HELP! To buy or not...rough 63 aztec for $25,000

[david]

I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
(estimated repair, $5000?) Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?) Interior is
poor ($5000 estimate?). Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
Auto pilot broken. It was used as a survey aircraft and has a certified
hole cut. I could potentially use it for aerial work as my company subs
about $50,000 in photography per year (5 jobs). I have a good pilot to
split costs with. He has the commercial rating and would fly while
working. Insurance would be $10,000 for the commercial type. I am a bit
concerned about the
$80/ hour fuel burn and the potential for gremlins on an older not so
well maintained airplane. The price seems very reasonable which is the
main motivation for buying. 25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
something? Is this a good deal? Most of the similar year planes I have
seen are about $80,000. My buddy is an avionics repaiman and would
thoroughly check the plane prior to the purchase. Could it be resold at
a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
a big mistake. Thanks in advance.
David

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[Dave Stadt]

"david" > wrote in message
...
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
> (estimated repair, $5000?) Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?) Interior is
> poor ($5000 estimate?). Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
> Auto pilot broken. It was used as a survey aircraft and has a certified
> hole cut. I could potentially use it for aerial work as my company subs
> about $50,000 in photography per year (5 jobs). I have a good pilot to
> split costs with. He has the commercial rating and would fly while
> working. Insurance would be $10,000 for the commercial type. I am a bit
> concerned about the
> $80/ hour fuel burn and the potential for gremlins on an older not so
> well maintained airplane. The price seems very reasonable which is the
> main motivation for buying. 25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
> with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
> something? Is this a good deal? Most of the similar year planes I have
> seen are about $80,000. My buddy is an avionics repaiman and would
> thoroughly check the plane prior to the purchase. Could it be resold at
> a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
> a big mistake. Thanks in advance.
> David
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
> Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

Buy it for $25K put $100K into it and you will have a $75K airplane.

[Jay Honeck]

Well, David, only you can answer this question: Are you ready for a
multi-year headache in exchange for perhaps saving yourself fairly
significant money?

If the answer is "yes", go for it.

But be prepared for a long slog in the mud.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"david" > wrote in message
...
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
> (estimated repair, $5000?) Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?) Interior is
> poor ($5000 estimate?). Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
> Auto pilot broken. It was used as a survey aircraft and has a certified
> hole cut. I could potentially use it for aerial work as my company subs
> about $50,000 in photography per year (5 jobs). I have a good pilot to
> split costs with. He has the commercial rating and would fly while
> working. Insurance would be $10,000 for the commercial type. I am a bit
> concerned about the
> $80/ hour fuel burn and the potential for gremlins on an older not so
> well maintained airplane. The price seems very reasonable which is the
> main motivation for buying. 25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
> with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
> something? Is this a good deal? Most of the similar year planes I have
> seen are about $80,000. My buddy is an avionics repaiman and would
> thoroughly check the plane prior to the purchase. Could it be resold at
> a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
> a big mistake. Thanks in advance.
> David

[Montblack]

("david" wrote)
<snip>
>25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
> with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
> something? Is this a good deal? Most of the similar year planes I have
> seen are about $80,000. My buddy is an avionics repaiman and would
> thoroughly check the plane prior to the purchase. Could it be resold at
> a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
> a big mistake. Thanks in advance.


Saw this question a few years ago:
If the plane was given to you (free) tomorrow, what would you do with it?

Oh boy, I got a "free" plane with....[insert laundry list of liabilities here]
Still a good deal?

BTW, I've only seen Aztecs from the ground - I like em.

Oh, here's the other rec.aviation question that often comes up - What's your
projected average mission? Will something else (maybe) fill the bill? Or is the
saying fit the bill?

Good luck, keep us posted.

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif

[Rich]

The risks in such a transaction are HUGE! If you LIKE fiddling with
planes, have lots of time available and a very supportive shop to work
with, there is a chance you won't lose TOO much... the chance that you
will have a satisfactory plane without things continually going wrong
are slim, and the chance you can sell it at a profit is ZERO.

