Wing Stall

[PaulaJay1]

I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about the
wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left wing
- four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
forward of the trailing edge.

At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the longest
time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just before
the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the four
out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a series of
scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept streaming.

I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the occasional
pilot.

Chuck

[Roger Long]

At last! A reason for having the wings on the bottom of an airplane:)

--
Roger Long
PaulaJay1 > wrote in message
...
>
> I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about
the
> wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
> Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left
wing
> - four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
> forward of the trailing edge.
>
> At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the
longest
> time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just
before
> the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the
four
> out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a
series of
> scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept
streaming.
>
> I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the
occasional
> pilot.
>
> Chuck

[Nathan Young]

(PaulaJay1) wrote in message >...
> I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about the
> wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
> Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left wing
> - four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
> forward of the trailing edge.
>
> At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the longest
> time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just before
> the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the four
> out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a series of
> scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept streaming.

Cool test Chuck! I assume the ribbons were straight back in normal
flight? What did they do during the stall? Sideways, upwards,
forwards, random?

-Nathan

[Dashi]

"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
...
>
> I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about
the
> wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
> Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left
wing
> - four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
> forward of the trailing edge.
>
> At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the
longest
> time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just
before
> the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the
four
> out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a
series of
> scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept
streaming.
>
> I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the
occasional
> pilot.

The Archer is a real nice airplane, what year is yours?

Dashi

>
> Chuck

[Kevin]

Nathan Young wrote:
> (PaulaJay1) wrote in message >...
>
>>I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about the
>>wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
>>Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left wing
>>- four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
>>forward of the trailing edge.
>>
>>At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the longest
>>time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just before
>>the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the four
>>out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a series of
>>scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept streaming.
>
>
> Cool test Chuck! I assume the ribbons were straight back in normal
> flight? What did they do during the stall? Sideways, upwards,
> forwards, random?
>
> -Nathan


It would get even better if you add some vortex generators .

[Michelle P]

Chuck,
You were conducting the this "experiment" in a Experimental Certified
aircraft right? ;-) Otherwise you violated the type certificate of the
aircraft.
I hope you were alone and the FAA was not watching.

Michelle

PaulaJay1 wrote:

>I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about the
>wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
>Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left wing
>- four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
>forward of the trailing edge.
>
>At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the longest
>time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just before
>the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the four
>out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a series of
>scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept streaming.
>
>I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the occasional
>pilot.
>
>Chuck
>
>

--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

[PaulaJay1]

In article <eZ5Bb.272612$Dw6.930509@attbi_s02>, Kevin > writes:

>Cool test Chuck! I assume the ribbons were straight back in normal
>> flight? What did they do during the stall? Sideways, upwards,
>> forwards, random?
>>
>> -Nathan
>
>
> It would get even better if you add some vortex generators .
>
Straight back and no flutter during normal flight.
Ribbons lifted off the wing and did random lazy circles in stall.

What does "even better" mean? I liked what I saw. Vortex generators (don't
think they are STCed for the Archer) would make the flow stick longer and the
wing break more sudden, wouldn't it.

Chuck

[PaulaJay1]

In article >, "Dashi" >
writes:

>The Archer is a real nice airplane, what year is yours?
>
>Dashi
>

The name plate is 24 years old; the engine is 7 years old(from overhaul); the
wingtips are 3 years old; and the 430 GPS is one year old. Planes sorta don't
have an age, do they.<G>

Chuck

[ShawnD2112]

Chuck,
You didn't happen to video it, did you? I've been looking for exactly that
kind of footage for my ground school class to show exactly what you've
talked about.

