Ideal watch?

[Brinks]

I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And I
found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for switching
tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what would
everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch? Here's
my list -

1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
with those pesky conversions
3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
impresses the chicks at the bar

What say you?

Chris

[smf]

I went out and bought a "chono" with all the bells and whistles. It didn't
take long to retire it because I just can't read the timer function or any
other thing on it except the time.
What does work for me is a Wenger (Swiss Army) watch with GMT 24hr hand. The
watch has standard hands and a GMT hour hand with a 24hr face. I like the
Idea of knowing Zulu time. I have a Atomic clock at home to keep it
accurate. Although I can get a little "Anal" with the atomic clock.
I have a digital "Chrono" timer in my Glasair II and a cheap stop watch for
back up. I guess I could time my preflights with my chrono wrist
watch...that is if the lighting is just right!!!

Have a good flight
Steve

[Bonanza Man]

an FAA examiner i know told me the size of the
pilot's watch is usually inversely proportional to
his hours.

i'm finding quite a bit of truth in that statement.

[john smith]

Two years ago, I switched from an analog face to digital face watch.
The watch I selected is a Timex iControl Expedition. $40 retail. Campmor
is having a closeout sale on these watches for $16.

[BTIZ]

I completed 20yrs of AF flying as a Navigator with a cheap $30 Timex..
granted I had to replace it a few times.. but I always went back and got the
same model or as close to it as I could get.. replaced the wrist band a few
times too.

- 2 time zones, Keep one on home and the other on UTC, switch it over to UTC
display at the mission brief, time hack
- 24hr clock,
- alarm (for those RON wake up calls)
- it had a stop watch, but when I needed it, a real stopwatch was better and
easier.. ever try to "rehack" a timed turn with buttons on your wrist and
still use your hands for flying? I still fly IFR with the "AF ISSUE" stop
watch tied to my kneeboard.
- Timer, was good for out doing my PT (Physical Fitness Training), 3-5 mile
runs.

The watch you describe is for attracting bar flies.. ohh.. are you a pilot?

BT

"Brinks" > wrote in message
...
> I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
> Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
> thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
> others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And
I
> found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for
switching
> tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what
would
> everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch?
Here's
> my list -
>
> 1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
> 2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
> with those pesky conversions
> 3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
> 4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
> 5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
> impresses the chicks at the bar
>
> What say you?
>
> Chris
>
>

[tony roberts]

> I've been off looking for a good aviation watch.

I have what I believe to be an exceptional watch for the price.
It has a yoke mount and sticks behind and above my gps with a bit of
velcro that comes with it.
It gives me the time, and with one button it becomes a stopwatch.
It also has several other features but the above ones are the ones that
I want.
It came from Aircraft Spruce and cost $29.95.
I am not a big Aircraft Spruce fan but I have to say that this is the
best value item I bought for the plane in a long long time.
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument :)
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[[email protected]]

On 17-Dec-2003, "Brinks" > wrote:

> So, I was wondering, what would
> everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch?


Years ago we replaced the standard equipment analog clock on our instrument
panel with a digital multifunction clock/timer, which is much easier to use
(for typical aviation functions) than any wris****ch, and has integral
backlighting.

That said, I have a Casio digital watch with built-in electronic altimeter.
The altimeter function has been shown to agree fairly closely with the
airplane's altimeter. It could provide a usable backup in the unlikely
event of altimeter failure while in IMC. Of course, it won't work in a
pressurized airplane.

--
-Elliott Drucker

[Michael 182]

How does an electronic altimeter work? Is there some kind of pressure
sensor?

> wrote in message
...
> I have a Casio digital watch with built-in electronic altimeter.

[OSKI 3]

I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And I
found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for switching
tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what would
everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch? Here's
my list -

1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
with those pesky conversions
3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
impresses the chicks at the bar

What say you?

For my two cents worth: I use a TIMEX
ATLANTIS 200. Not analog, but for 38 Bucks, it has two times, Timer, Light,
Alarm, but no vibrate mode. I can hear
it go off even with headsets. This is in a Grumman AA5 by the way. Cheers.