People who do take on such a project do it as a pastime, and hope their
pastime doesn't cost them TOO much.

Rich

david wrote:
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition.


Could it be resold at
> a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
> a big mistake. Thanks in advance.
> David

[Rosspilot]

>Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?)

Since it cost me $12,000 to paint my Skyhawk, this seems a little low for an
Aztec.


www.Rosspilot.com

[Nathan Young]

david > wrote in message >...
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
> (estimated repair, $5000?) Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?) Interior is
> poor ($5000 estimate?). Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
> Auto pilot broken.

What is your long range plan with the plane? Keep it? Sell it? This
will determine whether or not this kind of investment is valuable.
Although there are exceptions it is usually better to purchase a plane
in the condition you want versus buying a fix-it upper and shelling
out $10000s in the repair/refinishing process. However, the $25k
purchase price makes this worth evaluating.

If you completely overhaul the plane and make everything in it new -
depending on airframe time, you probably have a market value $100k
airplane. Skip a bit here/there and you probably have a $75k
airplane, so you have a $50k budget to work with.

Start with a few of the basics: What is the airframe time? Are all
ADs complied with (should look at the SBs too) - did you have an
independent mechanic verify this? It can cost a 1000s if not 10000s
to comply with ADs and SBs. Is there damage history to the plane (and
is it recent?) - if so this will subtract significantly from the end
market value.

A cracked cylyinder probably won't cost $5k to repair, but I'm
guessing these engines will need more work than the $5k to be/stay
airworthy. A safe bet would be to expect a MOH in the near future...
Factoryengines.com lists an overhauled IO540 at $22k each. What are
the compressions? How long ago was the MOH? How long since the mags
were overhauled? How about the ignition wiring and plugs? I think
most Lycomings are a 12 year or 2000hr TBO.

New paint on a twin will be about $10k. Hopefully they will not find
corrosion when the paint is peeled.

A nice interior on a twin will be $10k. $5k if you go with fabrics
only (no leather) and do not replace the interior plastics. New
windows would be $2k installed.

Avionics are a wild card and are up to you. You can easily spend
$30-40k on a panel. However, for the most bang for the buck, you
could add 1 GNS430 for about $10k installed and have IFR certified
GPS/VOR/LOC/GS. The plane would probably need a good audio
panel/intercom, which would be $3500 installed. Autopilots
particularly older ones can be troublesome to repair/maintain - you
may want to consider purchasing a new AP. An STEC-30 (altitude hold)
autopilot will cost about $10k installed. You could look on Ebay to
find a used KX-155 and KI209 as a backup NAV/COM.

New gyros might be a consideration, as would be a reconfiguration of
the panel to a standard T instrument layout. This would be another
$2-3K.

Another thing to consider - expect LONG downtimes during your
refurbishment. Probably a month (at least) for your major overhauls.
A month for the P&I. A month for the avionics and gyro work. Plus a
few more months to get various gremlins worked out. That would be a
best case... Paying $10k/yr insurance plus hangar, plus cost of
capital, plus maintenance bills really sucks when you are not getting
to fly. On that note, it might make sense to only use the plane
privately for the first year while you are doing the rehab. No sense
in paying commercial insurance rates if the plane is going to sit in
the maintenance shop.

Last, you mentioned an $80/hr operating rate for the Aztec. I assume
you mean the fuel only cost. Most light twins cost about 2.5x the
hourly fuel cost to operate.

Good luck!
-Nathan

[Mike Rapoport]

Doesn't sound like a good first plane to me. First, you have no idea of
what everything will cost to fix. Second you seem concerned with the cost
of the fuel burn, this will turn out to be a trivial expense in the scheme
of things. The only way it might make sense is if you NEED a twin, can fly
it "as is" (after replacing the cylinder) and plan to sell it in a few years
cheap.