Shawn
"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
...
>
> I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about
the
> wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
> Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left
wing
> - four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
> forward of the trailing edge.
>
> At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the
longest
> time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just
before
> the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the
four
> out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a
series of
> scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept
streaming.
>
> I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the
occasional
> pilot.
>
> Chuck

[Dave Butler]

Various of the King Schools knowledge exam prep multimedia materials have some
footage like that. Probably copyrighted, though.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

ShawnD2112 wrote:
> Chuck,
> You didn't happen to video it, did you? I've been looking for exactly that
> kind of footage for my ground school class to show exactly what you've
> talked about.
>
> Shawn
> "PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about
>
> the
>
>>wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
>>Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left
>
> wing
>
>>- four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
>>forward of the trailing edge.
>>
>>At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the
>
> longest
>
>>time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just
>
> before
>
>>the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the
>
> four
>
>>out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a
>
> series of
>
>>scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept
>
> streaming.
>
>>I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the
>
> occasional
>
>>pilot.
>>
>>Chuck
>
>
>


--
Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367
A fool and his money are soon flying more airplane than he can handle.

[Ron Natalie]

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message ...
> I had a set of video magazines from sometime in the 80's that had a clip of
> someone famous doing exactly that, except he used pieces of yarn and had several
> dozen on the wing. I don't think I have the videos any more. It was a video
> magazine for pilots that only lasted 2 or 3 issues. Wish I could remember the
> name of the mag. The speaker on that segment might have been Barry Schiff. The
> same series had Chuck Yeager's time to climb attempt in a conquest, and had a
> segment on that gulfstream outfitted with cameras for filming aircraft in
> flight.

Kerschner for sure spent some time tufting his plane. He also added little trailing
cones and some interior pendulums to work out the dynamics during spins. He
has a rather humerous talk on his escapades with this (both the results of the tests
and comments between him and ATC when he flew the tufted plane into a controlled
field).

[Ray Andraka]

I had a set of video magazines from sometime in the 80's that had a clip of
someone famous doing exactly that, except he used pieces of yarn and had several
dozen on the wing. I don't think I have the videos any more. It was a video
magazine for pilots that only lasted 2 or 3 issues. Wish I could remember the
name of the mag. The speaker on that segment might have been Barry Schiff. The
same series had Chuck Yeager's time to climb attempt in a conquest, and had a
segment on that gulfstream outfitted with cameras for filming aircraft in
flight.

ShawnD2112 wrote:

> Chuck,
> You didn't happen to video it, did you? I've been looking for exactly that
> kind of footage for my ground school class to show exactly what you've
> talked about.
>
> Shawn
> "PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about
> the
> > wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
> > Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left
> wing
> > - four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
> > forward of the trailing edge.
> >
> > At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the
> longest
> > time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just
> before
> > the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the
> four
> > out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a
> series of
> > scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept
> streaming.
> >
> > I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the
> occasional
> > pilot.
> >
> > Chuck

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[ShawnD2112]

>
>Probably copyrighted, though.
>

There's the rub. Thanks for the tip, though.

Shawn
"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
> Various of the King Schools knowledge exam prep multimedia materials have
some
> footage like that. Probably copyrighted, though.
>
> Dave
> Remove SHIRT to reply directly.
>
> ShawnD2112 wrote:
> > Chuck,
> > You didn't happen to video it, did you? I've been looking for exactly
that
> > kind of footage for my ground school class to show exactly what you've
> > talked about.
> >
> > Shawn
> > "PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about
> >
> > the
> >
> >>wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw
it.
> >>Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the
left
> >
> > wing
> >
> >>- four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
> >>forward of the trailing edge.
> >>
> >>At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the
> >
> > longest
> >
> >>time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just
> >
> > before
> >
> >>the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the
> >
> > four
> >
> >>out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a
> >
> > series of
> >
> >>scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept
> >
> > streaming.
> >
> >>I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the
> >
> > occasional
> >
> >>pilot.
> >>
> >>Chuck
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367
> A fool and his money are soon flying more airplane than he can handle.
>

[Bill J]

I have a video of just that done with a Cherokee by someone at the
factory. It also includes an interview of the Cherokee original
engineer. Now what was his name?????......

