Pre-heating

[Charles Talleyrand]

Our FBO (who are otherwise OK people) have a new policy. They will not
allow one to leave one's airplane's preheater plugged in continously. Instead, one must call them ahead of time and they will plug
it in for you. They charge $10 for this
service.

My questions are this: How long does it take to pre-heat an engine? And will pre-heating my engine prevent more than $10 of damage
per flight? Finally, how do you know? It's more reassuring to here from a mechanic than some tale that starts "My grandfather's
uncle noticed ..."

My particulars are

A Cessna 150
Tannis preheater
It's currently 30 degrees outside.
About 1500 SMOH

[MRQB]

I have block heaters on all my auto's prevents excessive wear on your
cylinders and oil pump and other parts. I even have battery warmer will make
your battery last longer.

Thick oil to your oil pump is like sucking a thick milkshake through a small
straw then blowing that thick milkshake through another straw that has even
smaller diameter.

The thick cold oil will not flow through the oil passages to the rod
bearings cam bearings ect as fast until it gets thinner causing excessive
engine ware. I know this is how it is in auto engines not sure about
aircraft engines.

one thing i have notices about the aircraft engines vs. auto engines is the
quality of workmanship and engineering of the crank housing the torque is
distributed thoughout the entire casting instead of just 1/2 of it and a
little main cap but that is another subject.

"Charles Talleyrand" > wrote in message
...
> Our FBO (who are otherwise OK people) have a new policy. They will not
> allow one to leave one's airplane's preheater plugged in continously.
Instead, one must call them ahead of time and they will plug
> it in for you. They charge $10 for this
> service.
>
> My questions are this: How long does it take to pre-heat an engine? And
will pre-heating my engine prevent more than $10 of damage
> per flight? Finally, how do you know? It's more reassuring to here from
a mechanic than some tale that starts "My grandfather's
> uncle noticed ..."
>
> My particulars are
>
> A Cessna 150
> Tannis preheater
> It's currently 30 degrees outside.
> About 1500 SMOH
>
>

[tony roberts]

> My questions are this: How long does it take to pre-heat an engine? And
> will pre-heating my engine prevent more than $10 of damage
> per flight? Finally, how do you know? It's more reassuring to here from a
> mechanic than some tale that starts "My grandfather's
> uncle noticed ..."

My grandfather's neighbours cousin once said that it would do less that
$10.00 of damage. Of course, $10.00 was worth a lot more then.
He also mentioned that the attitude you display when you ask your
question will dictate the quality and quantity of the responses.



--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument :)
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Roger Long]

Most of the wear in an aircraft engine happens during starts before the oil
starts flowing. Every normal start probably costs you ten bucks in a 152 or
172.

You can screw up an engine with a single cold start. It won't fail
immediately but you will change the metal surfaces so that it starts wearing
faster from then on.

The tenderest parts of Lycomings are the cams which are above the crankshaft
and lubricated primarily by splashing oil. Oil doesn't splash well until it
gets to about 60 degrees so the cams and other parts are basically running
for several minutes only on what stuck from the last flight.

Now that many people preheat religiously, much of the wear is probably
taking place in the fall and spring between freezing and 60 degrees.

People will tell you that so an so never pre-heated and his engine ran over
TBO. You'll also hear about engines opened up and found to have cam lobes
worn to where the valves were only opening a quarter of the way. Is that
the way you want to make the last dozen flights before your next overhaul?

--
Roger Long

[PaulaJay1]

In article >, "Charles Talleyrand"
> writes:

>Our FBO (who are otherwise OK people) have a new policy. They will not
>allow one to leave one's airplane's preheater plugged in continously.
>Instead, one must call them ahead of time and they will plug
>it in for you. They charge $10 for this
>service.

My FBO has the same policy though they don't charge for the plugin. They say
they have the policy because of the risk of fire. I find an hour or a little
more makes the engine feel warn to the touch. I have Tanis heaters.

Chuck

[Ron Natalie]

"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message ...