Mike
MU-2

"david" > wrote in message
...
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
> (estimated repair, $5000?) Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?) Interior is
> poor ($5000 estimate?). Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
> Auto pilot broken. It was used as a survey aircraft and has a certified
> hole cut. I could potentially use it for aerial work as my company subs
> about $50,000 in photography per year (5 jobs). I have a good pilot to
> split costs with. He has the commercial rating and would fly while
> working. Insurance would be $10,000 for the commercial type. I am a bit
> concerned about the
> $80/ hour fuel burn and the potential for gremlins on an older not so
> well maintained airplane. The price seems very reasonable which is the
> main motivation for buying. 25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
> with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
> something? Is this a good deal? Most of the similar year planes I have
> seen are about $80,000. My buddy is an avionics repaiman and would
> thoroughly check the plane prior to the purchase. Could it be resold at
> a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
> a big mistake. Thanks in advance.
> David
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
> Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

[Ron Natalie]

"Rosspilot" > wrote in message ...
> >Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?)
>
> Since it cost me $12,000 to paint my Skyhawk, this seems a little low for an
> Aztec.
>
Ouch, it's only costing me about 6K to have the Navion painted. Of course,
I'm doing it in a rather low cost area of the country.

[Viperdoc]

I agree completely with your conclusions- a new owner will never recover the
full value of investments in refurbishing a beat airplane, 20-30cents on a
dollar may be close.

However, your estimates on the cost of repairs seem a bit low. Paint on a
twin for $10,000 is kind of a budget job. For that amount of money you can
expect the screws and panels to be painted over (not removed prior to
paint), as well as no extras like painting the gear legs or wheel wells.
Don't be surprised if there are a fair number of paint runs or overspray. A
top notch job, with complete body work, stripping, primer, paint, and
replacement of all hardware with stainless will run closer to $20,000.

A new interior with leather, new carpeting, and a cleanup of the headliner
will run more like $15,000. You might do an Airtex home job for around
$5,000 if you have the time.

New IO-540's will probably be on the order of $30-35,000 each, particularly
with new hoses and accessories, unless they're turbocharged, which could go
up to around $45,000 each. Don't forget prop overhauls as well.

New boots will be around $25,000-30,000 as well. Avionics can be the biggest
variable. An autopilot (nearly a necessity for flying a twin in weather) is
going to be more like $15-20,000. The S-TEC 30 is a good basic unit (I have
one in my single with altitude hold), but may not adequate for a plane flown
frequently in IMC.

I have experienced most of the above over the last two years that I have
owned a B-55, except the engines. Instead of boots, I went with TKS, which
provides known icing certification by STC. Unlike boots, there is no
maintenance required, and they will not need replacement unless you run the
wing into something. New thicker windows were installed by Beryl D'Shannon,
and paint was done by Dial Eastern in Ohio. The plane is now at Airmod for a
complete leather interior.

From personal experience, I will never recover even a small fraction of my
investments. This approach is OK if you plan on keeping the plane for a
while, but if you want to trade up every few years, a better approach might
be to find something that comes closest to meeting your needs at a good
price, then selling up when you want more speed or room.

[Kyler Laird]

>Buy it for $25K put $100K into it and you will have a $75K airplane.

Wow! Those numbers tell almost the exact story of my 1966 Turbo Aztec.

The subject line of this story caught my eye because that's the amount
of the first check we wrote for our plane (as "salvage - for parts
only"). We've often said it would have still been a bad deal if we'd
gotten it for nothing, but it's a great plane and I have a hard time
imagining anything else working so well for our typical trips.

If I saw a deal like this, I'd be inclined to work something out with
the owner to get the plane through a decent annual inspection and into
airworthiness before writing a check for it. I'd be happy to pay for
the repairs (up to some limit) to be able to purchase a *flying* plane
instead of just one with potential. If you have a mechanic friend and
the plane is already in your backyard, it's a little different, but I
wouldn't want to go through driving two hours each way to work on
restoration again.

Good luck.