ShawnD2112 wrote:
> Chuck,
> You didn't happen to video it, did you? I've been looking for exactly that
> kind of footage for my ground school class to show exactly what you've
> talked about.
>
> Shawn
> "PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about
>
> the
>
>>wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
>>Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left
>
> wing
>
>>- four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
>>forward of the trailing edge.
>>
>>At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the
>
> longest
>
>>time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just
>
> before
>
>>the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the
>
> four
>
>>out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a
>
> series of
>
>>scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept
>
> streaming.
>
>>I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the
>
> occasional
>
>>pilot.
>>
>>Chuck
>
>
>

[Kevin]

PaulaJay1 wrote:
> In article <eZ5Bb.272612$Dw6.930509@attbi_s02>, Kevin > writes:
>
>
>>Cool test Chuck! I assume the ribbons were straight back in normal
>>
>>>flight? What did they do during the stall? Sideways, upwards,
>>>forwards, random?
>>>
>>>-Nathan
>>
>>
>> It would get even better if you add some vortex generators .
>>
>
> Straight back and no flutter during normal flight.
> Ribbons lifted off the wing and did random lazy circles in stall.
>
> What does "even better" mean? I liked what I saw. Vortex generators (don't
> think they are STCed for the Archer) would make the flow stick longer and the
> wing break more sudden, wouldn't it.
>
> Chuck

VG details, look at the steep climbout of the cherokee .

/www.pipermods.com/SEATBELT.html

[PaulaJay1]

In article >, "ShawnD2112"
> writes:

>Chuck,
>You didn't happen to video it, did you? I've been looking for exactly that
>kind of footage for my ground school class to show exactly what you've
>talked about.
>
>Shawn

Sorry Shawn, I didn't but it sure would be easy to duplicate yourself. I used
8 ribbons - 4 along the lead edge and 4 aft. Actually 6 inch pieces of yarn
and a bit of duct tape at the front. Eight or ten ribbons are plenty to show
the progressing stall. Pretty obvious to see the effect as you approach stall.

Chuck

[ShawnD2112]

Cheers, Chuck. I may do that (one of these days, when I get around to it,
etc, etc, etc)

Shawn :-)
"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "ShawnD2112"
> > writes:
>
> >Chuck,
> >You didn't happen to video it, did you? I've been looking for exactly
that
> >kind of footage for my ground school class to show exactly what you've
> >talked about.
> >
> >Shawn
>
> Sorry Shawn, I didn't but it sure would be easy to duplicate yourself. I
used
> 8 ribbons - 4 along the lead edge and 4 aft. Actually 6 inch pieces of
yarn
> and a bit of duct tape at the front. Eight or ten ribbons are plenty to
show
> the progressing stall. Pretty obvious to see the effect as you approach
stall.
>
> Chuck

[resident cynic]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 03:49:40 GMT, Michelle P
> wrote:

> Chuck,
> You were conducting the this "experiment" in a Experimental Certified
> aircraft right? ;-) Otherwise you violated the type certificate of the
> aircraft.
> I hope you were alone and the FAA was not watching.

It's OK if he was not carrying passengers.

>
> Michelle
>
> PaulaJay1 wrote:
>
> >I did an interesting experiment in my Archer yesterday. I've read about the
> >wing washout and know the soft stall of my Archer but yeaterday I saw it.
> >Using small pieces of duct tape, I put eight, six inch ribbons on the left wing
> >- four along the leading edge, back about 10 inches, and four, 10 inches
> >forward of the trailing edge.
> >
> >At 3,000 AGL, I slowly decreased speed while holding altitude. For the longest
> >time they all streamed. Then the most inboard aft "came loose". Just before
> >the break for the stall, all four close in ribbons were stalling and the four
> >out ribbons were still streaming. The Archer stall is mild and is a series of
> >scollops. The outside ribbons, in the area of the ailerons kept streaming.
> >
> >I saw what makes this a forgiving plane and a good choice for the occasional
> >pilot.
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >

[Jim Fisher]

"Bill J" > wrote in message
...
> I have a video of just that done with a Cherokee by someone at the
> factory. It also includes an interview of the Cherokee original
> engineer. Now what was his name?????......

"Papa Alpha" or something like that, wasn't it?

--
Jim Fisher