Bill Oparowski
N10SX

[Javier Henderson]

"Brinks" > writes:

> I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
> Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
> thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
> others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And I
> found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for switching
> tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what would
> everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch? Here's
> my list -
>
> 1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
> 2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
> with those pesky conversions
> 3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
> 4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
> 5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
> impresses the chicks at the bar
>
> What say you?

Q: What do you get if you cross a pilot with a gorilla?
A: An ape with a big watch

In the middle of my instrument training, I bought a $40 Casio watch
which had analog hands that I set to local time, and a digital readout
which I set to UTC. I eventually switched back to the Seiko analog
watch I got as a high school graduation present from my parents, which
is the watch I still wear.

So, let me answer your questions:

1) Yes, got that
2) The panel clock in my Skylane has two time zones and a timer with an alarm
3) You should have some cockpit lighting to look at charts, etc, no?
4) See (2) (It's a Davtron M-800)
5) Hm

-jav

[Jay Honeck]

> 1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
> 2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
> with those pesky conversions
> 3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
> 4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
> 5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
> impresses the chicks at the bar

I agree with what you're looking for in a watch. I even thought that I had
finally found the "almost perfect" flying watch in the Casio "Data Bank"
line. It does everything but #4 and #5 (I don't need a watch to pick up
chicks anymore.... :-). It even "projects" the digital display onto the
glass in front of the analog face, eliminating the need for a separate
"window" in the back of the watch -- which makes for a nice, compact sized
watch. It was even cheap, at around thirty bucks.

Unfortunately:

1. Under the store's bright lights, the display was clearly visible. Under
average lighting conditions, however, the "glass" that displays the
projected digital information is too dark, and obscures the hands of the
analog watch. As a result, to see what time it is indoors I usually have to
push the backlight button. This is unacceptable.
2. The menus are absurdly complex, and require WAY too much futzing around
to use the timers and time zones. Thus, I don't use them.
3. The control buttons are too similar and are thus easily confused.

So, I'm back in the search. You wouldn't think it would be so hard to make
a watch with those four (or five) features, but it has eluded me for many
years.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[III]

I got a $30 timex at Target that has features 1 - 3. It also has a
stopwatch which is useful for timing a trip, but isn't be so great for
timing holds in IFR. It has a big digital display behind the analog
hands, so it's easy to read from a distance. It has a molded-on band,
which I'm not crazy about, and I think the watch is a bit ugly, but
it's definitely useful.


>
> 1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
> 2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
> with those pesky conversions
> 3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
> 4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
> 5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
> impresses the chicks at the bar
>
> What say you?
>
> Chris

[[email protected]]

On 17-Dec-2003, "Michael 182" > wrote:

> How does an electronic altimeter work? Is there some kind of pressure
> sensor?


Yes. The sensing element is in essence a solid-state strain gauge that
detects atmospheric pressure. This is similar to the mechanisms used in
many blind encoders. The Casio watch and similar electronic altimeters
include means for correcting for variations in barometric pressure.
(However, in the case of the Casio the adjustment is unfortunately not in
terms of sea level pressure but is rather just a means to adjust the
altitude readout. For aviation use you set it on the ground to the airport
elevation and adjust it in flight by setting it against the airplane's
altimeter.

While there are some very sophisticated piezoelectric pressure sensors that
allow for an electronic altimeter to be as sensitive as the good old
expanding bellows mechanical kind, the inexpensive strain gauge mechanism is
not quite as good. Adequate for blind encoding or an altitude watch where
required resolution is on the order of 50-100 feet, but not good enough for
use on an instrument approach to low minimums.
______
Elliott Drucker

[Jim Fisher]

> wrote in message
Of course, it won't work in a
> pressurized airplane.


I've always been curious about this: Wouldn't the altimeter still read an
increase/decrease in altitude? No, the altitude would not be correct but
for a backup to keeping the shiny side up in IMC it would have some value,
right?

--
Jim Fisher

[David Megginson]

Jim Fisher wrote:

> I've always been curious about this: Wouldn't the altimeter still read an
> increase/decrease in altitude? No, the altitude would not be correct but
> for a backup to keeping the shiny side up in IMC it would have some value,
> right?