--kyler

[Dennis O'Connor]

I never like to rain on someones parade just because they are new to the
game, but this airplane will be trouble...
Your initial engine repair estimates are low by a factor of 3X just to get
em running properly - and then only for a time, maybe a year or so... You
are likely to then find that the engines will both need major overhauls...
One already has the sickness, and as soon as you start using them, so will
the other...
Next, you may find that the props and hubs are out of limits.. Once that
little overhaul is done, you will discover that the rpm wobble also involved
the prop controllers, for a another thousand bucks or so...
You likely will discover that the power pack needs an overhaul, where you
will then discover that most of the hydraulic hoses need replacing... Not
to mention that you need new seals on the gear cylinders, and that the pivot
bushings are shot, causing you to drop the gear - where you will find <or
break> some limit switches and wiring that needs replacing...
And, while we are on hoses, how about the fuel lines, hmmm? And, you better
get a look at the fuel bladders - probably gonna need some bucks thrown at
them..
Now, lets get into the control surfaces... Most likely the pivot bushings
are worn and the surfaces are sloppy and will need a rebuild... And, how
are the cables and pulleys? And, while we are inside the fuselage how many
AD's have not been done, hmmm? <Don't tell me about the log book, have the
mechanic go look.. There's gonna be some surprises on a ship that was not
maintained in the first place>

Awww riiight, I'm only getting warmed up (I do speak Aztec) but I'm gonna
stop beating on you here... I hope you get the picture, and that you get
actual, real world, estimates before putting down one penny <your paint
estimate is out to lunch>... If in the end the math adds up for you, then
go for it... Me, I would look for a plane that was maintained that is in
the $75K - $100K range, that I can fly away - and save myself a lot of grief
and dollars in the end..
Denny

"david" > wrote in message
...
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane.

[Kyler Laird]

(Nathan Young) writes:

>Paying $10k/yr insurance plus hangar, plus cost of
>capital, plus maintenance bills really sucks when you are not getting
>to fly.

Insurance shouldn't be nearly that much for non-moving coverage.
Ours wasn't.

'course it still sucks.

--kyler

[Ron Natalie]

"Dennis O'Connor" > wrote in message ...

> Next, you may find that the props and hubs are out of limits..

Right, I believe this things has the Hartzell X/V hub props on them.
They're probably already unserviceable. Has the first inspection
required by the AD from a few years back been done yet? This
is done every 250 (or 500 hours). A large number of the props
sent to Hartzell for the inspections get defiled by Hartzell as unserviceable.

[Doug]

My initial reaction is first plane? save money? if you have to ask,
don't? Buy it if you WANT a project, otherwise no. It's more difficult
to get work done on a plane than you think. Planes consume money, they
don't save money. What about the down time while it gets repaired?
Usually the running costs of an airplane swamp the purchase costs
anyway, so saving money on purchase becomes a moot point. YOu will
spend the purchase cost in 500 hours of flight running costs. Saving a
little in purchase cost is very minor in the overall long term scheme
of things. Planning on scotching on running maintenance too? If you
have the money, buy a plane in the absolute BEST running condition
with the avionics and options YOU WANT and will be satisfied with. If
you want to save a little money, but a hail damaged plane, they fly
just fine and are 10k less. Also, if you want to save money, ramp it,
not hangar it. Also, if you want to save money, buy liability
insurance only and BE CAREFUL. But don't buy a project to save money.
They don't.

david > wrote in message >...
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
> (estimated repair, $5000?) Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?) Interior is
> poor ($5000 estimate?). Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
> Auto pilot broken. It was used as a survey aircraft and has a certified
> hole cut. I could potentially use it for aerial work as my company subs
> about $50,000 in photography per year (5 jobs). I have a good pilot to
> split costs with. He has the commercial rating and would fly while
> working. Insurance would be $10,000 for the commercial type. I am a bit
> concerned about the
> $80/ hour fuel burn and the potential for gremlins on an older not so
> well maintained airplane. The price seems very reasonable which is the
> main motivation for buying. 25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
> with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
> something? Is this a good deal? Most of the similar year planes I have
> seen are about $80,000. My buddy is an avionics repaiman and would
> thoroughly check the plane prior to the purchase. Could it be resold at
> a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
> a big mistake. Thanks in advance.
> David
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
> Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

[Newps]

david wrote:

> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
> (estimated repair, $5000?)