>
> My FBO has the same policy though they don't charge for the plugin. They say
> they have the policy because of the risk of fire. I find an hour or a little
> more makes the engine feel warn to the touch. I have Tanis heaters.
>
Do they run around and unscrew all the light bulbs on the field when they're not in
use? These heaters run very low amount of watts. Has anybody ever seen an
airplane catch fire from a block heater? As anybody ever seen a car (of which
in the permafrost sections of this country there are a lot more of) catch fire because
of a block heater?

[Jay Honeck]

> My FBO has the same policy though they don't charge for the plugin. They
say
> they have the policy because of the risk of fire. I find an hour or a
little
> more makes the engine feel warn to the touch. I have Tanis heaters.

Are we talking about HANGARED planes here? Or tied down?

I can perhaps understand not allowing "permanent plug-ins" for tied down
planes -- after all, the cords all over the ramp are a "trip hazard", if
nothing else.

But if they are telling you that you can't leave your plane plugged in
inside your own hangar, I'd tell them to get screwed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:16:53 GMT, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>Are we talking about HANGARED planes here? Or tied down?
>
>I can perhaps understand not allowing "permanent plug-ins" for tied down
>planes -- after all, the cords all over the ramp are a "trip hazard", if
>nothing else.
>
>But if they are telling you that you can't leave your plane plugged in
>inside your own hangar, I'd tell them to get screwed.
>--

When I was based at ASH, my a/c was outdoors at an "electric tiedown".
These were set up by the city, and they charged a bit more for the tiedown.
Everyone left their a/c plugged in; and yes, there were extension cords as
one "post" would supply four a/c.

So far as safety from shorts, etc., all of the outlets had GFCI plugs that
would trigger if there were any electrical shorts, grounds, problems, etc.
Sometimes they would trigger for no apparent reason, but that was rare.

A Tanis install on my four cylinder Mooney (four cylinder heaters plus the
oil) draws about 300 watts. That comes to about 220 kWh/month. With
electricity at, let us say, $0.10/kWh, the cost of leaving it plugged in
all the time would be $22/month.

But if the electricity "belongs" to the FBO, there's not much one can do
about it, except take one's business elsewhere, or complain to the landlord
if they are violating the terms of their lease.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[PaulaJay1]

In article <VxhIb.15664$xX.39639@attbi_s02>, "Jay Honeck"
> writes:

>I can perhaps understand not allowing "permanent plug-ins" for tied down
>planes -- after all, the cords all over the ramp are a "trip hazard", if
>nothing else.
>
>But if they are telling you that you can't leave your plane plugged in
>inside your own hangar, I'd tell them to get screwed.

It's in the big hanger with about 10 planes. They do all the in and out.

Chuck

[PaulaJay1]

In article >, "Ron Natalie"
> writes:

>My FBO has the same policy though they don't charge for the plugin. They say
>> they have the policy because of the risk of fire. I find an hour or a
>little
>> more makes the engine feel warn to the touch. I have Tanis heaters.
>>
>Do they run around and unscrew all the light bulbs on the field when they're
>not in
>use? These heaters run very low amount of watts. Has anybody ever seen an
>airplane catch fire from a block heater? As anybody ever seen a car (of
>which
>in the permafrost sections of this country there are a lot more of) catch
>fire because
>of a block heater?
>

Ron, I agree with you. But like the mice that are quick to decide that the cat
needs a bell. Now which one of them is going the bell the cat. The owner of
the private airport where I keep my plane hangered for $100 per month has this
rule. There is no water in the hanger and no one in attendance at night. I
can't tell him he is wrong.

Chuck

[J]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:17:03 -0500, Charles Talleyrand wrote:

> Our FBO (who are otherwise OK people) have a new policy. They will not
> allow one to leave one's airplane's preheater plugged in continously. Instead, one must call them ahead of time and they will plug
> it in for you. They charge $10 for this
> service.
>
> My questions are this: How long does it take to pre-heat an engine? And will pre-heating my engine prevent more than $10 of damage
> per flight? Finally, how do you know? It's more reassuring to here from a mechanic than some tale that starts "My grandfather's
> uncle noticed ..."

I suggest you join the Cessna Pilot's Association and send them a
question about this issue. John Frank has done some research on this
subject. The damage caused from a single start in really cold weather is
quite amazing.