It will show the altitude you've pressurized your cabin to -- nothing to do
with what's going on outside.


All the best,


David

[Jay Masino]

Brinks > wrote:
> I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
> Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
> thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
> others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And I
> found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for switching
> tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what would
> everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch? Here's
> my list -

I haven't worn a watch for many years (including when I flew IFR), but..

> 1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
> 2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
> with those pesky conversions
> 3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night

You can get a fairly inexpensive Timex with these three features.

> 4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.

I seriously doubt you'd feel it vibrate. I know I've forgotten to turn
my cell phone off in the air, and I couldn't feel it when it started
vibrating.

-- Jay


__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

[TTA Cherokee Driver]

Jim Fisher wrote:

> > wrote in message
> Of course, it won't work in a
>
>>pressurized airplane.
>
>
>
> I've always been curious about this: Wouldn't the altimeter still read an
> increase/decrease in altitude? No, the altitude would not be correct but
> for a backup to keeping the shiny side up in IMC it would have some value,
> right?
>

My wife gave me one of these watches for my birthday. Its altitude is
pretty much dead one if I set it right in a non-pressurized airplane.

I took it on a B737 business trip, figuring that since airlineres are
pressurized to 8000 feet it should work up to 8000 feet, and it's at
those lower altitudes that I really wanna know how high we are since
that's when theymake you turn off GPS receivers and such. I naively
thought that the cabin was not pressurized until 8000 and then the
pressurization was turned on at that point to keep it constant.

Imagine my disappointment when on takeoff roll our "altitude" dropped
over 100 feet and stayed there until we were several thousand feet up,
only gradually easing up to 8000. Learn something new every day about
how airlines work. :)

[Kevin]

Jay Masino wrote:
> Brinks > wrote:
>
>>I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
>>Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
>>thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
>>others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And I
>>found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for switching
>>tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what would
>>everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch? Here's
>>my list -
>
>
> I haven't worn a watch for many years (including when I flew IFR), but..
>
>
>>1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
>>2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
>>with those pesky conversions
>>3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
>
>
> You can get a fairly inexpensive Timex with these three features.
>
>
>>4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
>
>
> I seriously doubt you'd feel it vibrate. I know I've forgotten to turn
> my cell phone off in the air, and I couldn't feel it when it started
> vibrating.
>
> -- Jay
>
>
> __!__
> Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
> http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !
>
> Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
> for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
> Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva
>
Why did they not put vg's on the full length of the wing? Can you now
get a much greater angle of attack before stalling ?

Thanks

[Chris]

Look at the Citizen Navitach watches. They do almost everything you
need (no vibrating) and look nicer than your average $30 timex. They
usually go for less then $100 on eBay. If you can find one of the
Citizen "Wingman" watches, they are the same as the Navitach but add
an E6B to the bezel (but I think the Wingman looks a bit clunky).


Chris



On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 19:30:47 -0600, "Brinks"
> wrote:

>I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
>Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
>thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
>others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And I
>found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for switching
>tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what would
>everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch? Here's
>my list -
>
>1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
>2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
>with those pesky conversions
>3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
>4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
>5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
>impresses the chicks at the bar
>
>What say you?
>
>Chris
>

[John Galban]

"smf" > wrote in message news:<WZ9Eb.13862$HQ.12885@okepread02>...
<snip>
> I have a Atomic clock at home to keep it
> accurate. Although I can get a little "Anal" with the atomic clock.

You have an atomic clock at home?!? Very impressive. I always
wanted an atomic clock of my very own, but could never find an
affordable supply of Cesium 133

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Mike Rapoport]

How do you think your ears would feel if they only started preasurization
upon reaching 8000'?

