Why No N-Number in FAA Database?

[Carl Orton]

Hi all;

Checking into my first plane purchase, and have a question for you that I'm
not sure of.

I found a plane. I have not seen the registration cert (haven't looked for
it).

The N-number is *not* in the FAA aircraft registry database.

Why? I thought that registrations were good until changed - as in,
transferred to another owner, or if the a/c were totalled.

Thanks for any insight;
Carl

[Dave S]

Even if totalled... it may still exist..

My father ditched a Beech 18 off of Honolulu in the late 70's (totalling
the airframe).. A few years ago I found his old log books and the N
number is still registered to his name and that now totalled aircraft.

I dont know how to explain your lack of finding info, except to say
maybe 1) you made an error or 2) someone is not providing good info 3)
the government is being its usual self.

Dave

Carl Orton wrote:
> Hi all;
>
> Checking into my first plane purchase, and have a question for you that I'm
> not sure of.
>
> I found a plane. I have not seen the registration cert (haven't looked for
> it).
>
> The N-number is *not* in the FAA aircraft registry database.
>
> Why? I thought that registrations were good until changed - as in,
> transferred to another owner, or if the a/c were totalled.
>
> Thanks for any insight;
> Carl
>
>

[Blanche]

Gene Kearns > wrote:
>Another scenario is that the triennial registration was not returned
>for a number of cycles, the aircraft was considered lost, and the
>N-number returned to the pool of available numbers.

Hm....I got my notice this summer and it stated to return only if something
changed (name, address, ownership, etc).

[[email protected]]

On 16-Dec-2003, "Carl Orton" > wrote:

> I found a plane. I have not seen the registration cert (haven't looked for
> it).
>
> The N-number is *not* in the FAA aircraft registry database.
>
> Why?


One possible reason is that the N-number was recently changed, which often
is done (at the request of the owner) when a plane is repainted. It takes
some time, as in months, for the FA data base to reflect such changes.

You may be able to search the data base by manufacturer's serial number,
which will NEVER change. Or ask the owner to explain the situation.

--
-Elliott Drucker

[Dennis O'Connor]

I reported an aircraft sale... Two years later the new owner still had not
registered it in his name and it still showed on the database as registered
to me, which leaves me at risk of an expensive legal battle if there is a
crash..... The owner refused to answer my phone calls or letters...
Fortuitously, at that time the FAA sent me the usual postcard where you can
change the airplanes status.. I 'checked' the back side of the form where
the check box is for 'destroyed' and sent it back... About six weeks later
the airplane disappeared from the database...
Denny

"Dave S" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Even if totalled... it may still exist..

[Jim Fisher]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
I 'checked' the back side of the form where
> the check box is for 'destroyed' and sent it back... About six weeks later
> the airplane disappeared from the database...

I love it!

Did the new owner ever recover the aircraft?

--
Jim Fisher

[Carl Orton]

Update:

The a/c was (still is) repossessed.

Allegedly (use this word strongly) someone sent in a de-register request due
with "a/c destroyed" as the reason.

Then, someone else (unsure here) allegedly requested the same number as a
custom request.

So, even if the plane gets re-registered, the old number cannot be used (or
at least, until the year is up if they never actually use the number).

Interesting way to protest a reposession?

Found out most of this via AOPA. I have a copy of the FAA registry on my
computer, but as noted, found nothing. AOPA was able to immediately go
directly to FAA while I was on the phone to tell me about the
de-registration and number reservation.

When I called the bank to tell them this news, they were a bit surprised!!!
They're supposedly working it with one of their title services in OKC.

Should be interesting....

"Carl Orton" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all;
>
> Checking into my first plane purchase, and have a question for you that
I'm
> not sure of.
>
> I found a plane. I have not seen the registration cert (haven't looked for
> it).
>
> The N-number is *not* in the FAA aircraft registry database.
>
> Why? I thought that registrations were good until changed - as in,
> transferred to another owner, or if the a/c were totalled.
>
> Thanks for any insight;
> Carl
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dennis O'Connor wrote:
>
> I 'checked' the back side of the form where
> the check box is for 'destroyed' and sent it back... About six weeks later
> the airplane disappeared from the database...

I wonder if this is the same plane Carl's checking out?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[G.R. Patterson III]

Gene Kearns wrote:
>
> Another scenario is that the triennial registration was not returned
> for a number of cycles, the aircraft was considered lost, and the
> N-number returned to the pool of available numbers.

