Fire extinguisher question

[Kees Mies]

Hi All,

I had a small engine fire yesterday.
Nothing really serious, just primed too much and whoomp.
Damage, 1 hose costing 22,50 euro, 1 empty extinguisher and a dented
ego.
Now i have the problem about replacing the extinguisher.
The old one contained Halon, but this stuff is prohibited in Europe
from januari
1st 2004.
I had a look at CO2 but these things are really expensive (150,-
euro).
The ones containing powder do more harm then good, the engine has to
be taken apart for inspection after using one of those.
Has anybody other suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Kees.

[Jon Carlson]

They can still be purchased in the US. You might see if Sporty's
(http://www.sportys.com ) will ship you one to Europe before the first
of the year.

-Jon C.


"Kees Mies" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi All,
>
> I had a small engine fire yesterday.
> Nothing really serious, just primed too much and whoomp.
> Damage, 1 hose costing 22,50 euro, 1 empty extinguisher and a dented
> ego.
> Now i have the problem about replacing the extinguisher.
> The old one contained Halon, but this stuff is prohibited in Europe
> from januari
> 1st 2004.
> I had a look at CO2 but these things are really expensive (150,-
> euro).
> The ones containing powder do more harm then good, the engine has to
> be taken apart for inspection after using one of those.
> Has anybody other suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Kees.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Kees Mies wrote:
>
> The old one contained Halon, but this stuff is prohibited in Europe
> from januari 1st 2004.

Does that mean that you won't be able to buy it after that, or does it mean that
the police will come and take it away from you after that? If the former, you
might check with Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. They have branches in England and
Italy and ship from the States to Europe. They sell portable Halon extinguishers
for much less than 150 euro.
http://www.aircraft-spruce.com

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[David Lesher]

(Kees Mies) writes:

>Hi All,

>I had a look at CO2 but these things are really expensive (150,-
>euro).
>The ones containing powder do more harm then good, the engine has to
>be taken apart for inspection after using one of those.
>Has anybody other suggestions?

Difficult question...

The dry powder ("Ansul Powder" is the name I know) is unequaled in
fighting petroleum fed fires. Decades ago, I worked at a tank farm
with ~40 million gallons of gasoline, butane & fuel oil, and they
were the only thing acceptable. One man with a 20# bottle could
eaily put out a 25 ft dia fire with 6+ ft flames. [Annual training..]

[We also had 250# bottles on wheels and 8000 gallons of 2% foam.
Any fire anywhere near needing such would have me running a 3 minute
mile.]

But, Ansul Powder does so at the expense of ruining what it saves.
The baked on mess it leaves is sure death for any electronics and
moving parts.

So, I'd have one in the hanger, and at the fuel pump.
But on board? See the last thread about NOT deploying the Cirrus
chute because.....



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[Kyler Laird]

I've been hesitating to post because I thought someone would bring
up better information than I have, but I haven't noticed anyone post
about a Halon replacement.

I'm not sure if I have all of my facts straight but as I recall,
when my wife got a fire extinguisher for our plane she was offered
something that is a non-banned substitute for Halon. I had told
her to find a Halon extinguisher, but I forget what exactly she
ended up getting. I do recall that she was told that the other
was just as good as Halon but not banned.

I've been meaning to get out to the plane to check, but I'm trying
to finish up end-of-semester assignments. Someone else want to
jump in and correct me first?

--kyler

[G.R. Patterson III]

Kyler Laird wrote:
>
> I've been hesitating to post because I thought someone would bring
> up better information than I have, but I haven't noticed anyone post
> about a Halon replacement.

Just played around with Yahoo a bit, and it seems that both 3M and Dupont have
come up with replacement compounds. I'm sure there are others, but a company in
England makes something called the "Sea-Fire" extinguisher for boats that might
do well for planes and might be readily available in Europe.
http://www.bluemarblesolutions.co.uk/halon_replacement.html

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[Duane MacInnis]

Halon -- www.h3r.com and available at Spruce www.aircraftspruce.com


Duane MacInnis PE
Flight Instructor
Cell (604) 454-7415
www.macinnisaviation.com

Grumman Cheetah C-GVJF



> But, Ansul Powder does so at the expense of ruining what it saves.
> The baked on mess it leaves is sure death for any electronics and
> moving parts.

[SeeAndAvoid]

Sounds familiar, burned me a scat hose, nothing serious but it got my
attention and showed me how fast I can unhook an extinguisher, get out and
use it. Pretty quick. The extinguisher was the one that came with the
plane when I bought it and there was no telling what was left in it so I
went looking for a replacement.

I looked into those replacements for Halon, after talking to a couple
dealers on the phone that sold it, they said they're alright, but not as
good as Halon, and the prices were alot higher. Learned some other things
as well, even though Halon is banned, you can still buy it recycled. I got
it from A/C Spruce (the H3R RT A1200) which has the part# 13-07660 at A/C
Spruce. I read that the old Halon 1211 often has leak problems especially
after you actually use it. The 1211/1301 blend that this extinguisher has
seems to hold its charge longer - it can all be found on www.h3r.com . I
think I paid $125 or something. I'm not sure how things are over in Europe,
but the regs here say: 2.5lbs capacity / 5B:C rating / not less than 8sec
discharge time / not less than 10feet range.

I cant say how well this one works, luckily havent had the need to try it
out.
Chris

[Kevin McCue]

There are 2 new "environmentally safe" halon alternatives available.
Unfortunately I can't remember either of them even though I just bought a
2.5 lb extinguisher for the luscombe about $115.

--
Kevin McCue
KRYN
'47 Luscombe 8E
Rans S-17 (for sale)




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[Kyler Laird]

I visited our plane today. Our fire extinguisher says "Ansul
CleanGuard With DuPont FE-36".
http://www.alltypefire.com/cleanguard.html
Pound for pound these units offer higher ratings than
Halon replacements currently on the market. They are
extremely low in toxicity, and they are not subject
to future production reduction or phase-out.

http://www.firefire.com/Products/fireextinguishers/cleanguard.htm

--kyler