Mike
MU-2


"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Fisher wrote:
>
> > > wrote in message
> > Of course, it won't work in a
> >
> >>pressurized airplane.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've always been curious about this: Wouldn't the altimeter still read
an
> > increase/decrease in altitude? No, the altitude would not be correct
but
> > for a backup to keeping the shiny side up in IMC it would have some
value,
> > right?
> >
>
> My wife gave me one of these watches for my birthday. Its altitude is
> pretty much dead one if I set it right in a non-pressurized airplane.
>
> I took it on a B737 business trip, figuring that since airlineres are
> pressurized to 8000 feet it should work up to 8000 feet, and it's at
> those lower altitudes that I really wanna know how high we are since
> that's when theymake you turn off GPS receivers and such. I naively
> thought that the cabin was not pressurized until 8000 and then the
> pressurization was turned on at that point to keep it constant.
>
> Imagine my disappointment when on takeoff roll our "altitude" dropped
> over 100 feet and stayed there until we were several thousand feet up,
> only gradually easing up to 8000. Learn something new every day about
> how airlines work. :)
>

[dave]

Has anybody tried a Suunto? King Schools sells them. They're not
cheap! They are huge however. I've never found anyone who sells them
locally. I'd like to try one on. They definitely have a unique look.
Dave

Brinks wrote:
> I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
> Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
> thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
> others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And I
> found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for switching
> tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what would
> everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch? Here's
> my list -
>
> 1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
> 2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
> with those pesky conversions
> 3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
> 4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
> 5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
> impresses the chicks at the bar
>
> What say you?
>
> Chris
>
>

[John E. Carty]

"John Galban" > wrote in message
om...
> "smf" > wrote in message
news:<WZ9Eb.13862$HQ.12885@okepread02>...
> <snip>
> > I have a Atomic clock at home to keep it
> > accurate. Although I can get a little "Anal" with the atomic clock.
>
> You have an atomic clock at home?!? Very impressive. I always
> wanted an atomic clock of my very own, but could never find an
> affordable supply of Cesium 133
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

That's why I use the rubidium model :-)

[Jim Fisher]

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
> Jim Fisher wrote:
>
> > I've always been curious about this: Wouldn't the altimeter still read
an
> > increase/decrease in altitude? No, the altitude would not be correct
but
> > for a backup to keeping the shiny side up in IMC it would have some
value,
> > right?
>
> It will show the altitude you've pressurized your cabin to -- nothing to
do
> with what's going on outside.

You are right, of course. So is 8000 feet a standard pressure for all
pressurized aircraft or are there some that keep 5000 or perhaps 10,000?

--
Jim Fisher

[Paul Mennen]

"Mike Rapoport" wrote:
> How do you think your ears would feel if they only started preasurization
> upon reaching 8000'?

Your ears would feel just fine. Although the climb to 8000' can
happen pretty quickly, your ears can tolerate quick decreases
in pressure much easier than quick increases. Then as the plane
climbed above 8000' the pressure inside the cabin would remain
constant so you ears would think the plane is still at 8000'.
(I believe the reason the pressure profile is not controlled
that way during ascent has more to do with the practical aspects
of the pressurizing system). Now if the same profile were
reversed on the way down, that could cause significant discomfort
esp. for those with colds or for those who can't quickly equalize
their ear pressure. A more logical profile for the cabin pressure
would be to keep the cabin effective altitude at some multiple
of the outside altitude (perhaps around 1/4). So when the plane
is at 4000 feet, your ears would think you are at 1000ft. When
the plane got up to 32000 feet, your ears (and lungs) would think
you are at 8000 feet. I don't know how the system actually works
but I'm guessing it is some approximation of what I described.
(My plane is not pressurized, so I never had to learn about
that stuff).

~Paul

[Mike Rapoport]

My experience is different, my ears don't like climbing 3000fpm particularly
if I have a cold. Preasurization is set to a cabin altitude and a cabin
climb rate. After takeoff the outflow is restricted to maintain the desired
altitude and climb rate.

Mike
MU-2


"Paul Mennen" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Mike Rapoport" wrote:
> > How do you think your ears would feel if they only started
preasurization
> > upon reaching 8000'?
>
> Your ears would feel just fine. Although the climb to 8000' can
> happen pretty quickly, your ears can tolerate quick decreases
> in pressure much easier than quick increases. Then as the plane
> climbed above 8000' the pressure inside the cabin would remain
> constant so you ears would think the plane is still at 8000'.
> (I believe the reason the pressure profile is not controlled
> that way during ascent has more to do with the practical aspects
> of the pressurizing system). Now if the same profile were
> reversed on the way down, that could cause significant discomfort
> esp. for those with colds or for those who can't quickly equalize
> their ear pressure. A more logical profile for the cabin pressure
> would be to keep the cabin effective altitude at some multiple
> of the outside altitude (perhaps around 1/4). So when the plane
> is at 4000 feet, your ears would think you are at 1000ft. When
> the plane got up to 32000 feet, your ears (and lungs) would think
> you are at 8000 feet. I don't know how the system actually works
> but I'm guessing it is some approximation of what I described.
> (My plane is not pressurized, so I never had to learn about
> that stuff).
>
> ~Paul
>
>