Tri-ennial registration?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually
said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Roger Halstead]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:29:21 -0500, Gene Kearns
> wrote:

>On 16 Dec 2003 09:35:15 -0700, Blanche >
>wrote:
>
>>Gene Kearns > wrote:
>>>Another scenario is that the triennial registration was not returned
>>>for a number of cycles, the aircraft was considered lost, and the
>>>N-number returned to the pool of available numbers.
>>
>>Hm....I got my notice this summer and it stated to return only if something
>>changed (name, address, ownership, etc).
>
>Not sure of your particular situation (you may qualify under paragraph
>(a), but this is the law as written:
>
>http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part47-51-FAR.shtml

Nope, that's not on the form.
I've only sent one in and that was when we changed the registration.
All others have stated, you do not need to return this form if no
changes have been made. So, over the last 13 or 14 years I've only
sent one in. Aparently the FAA doesn't read their own FARs, or figure
it's an Opt-in. IE, if it ain't changed we'll enter it that way.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers

[Roger Halstead]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:25:09 -0500, Gene Kearns
> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:04:16 -0800, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Gene Kearns wrote:
>>>
>>> Another scenario is that the triennial registration was not returned
>>> for a number of cycles, the aircraft was considered lost, and the
>>> N-number returned to the pool of available numbers.
>>
>>Tri-ennial registration?
>>
>
>Yup......Triennial Aircraft Registration Report ... a real eye opener,
>eh? Surf over to :
>
>http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part47-51-FAR.shtml
>
>check out 47.51(d), especially, and you'll see what could have
>happened.

I seriously doubt it.

The form they send out tells the user not to bother if nothing has
changed, at least all the ones I've received so far are that way.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers


>
>

[Roger Tracy]

I thought this needed to be returned only if there were changes or
inaccuracies.


"Gene Kearns" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:48:33 -0600, "Carl Orton" >
> wrote:
>
> >Hi all;
> >
> >Checking into my first plane purchase, and have a question for you that
I'm
> >not sure of.
> >
> >I found a plane. I have not seen the registration cert (haven't looked
for
> >it).
> >
> >The N-number is *not* in the FAA aircraft registry database.
> >
> >Why? I thought that registrations were good until changed - as in,
> >transferred to another owner, or if the a/c were totalled.
> >
> >Thanks for any insight;
> >Carl
> >
>
> Another scenario is that the triennial registration was not returned
> for a number of cycles, the aircraft was considered lost, and the
> N-number returned to the pool of available numbers.
>
> I know this issue has surfaced in the FSDO just south of us a couple
> of times in the last few years.
>
> Certainly, at this point, before making any commitments, I'd do
> further research to verify this situation. If what you have discovered
> is accurate, much of the paperwork required onboard the aircraft is
> not usable.
>

[Dennis O'Connor]

The dickweed thinks he is a real player... With any luck he will come ot
the attention of some fsdo inspector... Ought to be hilarious...

"Jim Fisher" > wrote in message
...
> "Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message
> I 'checked' the back side of the form where
> > the check box is for 'destroyed' and sent it back... About six weeks
later
> > the airplane disappeared from the database...
>
> I love it!
>
> Did the new owner ever recover the aircraft?
>
> --
> Jim Fisher
>
>

[Roger Halstead]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:31:37 -0500, Gene Kearns
> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:28:18 GMT, Roger Halstead
> wrote:
>
>>Nope, that's not on the form.
>>I've only sent one in and that was when we changed the registration.
>>All others have stated, you do not need to return this form if no
>>changes have been made. So, over the last 13 or 14 years I've only
>>sent one in. Aparently the FAA doesn't read their own FARs, or figure
>>it's an Opt-in. IE, if it ain't changed we'll enter it that way.
>>
>>Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>>(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
>>www.rogerhalstead.com
>>Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers
>
>Well, maybe so, but it isn't like nobody has noticed, here is your
>info from the FAA:

Why bother X inght the stuff out...It's there for any one to see who
looks. <:-))
>
>Owner Type: Individual Owner Name: HALSTEAD ROGER X
>City: XXXXXXX State: XX
>Zip: XXXXX-XXXX Country: US
>Fractional Owner:
>Aircraft Type: Fixed wing single engine Model Year: 1959
>Airworthiness Class: Standard Transponder Code: 52662366
>Serial Number: CD-2 Aircraft Model: 1151402
>Last Action: 2003-09-16 Cert Issue: 2000-09-20
>Status: The Triennial Aircraft Registration form was mailed and has
>not been returned by the Post Office

It said right on the form, do not return if no changes made. At least
one other poster noted the same thing.

>Aircraft Mfg: BEECH Aircraft Model: 35-33
>Category: Land Amateur: No
>Engines: 1 Seats: 4
>Weight: CLASS 1 Cruising Speed: 138
>Engine Mfg.: CONT MOTOR Engine Model: I0-470 SERIES
>Fuel Consumed: 19.50 Horsepower/Thrust: 260
>
>Personally, I'm going to play it safe and keep sending mine in......