$15K times two, as surely the other one is worthless.


Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?)

About $10K to paint an Aztec, although this could wait.


Interior is
> poor ($5000 estimate?).

That's about right and will get you leather and all new plastic, carpet,
headliner, etc.


Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
$5K-50K here, depending on what you want to do.


> Auto pilot broken.

An STEC two axis AP is about $11K installed.


It was used as a survey aircraft and has a certified
> hole cut. I could potentially use it for aerial work as my company subs
> about $50,000 in photography per year (5 jobs). I have a good pilot to
> split costs with. He has the commercial rating and would fly while
> working. Insurance would be $10,000 for the commercial type. I am a bit
> concerned about the
> $80/ hour fuel burn and the potential for gremlins on an older not so
> well maintained airplane. The price seems very reasonable which is the
> main motivation for buying. 25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
> with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
> something? Is this a good deal?

An old neglected twin is never a good deal.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dennis O'Connor wrote:
>
> Next, you may find that the props and hubs are out of limits..

He said it has brand new props.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

[Kyler Laird]

"Dave Stadt" > writes:

>Buy it for $25K put $100K into it and you will have a $75K airplane.

Wow! Those numbers tell almost the exact story of my 1966 Turbo Aztec.
Mine was sold as "salvage - parts only" though.

The subject line of this story caught my eye because that's the amount
of the first check we wrote for our plane (as "salvage - for parts
only"). We've often said it would have still been a bad deal if we'd
gotten it for nothing, but it's a great plane and I have a hard time
imagining anything else working so well for our typical trips.

If I went through this again, I'd want to work out something with the
seller so that I could buy an airworthy plane. That might mean making
some agreement on paying up to some maximum amount to have a mechanic
work on the plane before it becomes yours. You'd still pay for the
work but if it turns out that the spar needs to be replaced (about the
only thing mine *didn't* need), you'd be off the hook.

--kyler

[Mike Spera]

As other have posted. Two words of advice: "Run" and "Away". Seriously.
The plane you describe in the condition you describe is likely junk.
Salvage. Please keep looking and find a decent airplane. Spend the $80k
to get one "ready to go". Better yet, spend $100k and get a newer one in
better condition.

Airplane economics are unlike anything else on the planet (except maybe
US government defense spending). You can easily spend way more to get
this plane operational than it is worth. 1200 SMOH on the engines?
Figure replacing both of them immediately. Why? A plane that has been
deteriorated as you describe is not going to miraculously have decent
engines. They are no doubt in the same shape as the rest of the plane.
Beat up, cheaped out, worn out. If they were recent factory overhauls
with warranties, MAYBE. One cracked cylinder... so far.

Good airplanes are not sold with this kind of laundry list. The
seller(s) KNOWS it will cost more to bring the thing up to snuff than
they could possibly fetch. Otherwise, why would they not get the work
done and MAKE MORE MONEY?????

My rule of thumb is: consider a plane with no more than ONE weak area
(engine(s)/prop(s), airframe paint, interior, avionics). This plane
needs all 4. Game over.

Your avionics guy is an excellent choice to check out the plane...
AVIONICS. Nothing more. You need a type-familiar IA to do a $500-$1000
pre-buy inspection on this beast. Others will scream at that price
(remember gang, 2 engines, 2 props, landing gear, 30+ year old plane),
but pre-buys are just like insurance - pay a little, get a lot.. of
risk! Don't worry, you will most likely never finish the pre-buy
inspection. I would put money on the inspection stopping very early on
when several other major problems are "discovered".

The market is depressed and planes are moving slowly. You should be able
to leverage a pretty good deal on a decent plane if you keep looking.