[[email protected]]

On 19-Dec-2003, "Mike Rapoport" > wrote:

> Preasurization is set to a cabin altitude and a cabin
> climb rate. After takeoff the outflow is restricted to maintain the
> desired altitude and climb rate.


Taking into account that I have never piloted a pressurized aircraft, to me
it seems like the most demanding task in managing pressurization has to be
to make sure that the cabin pressure matches the outside pressure upon
landing. If, for example, you landed at Denver with sea level cabin
pressure, you would have to sit inside the airplane for quite a few minutes
while the cabin depressurized at a comfortable rate before you could open
the door. However, most articles I've read about cabin pressure management
don't discuss this aspect. Am I missing something?
--
-Elliott Drucker

[Mike Rapoport]

You simply set the cabin altitude to slightly above field elevation. If you
forget, the cabin pressure is dumped when the plane touches down with a loud
embarassing "whoosh" .

Mike
MU-2

> wrote in message
...
>
> On 19-Dec-2003, "Mike Rapoport" > wrote:
>
> > Preasurization is set to a cabin altitude and a cabin
> > climb rate. After takeoff the outflow is restricted to maintain the
> > desired altitude and climb rate.
>
>
> Taking into account that I have never piloted a pressurized aircraft, to
me
> it seems like the most demanding task in managing pressurization has to be
> to make sure that the cabin pressure matches the outside pressure upon
> landing. If, for example, you landed at Denver with sea level cabin
> pressure, you would have to sit inside the airplane for quite a few
minutes
> while the cabin depressurized at a comfortable rate before you could open
> the door. However, most articles I've read about cabin pressure
management
> don't discuss this aspect. Am I missing something?
> --
> -Elliott Drucker

[TTA Cherokee Driver]

Mike Rapoport wrote:

> How do you think your ears would feel if they only started preasurization
> upon reaching 8000'?
>


Judging from my experience, I would be fine. But I have noticed other
people are more sensitive. I took my brother for a flight in the
Cherokee and when we leveled off at 5500 I told him we were at cruising
altitude, and he said "good, my ears will probalby stop bugging me now".
Taht surprised me, as I have never felt any ear discomfort climbing or
descending in an unpressurized GA airplane.

[Mike Rapoport]

Do you think that a jet climbs at the same rate as your Cherokee?

Mike
MU-2


"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mike Rapoport wrote:
>
> > How do you think your ears would feel if they only started
preasurization
> > upon reaching 8000'?
> >
>
>
> Judging from my experience, I would be fine. But I have noticed other
> people are more sensitive. I took my brother for a flight in the
> Cherokee and when we leveled off at 5500 I told him we were at cruising
> altitude, and he said "good, my ears will probalby stop bugging me now".
> Taht surprised me, as I have never felt any ear discomfort climbing or
> descending in an unpressurized GA airplane.
>

[TTA Cherokee Driver]

No, I'm just saying my ears are less sensitive than other people I know.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

> Do you think that a jet climbs at the same rate as your Cherokee?
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> "TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>Mike Rapoport wrote:
>>
>>
>>>How do you think your ears would feel if they only started
>
> preasurization
>
>>>upon reaching 8000'?
>>>
>>
>>
>>Judging from my experience, I would be fine. But I have noticed other
>>people are more sensitive. I took my brother for a flight in the
>>Cherokee and when we leveled off at 5500 I told him we were at cruising
>>altitude, and he said "good, my ears will probalby stop bugging me now".
>> Taht surprised me, as I have never felt any ear discomfort climbing or
>>descending in an unpressurized GA airplane.
>>
>
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

Fair enough. I suspect that if you were in a Learjet climbing over
6,000fpm, that even your ears might complain a little.