I'm going to have to call them and ask.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers

[Roger Halstead]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:31:37 -0500, Gene Kearns
> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 07:28:18 GMT, Roger Halstead
> wrote:
>
>>Nope, that's not on the form.
>>I've only sent one in and that was when we changed the registration.
>>All others have stated, you do not need to return this form if no
>>changes have been made. So, over the last 13 or 14 years I've only
>>sent one in. Aparently the FAA doesn't read their own FARs, or figure
>>it's an Opt-in. IE, if it ain't changed we'll enter it that way.
>>
>>Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>>(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
>>www.rogerhalstead.com
>>Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers
>
>Well, maybe so, but it isn't like nobody has noticed, here is your
>info from the FAA:
>

I just went into the database and could find no mention of the
triennial aircraft registration.

What comes up on the FAA site when I search on 833R is similar to the
data below but makes no mention of the Triennial.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers

>Owner Type: Individual Owner Name: HALSTEAD ROGER X
>City: XXXXXXX State: XX
>Zip: XXXXX-XXXX Country: US
>Fractional Owner:
>Aircraft Type: Fixed wing single engine Model Year: 1959
>Airworthiness Class: Standard Transponder Code: 52662366
>Serial Number: CD-2 Aircraft Model: 1151402
>Last Action: 2003-09-16 Cert Issue: 2000-09-20
>Status: The Triennial Aircraft Registration form was mailed and has
>not been returned by the Post Office
>Aircraft Mfg: BEECH Aircraft Model: 35-33
>Category: Land Amateur: No
>Engines: 1 Seats: 4
>Weight: CLASS 1 Cruising Speed: 138
>Engine Mfg.: CONT MOTOR Engine Model: I0-470 SERIES
>Fuel Consumed: 19.50 Horsepower/Thrust: 260
>
>Personally, I'm going to play it safe and keep sending mine in......

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:03:08 GMT, Roger Halstead
> wrote:

>>Well, maybe so, but it isn't like nobody has noticed, here is your
>>info from the FAA:
>
>I just went into the database and could find no mention of the
>triennial aircraft registration.
>
>What comes up on the FAA site when I search on 833R is similar to the
>data below but makes no mention of the Triennial.

It's been on the FAA Registration databases when I've downloaded them the
past several years. Here's the various options for the status field
referring to the triennial report:

Blank - N-Number assigned
A - The Triennial Aircraft Registration form was mailed and has not been
returned by the Post Office
M - Aircraft registered to the manufacturer under their Dealer Certificate
N - Foreign companies which have not returned their flight hour reports
R - Registration pending
1 - Triennial Aircraft Registration form was returned by the Post Office as
undeliverable
3 - N-Number assigned as amateurbuilt - but not yet registered
4 - N-Number assigned as import - but not yet registered
5 - Reserved N-Number
6 - Administratively canceled
7 - Sale reported
8 - A second attempt has been made at mailing a Triennial Aircraft
Registration form to the owner with no response
9 - Certificate of Registration has been revoked

Ron Wanttaja

[Roger Halstead]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 15:29:10 GMT, Ron Wanttaja >
wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:03:08 GMT, Roger Halstead
> wrote:
>
>>>Well, maybe so, but it isn't like nobody has noticed, here is your
>>>info from the FAA:
>>
>>I just went into the database and could find no mention of the
>>triennial aircraft registration.
>>
>>What comes up on the FAA site when I search on 833R is similar to the
>>data below but makes no mention of the Triennial.
>
>It's been on the FAA Registration databases when I've downloaded them the
>past several years. Here's the various options for the status field
>referring to the triennial report:

I called them today, told them I read the part about no changes and
figured I didn't need to return it. The response was, "If there are
no changes, don't worry about it".

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers
>
>Blank - N-Number assigned
>A - The Triennial Aircraft Registration form was mailed and has not been
>returned by the Post Office
>M - Aircraft registered to the manufacturer under their Dealer Certificate
>N - Foreign companies which have not returned their flight hour reports
>R - Registration pending
>1 - Triennial Aircraft Registration form was returned by the Post Office as
>undeliverable
>3 - N-Number assigned as amateurbuilt - but not yet registered
>4 - N-Number assigned as import - but not yet registered
>5 - Reserved N-Number
>6 - Administratively canceled
>7 - Sale reported
>8 - A second attempt has been made at mailing a Triennial Aircraft
>Registration form to the owner with no response
>9 - Certificate of Registration has been revoked
>
>Ron Wanttaja