Good Luck,
Mike

david wrote:
> I have a chance to buy a 63 aztec in rough condition. It would be my
> first plane. Engines have 1200 smoh but one has a cracked cylinder.
> (estimated repair, $5000?) Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?) Interior is
> poor ($5000 estimate?). Brand new props. Only 1 nav/com. older avionics.
> Auto pilot broken. It was used as a survey aircraft and has a certified
> hole cut. I could potentially use it for aerial work as my company subs
> about $50,000 in photography per year (5 jobs). I have a good pilot to
> split costs with. He has the commercial rating and would fly while
> working. Insurance would be $10,000 for the commercial type. I am a bit
> concerned about the
> $80/ hour fuel burn and the potential for gremlins on an older not so
> well maintained airplane. The price seems very reasonable which is the
> main motivation for buying. 25,000+5000+5000+5000= $40,000 for a aztec
> with new props, survey hole, new paint and interior. Am I missing
> something? Is this a good deal? Most of the similar year planes I have
> seen are about $80,000. My buddy is an avionics repaiman and would
> thoroughly check the plane prior to the purchase. Could it be resold at
> a profit if I needed to? Please give any advice as I don't want to make
> a big mistake. Thanks in advance.
> David
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
> Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.


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[Rosspilot]

>> >Paint is poor. ($5000 estimate?)
>>
>> Since it cost me $12,000 to paint my Skyhawk, this seems a little low for
>an
>> Aztec.
>>
>Ouch, it's only costing me about 6K to have the Navion painted. Of course,
>I'm doing it in a rather low cost area of the country.

I actually flew mine from New York to Florida to have the paint job done there
(Hoover Aircraft Refinishing-Tampa Bay Exec). The job included new glass all
around, and was done in Jan 2000. Here I am 4 years later and she still looks
brand new--tied down outside in the brutal heat of August and the freezing snow
and ice of New York winter. When I was asking for quotes up here in the NY
area, I was getting $12-14K prices and 6 month waiting lists.


www.Rosspilot.com

[Jay Honeck]

> Ouch. Special job? That is nearly twice the going rate in my
> area....

Same here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Iceman]

Looks like your ego is writing checks your body can't cash! Let's put
the $40K into a really nice ultralight. Better yet... maybe we can
convince the bank to mortgage the cost over 100 years. Going with a
known (proven) quantity seems to be the ever sounding reply. The
question is now... If you go with $75-100K airplane, can you still cover
the payments, operating cost, insurance, and tie-down fees with the $$
you make on survey/photo work? To answer your question with a
question... What is a realistic price tag for an AZTEC or simular twin
in cost per year at say 200 hours flown? I only ask because I don't
have the experience. Any taker's?

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[Jay Honeck]

> Looks like your ego is writing checks your body can't cash! Let's put
> the $40K into a really nice ultralight.

Couldn't you buy a fleet of ultralights for $40K?

Or one gold-plated one?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan Thomas]

Don't buy this airplane. As Dennis O'Connor has itemized, the bills
will go on and on and you will run out of money before you ever fly
it.
Find another airplane that some poor guy has already made the
same mistake with; one on which he has already spent a fortune fixing
everything, and from which he can't hope to recoup the cost. You'll
have a nice airplane at half what that Aztec would cost you.

Dan

[Kyler Laird]

(Dan Thomas) writes:

>Don't buy this airplane. As Dennis O'Connor has itemized, the bills
>will go on and on and you will run out of money before you ever fly
>it.

Want to bet? I'll wager I can fly...oh, let's say 500 hours on an
Aztec bought as scrap for under $25K. As an extra handicap, I'll make
it a turbo. I've got an annual inspection coming up soon, so let's
make the wager around $10K.

--kyler

[Dan Luke]

"Kyler Laird" wrote:
> Want to bet? I'll wager I can fly...oh, let's say 500 hours on an
> Aztec bought as scrap for under $25K.

Was this luck, or skill in recognizing a genuine bargain?
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

[Kyler Laird]

"Dan Luke" > writes:

>"Kyler Laird" wrote:
>> Want to bet? I'll wager I can fly...oh, let's say 500 hours on an
>> Aztec bought as scrap for under $25K.

>Was this luck, or skill in recognizing a genuine bargain?

Definitely not either. I attribute it to being stupid and stubborn.

--kyler

[Dan Luke]

"Kyler Laird" wrote:
I attribute it to being stupid and stubborn.

My strategy for living.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)