me on my course,
ground speed, distance to waypoint, ETE, etc.? As long as the system is
still up and running, I believe it is well worth the 2 pounds of useful
load - at least as a back-up to all of the other forms of navigation that I
use (VOR, handheld GPS, pilotage, etc.)


"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Tom Jackson" > said:
> >I have looked around on the 'net, and cannot find any reference to being
> >able to update an old Apollo loran database (like can be done with the
>
> The best "update" on a panel mount Loran is to rip it out and give youself
> another 2 or so pounds of useful load.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> Using vi is kind of like having sex. The first time to use it, it's kind
> of awkward, but after using for a while you start to get good at it and
> enjoy it. -- Eric Merkel

[G.R. Patterson III]

Ben Jackson wrote:
>
> I've just left it turned off but I can't tell if it's due to an old
> database or bad antenna or what.

LORANs work just fine with old databases. Many of them have an internal battery,
however, and when this goes dead, they don't work.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[G.R. Patterson III]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
> The best "update" on a panel mount Loran is to rip it out and give youself
> another 2 or so pounds of useful load.

Maybe you should take a look at the thread entitled "GPS Degradation in ZDC/ZNY
areas". My LORAN is old, but it has two real good things going for it - it works
well, and it's paid for.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[[email protected]]

I have both a II Morrow 618 Loran and a Garmin GPS in my aircraft.
The user interface on the Loran is MUCH MUCH easer to use than the
newer Garmin GPS. The Garmin interface is NOT intuitive and takes at
least twice as long to enter a go to point on the Garmin as it does on
the II Morrow loran. The GPS and the Loran always agree within less
than 1/2 mile so why get rid of a good navigation unit?

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:29:24 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

>In a previous article, "Tom Jackson" > said:
>>I have looked around on the 'net, and cannot find any reference to being
>>able to update an old Apollo loran database (like can be done with the
>
>The best "update" on a panel mount Loran is to rip it out and give youself
>another 2 or so pounds of useful load.

[Jerry Springer]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
> Ben Jackson wrote:
>
>>I've just left it turned off but I can't tell if it's due to an old
>>database or bad antenna or what.
>
>
> LORANs work just fine with old databases. Many of them have an internal battery,
> however, and when this goes dead, they don't work.
>
> George Patterson
> Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
> hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

That is true, my Flybuddy quit working and I called Applo/Garmin/UPS to see how
much it would be to fix it and they said $250.00 just to look at it and replace
the batteries. I opened it up myself and found the internal batteries. (there
are two in the Flybuddy) I got the numbers of the batteries and then went on the
internet and found the same batteries for about $8.00. It was a very simple
matter to un-solder the old batteries and solder in the new batteries. Now my
Flybuddy GPS works as good as it did new.

Jerry

[Mike Adams]

I find this very disappointing. I have a 604 which works very well - always
locks on, and accurate. Aside from the database being out of date, my only
complaint is how hard it is to use - that user interface with just 6 buttons
and a knob is very limiting. I was hoping that upgrading to a panel mount GPS
would not only improve the performance and be IFR capable, but also be easier
to use for the basic stuff. For example, to do a direct-to on the 604 requires
the following:
1. Page down to the waypoint mode
2. Scroll through and select the appropriate geographical area
3. Select the desired waypoint by scrolling each character of the identifier
with the knob.
4. When the waypoint is selected, press the TO key.
5. Page down to the POS mode, displaying present position
6. Press the FROM key.
7. Start the process over, because by now you'll have already passed the
entered point :-)

Mike

In article >, wrote:
>I have both a II Morrow 618 Loran and a Garmin GPS in my aircraft.
>The user interface on the Loran is MUCH MUCH easer to use than the
>newer Garmin GPS. The Garmin interface is NOT intuitive and takes at
>least twice as long to enter a go to point on the Garmin as it does on
>the II Morrow loran. The GPS and the Loran always agree within less
>than 1/2 mile so why get rid of a good navigation unit?
>
>On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:29:24 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
>Tomblin) wrote:
>
>>In a previous article, "Tom Jackson" > said:
>>>I have looked around on the 'net, and cannot find any reference to being
>>>able to update an old Apollo loran database (like can be done with the
>>
>>The best "update" on a panel mount Loran is to rip it out and give youself
>>another 2 or so pounds of useful load.
>

[Tom Jackson]

Here is a response I received from someone at GarminAT:
****************************
Hi Tom,

Sorry but there is simply no means to update the data. The required
equipment to "burn" the data to the eproms is not generally available. Even
if it was, the format of the data is proprietary and not available to the
public. With the age of the eproms it's very normal for at lest one of them
to not accept data any longer as well. Once you were to try to load, and
fail, the unit would be rendered useless. The proms are no longer available
from any source so it just isn't worth the time or effort. I can only
recommend that you simply continue to use it as it is and load needed
waypoints as user created waypoints.

Regards,
John Hendrickson
Technical Support
**********************************************

"Tom Jackson" > wrote in message
news:W0Vxb.249031$9E1.1347467@attbi_s52...
> I have looked around on the 'net, and cannot find any reference to being
> able to update an old Apollo loran database (like can be done with the
> modern GPS units.)
>
> I have an Apollo 604, with the latest update (1999, I think.)
>
> It seems to me, that there must be some tech-wizards out there who could
> figure out how to update such an animal -- i.e., there are a number of
> places to get the "data" (FAA, DAFIF, etc.) - is there a way to configure
it
> in a file on a PC, then through some sort of interface upload it to the
> "Flybrary"?
>
> I think the Flybrary is probably some sort of EPROM (eraseable,
programmable
> read-only memory) that should be capable of being updated, if one
understood
> the protocol, data formats, physical connections, etc.
>
> On the surface, this sounds doable - is it merely a pipe-dream?
>
> At least, it could be a fun project for someone over these fine winter
> months!
>
>
>
>
>

[paul k. sanchez]

>I have looked around on the 'net, and cannot find any reference to being able
to update an old Apollo loran database (like can be done with the modern GPS
units.)
>
>I have an Apollo 604, with the latest update (1999, I think.)
>
>It seems to me, that there must be some tech-wizards out there who could
figure out how to update such an animal -- i.e., there are a number of places
to get the "data" (FAA, DAFIF, etc.) - is there a way to configure it in a file
on a PC, then through some sort of interface upload it to the "Flybrary"?
>
>I think the Flybrary is probably some sort of EPROM (eraseable, programmable
read-only memory) that should be capable of being updated, if one understood
the protocol, data formats, physical connections, etc.
>
>On the surface, this sounds doable - is it merely a pipe-dream?
>
>At least, it could be a fun project for someone over these fine winter months!


Tom:
Strong suggestion is to buy the Apollo Flybuddy Plus 800 loran that uses a data
card. That way you get the data from jeppesen as often as you want. The current
ebay bid on a 800 plus flybuddy is $30, a lot less than what you would pay for
the equipment to update the eproms on your current unit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26436&it
em=2446672098


paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
2011 south perimeter road, suite g
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-7135
305-389-1742 wireless
954-776-0527 fax
954-345-4276 home/fax