Mike
MU-2


"TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
...
> No, I'm just saying my ears are less sensitive than other people I know.
>
> Mike Rapoport wrote:
>
> > Do you think that a jet climbs at the same rate as your Cherokee?
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
> >
> >
> > "TTA Cherokee Driver" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>
> >>Mike Rapoport wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>How do you think your ears would feel if they only started
> >
> > preasurization
> >
> >>>upon reaching 8000'?
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>Judging from my experience, I would be fine. But I have noticed other
> >>people are more sensitive. I took my brother for a flight in the
> >>Cherokee and when we leveled off at 5500 I told him we were at cruising
> >>altitude, and he said "good, my ears will probalby stop bugging me now".
> >> Taht surprised me, as I have never felt any ear discomfort climbing or
> >>descending in an unpressurized GA airplane.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Fair enough. I suspect that if you were in a Learjet climbing over
> 6,000fpm, that even your ears might complain a little.

Yeah, but it would be worth the pain! :-)

How fast does your MU-2 climb, Mike?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jerald Malin]

I have the Citizen Wingman VI. I like it very much. If you set it to the
digital time mode, you can activate the back light by pressing any button.

I love the 31 time zones, and dial in the right one when traveling. It beats
trying to reset the watch constantly. I use the UTC zone when flying.

I must say, the really cute E6B bezel is useless, and totally impossible to
see in the air. After a few years of walking into walls, there are lots of
missing paint spots on the bezel.

I cannot hear the alarm in a quiet room, let alone a noisy plane.

Hey! If you have an extra $14,000, you can get a nice Breitling Emergency
with a built in ELT!!

Jerry Malin,
Warrior N82045


When flying IFR, my Westbend Kitchen Timer ($12 at Wal*mart) velcrowed to my
yoke is great. Those BIG numbers are easy to see.
"Chris" > wrote in message
...
> Look at the Citizen Navitach watches. They do almost everything you
> need (no vibrating) and look nicer than your average $30 timex. They
> usually go for less then $100 on eBay. If you can find one of the
> Citizen "Wingman" watches, they are the same as the Navitach but add
> an E6B to the bezel (but I think the Wingman looks a bit clunky).
>
>
> Chris

[Tom Sixkiller]

> wrote in message
...
>
> On 19-Dec-2003, "Mike Rapoport" > wrote:
>
> > Preasurization is set to a cabin altitude and a cabin
> > climb rate. After takeoff the outflow is restricted to maintain the
> > desired altitude and climb rate.
>
>
> Taking into account that I have never piloted a pressurized aircraft, to
me
> it seems like the most demanding task in managing pressurization has to be
> to make sure that the cabin pressure matches the outside pressure upon
> landing. If, for example, you landed at Denver with sea level cabin
> pressure, you would have to sit inside the airplane for quite a few
minutes
> while the cabin depressurized at a comfortable rate before you could open
> the door. However, most articles I've read about cabin pressure
management
> don't discuss this aspect. Am I missing something?

No, you have it right. Cabin pressure is usually adjusted when beginning
descent (within 300 feet of destination altitude).

[John E. Carty]

"Jerald Malin" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I have the Citizen Wingman VI. I like it very much. If you set it to the
> digital time mode, you can activate the back light by pressing any button.
>
> I love the 31 time zones, and dial in the right one when traveling. It
beats
> trying to reset the watch constantly. I use the UTC zone when flying.
>
> I must say, the really cute E6B bezel is useless, and totally impossible
to
> see in the air. After a few years of walking into walls, there are lots of
> missing paint spots on the bezel.
>
> I cannot hear the alarm in a quiet room, let alone a noisy plane.
>


> Hey! If you have an extra $14,000, you can get a nice Breitling Emergency
> with a built in ELT!!

