0-470"A"

[dan reilly]

i have a 49 ryan navion w/ an E-185 engine. i got my hands on an
0-470"A" engine that i would like to put into my plane. but the problem
is that the navion is only approved for the 0-470"P" "K" "H" "M" and not
the "A" 470. is there a way to make my 0-470"A" into a 0-470"P"? i know
the "P" has a pressure carb but i think the cyl's and crank are
different. any help would be appreciated.

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[Stu Gotts]

You may seek an engine shop who may have an STC, or get rid of this
engine and go with an approved one OR go with something bigger.

On 28 Dec 2003 21:03:46 GMT, dan reilly > wrote:

>i have a 49 ryan navion w/ an E-185 engine. i got my hands on an
>0-470"A" engine that i would like to put into my plane. but the problem
>is that the navion is only approved for the 0-470"P" "K" "H" "M" and not
>the "A" 470. is there a way to make my 0-470"A" into a 0-470"P"? i know
>the "P" has a pressure carb but i think the cyl's and crank are
>different. any help would be appreciated.
>
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>Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

[Bela P. Havasreti]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 18:01:56 -0600, Stu Gotts >
wrote:

For what it's worth, the Cessna 180 owners I know (early models) tend
to avoid the O-470A like the plague (the saying goes if it's an A, you
walk away, if it's a J, it's OK). Early C-180s originally came with
this engine and many owners of such have upgraded to the J, K, R, L,
etc.

Bela P. Havasreti

>You may seek an engine shop who may have an STC, or get rid of this
>engine and go with an approved one OR go with something bigger.
>
>On 28 Dec 2003 21:03:46 GMT, dan reilly > wrote:
>
>>i have a 49 ryan navion w/ an E-185 engine. i got my hands on an
>>0-470"A" engine that i would like to put into my plane. but the problem
>>is that the navion is only approved for the 0-470"P" "K" "H" "M" and not
>>the "A" 470. is there a way to make my 0-470"A" into a 0-470"P"? i know
>>the "P" has a pressure carb but i think the cyl's and crank are
>>different. any help would be appreciated.
>>
>>*** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
>>Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

[ROBIN FLY]

>if it's an A, you
>walk away, if it's a J, it's OK

Why the bad rep?

[rip]

Dan, don't waste your time. Take a look at the Type Certificate for the
Navion. If your heart is set on a 470, go with the IO470-C. It's almost
a drop in replacement for the E series engines, you can get parts for
them, they're on the TCDS so you won't require a form 337, and you gain
a few horsepower. Plus you can use a McCauley prop instead of the
devil-spawned abortions that Hartzell passes off as aircraft thrust
converters. Your other options are Continental IO520 and 550's, or the
Lyc. IO540. Any of them are better than what you are considering.

Rip
Navion 5186K

dan reilly wrote:
> i have a 49 ryan navion w/ an E-185 engine. i got my hands on an
> 0-470"A" engine that i would like to put into my plane. but the problem
> is that the navion is only approved for the 0-470"P" "K" "H" "M" and not
> the "A" 470. is there a way to make my 0-470"A" into a 0-470"P"? i know
> the "P" has a pressure carb but i think the cyl's and crank are
> different. any help would be appreciated.
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
> Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

[Ron Natalie]

"rip" > wrote in message . com...
> Dan, don't waste your time.

I agree. Also, I think he's wrong about engine compatibilities. There is NO
TC'd change for the O-470 of any variety although some of the L-17's did come
with them.

The eligible 470-series upgrades are the IO-470-C as Rip identified. It's
got the one small advantage in that it does not require your pre-B model to
have the fuselage beefed up. The down side is that I believe the Macauley
called out for that engine is a bit scarce these days. After that, you're looking
at the -H (260 HP) or the 520. All of the Navion s/n's are legit for these
upgrades as Rip says, without even a 337.

Going to the flanged crank means you can ditch the Hartzell bailout prop.
Of course, if you want a new (no AD's required) one for a GO-435, let me know. I've got a zero time
one sitting in my garage.

[ROBIN FLY]

>go with the IO470-C. It's almost
>a drop in replacement for the E series engines

It is my understanding that E engine uses different engine mounts than IO-470s.
Thus, E series Bonanza needs major modification, including different engine
mounts, to change from E engine to IO-470N. Why is it a "drop in" for Navion?

[Bela P. Havasreti]

On 29 Dec 2003 23:30:36 GMT, (ROBIN FLY) wrote:

Light-weight cylinders that tend to crack, and a light-weight
case that has a less than stellar rep. The following is of course
statistically insignificant, but I know of two O-470As in early C-180s
that literally came apart shortly after purchase (one on the ferry
flight home!).

A possible added "concern" is that TCM won't accept an O-470A
as a core (I think this has something to do with the old-style crank
that you'll find in an A)

Another operational "gotcha" with an A (or J for that matter) are the
2-bolt exhaust flanges, which tend to warp and then the exhaust
gases erode the cylinder mating surfaces. The K (R, L, etc.) went to
a 4-bolt exhaust flange which "fixes" this problem.

All that being said, I understand you can get new cylinder kits (for
an A) from TCM with 4-ring pistons that at least somewhat addresses
the cylinder problems.

Long story short, you won't find a great deal of O-470A powered C-180s
flying around any more these days (most everyone has upgraded to
at least the J, or better yet, the K, R or L, etc.).

Bela P. Havasreti

>>if it's an A, you
>>walk away, if it's a J, it's OK
>
>Why the bad rep?

[Ron Natalie]

"ROBIN FLY" > wrote in message ...
> >go with the IO470-C. It's almost
> >a drop in replacement for the E series engines
>
> It is my understanding that E engine uses different engine mounts than IO-470s.
> Thus, E series Bonanza needs major modification, including different engine
> mounts, to change from E engine to IO-470N. Why is it a "drop in" for Navion?
>
The Navion mount is different than the Bonanza. Essentially, it's just two beams
with short little legs that come up to hold the rubber mounts for the engine.
Some are drilled for both engines, those that aren't can be. You can even "drop in"
an IO-520. Or if you're really crazy a GO-435. All are on the TC. You can
even put a GO-480 (simple mod, but does require a 337). Most who go for the
larger engines put in a tubular mount instead. The advantages are that the new
bottom cowl makes maintenance a lot easier to the bottom side of the engine and
the cooling and drag issues with the new nose are much better. The down side is
that it destroys the classic navion lines and gets rid of the "smile". The other down
side is the guy who produces the most popular STC kit evidently is a bit cantankerous.
However, I talked sweetly to him and got my kit in less than three weeks (evidently
some kind of record).