More like $4,000 :-)


>
> Jerry Malin,
> Warrior N82045
>
>
> When flying IFR, my Westbend Kitchen Timer ($12 at Wal*mart) velcrowed to
my
> yoke is great. Those BIG numbers are easy to see.
> "Chris" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Look at the Citizen Navitach watches. They do almost everything you
> > need (no vibrating) and look nicer than your average $30 timex. They
> > usually go for less then $100 on eBay. If you can find one of the
> > Citizen "Wingman" watches, they are the same as the Navitach but add
> > an E6B to the bezel (but I think the Wingman looks a bit clunky).
> >
> >
> > Chris
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> > Hey! If you have an extra $14,000, you can get a nice Breitling
Emergency
> > with a built in ELT!!
>
> More like $4,000 :-)

Hey -- this is aviation. What's ten grand? :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Donald M. Ross]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:anREb.595498$HS4.4381870@attbi_s01...
>
> Hey -- this is aviation. What's ten grand? :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>
The initial price of admission?

Don

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Donald M. Ross" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:anREb.595498$HS4.4381870@attbi_s01...
> >
> > Hey -- this is aviation. What's ten grand? :-)
> > --
> > Jay Honeck
> > Iowa City, IA
> > Pathfinder N56993
> > www.AlexisParkInn.com
> > "Your Aviation Destination"
> >
> >
> The initial price of admission?
>

Initiation fee?

[Mike Rapoport]

There is a huge variation depending on weight and altitude and temperature.
I have seen as high as 4000fpm but I suspect that there was some wave lift
present. I have also seen a little as 900fpm after takeoff from Minden on a
100F day. This may not seem too bad until you consider that Vy is 155kts
which is a pretty high TAS at 6000' and 90F+. The climb angle was pretty
pathetic. Actually it was a little scary. That was the last time I took
off at gross weight from a high altitude airport on a scorching day.
Typical climbout is about 2000fpm at heavy weights. After about 14,000'
climb rate slows and is about 1,000fpm at FL220 and 400fpm at FL290.

Mike
MU-2


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:CMNEb.605907$Fm2.549685@attbi_s04...
> > Fair enough. I suspect that if you were in a Learjet climbing over
> > 6,000fpm, that even your ears might complain a little.
>
> Yeah, but it would be worth the pain! :-)
>
> How fast does your MU-2 climb, Mike?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Typical climbout is about 2000fpm at heavy weights. After about 14,000'
> climb rate slows and is about 1,000fpm at FL220 and 400fpm at FL290.

Wow!

I could used to that... ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Wow!
>
> I could used to that... ;-)

Hmmm. Almost like English, no? :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:B7GFb.427268$Dw6.1313588@attbi_s02...
> > Wow!
> >
> > I could used to that... ;-)
>
> Hmmm. Almost like English, no? :-)

Know.

[Brinks]

Thanks for the info and opinions on the watches! And special thanks to Mike
Rapoport for an interesting discussion on pressurization!

Chris



"Brinks" > wrote in message
...
> I've been off looking for a good aviation watch. I've looked at Citizen
> Skyhawk watches, which look cool, but they don't have a backlight, which I
> thought would be bad (good?) for flying at night. And I've seen some
> others that are all digital, but I like having the hands for a timer. And
I
> found one that vibrates, which I thought would be really handy for
switching
> tanks and things, but it didn't have hands. So, I was wondering, what
would
> everyone like to see as a minimum set of features in an ideal watch?
Here's
> my list -
>
> 1) Analog hands and second hand for timing things
> 2) Digital clock set to Zulu time so I don't have to bother my small brain
> with those pesky conversions
> 3) Backlight so I can see it when I'm flying at night
> 4) Vibrating alarm so I remember to do routine things like switch tanks.
> 5) Nifty E6B ring around the outside that I really can't see, but really
> impresses the chicks at the bar
>
> What say you?
>
> Chris
>
>

[Roger Halstead]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:12:04 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
wrote:

>
>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>news:B7GFb.427268$Dw6.1313588@attbi_s02...
>> > Wow!
>> >
>> > I could used to that... ;-)
>>
>> Hmmm. Almost like English, no? :-)
>
>Know.
>
No, know what?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:12:04 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> >news:B7GFb.427268$Dw6.1313588@attbi_s02...
> >> > Wow!
> >> >
> >> > I could used to that... ;-)
> >>
> >> Hmmm. Almost like English, no? :-)
> >
> >Know.
> >
> No, know what?
>
I don't no!