Fuel Truck

[Mike Rapoport]

I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I have
been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew of
other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
Thanks!

Mike
MU-2

[Dave Butler]

You've been checking Trade-A-Plane, right?

Mike Rapoport wrote:
> I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I have
> been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew of
> other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
> MU-2

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[Jim]

First start talking to the wholesale fuel distributors in the area, they get
around and will know if there is a retailer such as a home heating oil
distributor or a farm fuel supplier that currently has one for sale. Ask
them where they have maintenance done on their trucks, talk to those people
also. There are plenty of companies that specialize in putting together the
truck, tank, and pump units. These people always have used trucks for sale.
Large farms or vegetable processing companies are always
buying/selling/leasing fuel trucks. Check out the Commercial Drivers
License laws concerning carrying fuel, they may limit the size of truck that
you want to buy. Also remember to think of the weight laws, 10,000 gallons
would be a semi trailer and may be overweight. We usually are limited to
loads of about 8000 gal for diesel fuel, otherwise the truck is overloaded.
You've already checked Ritchie Bros, a great source for auctions with heavy
equipment, that's a good line of thinking. Check with the heavy equipment
dealers in your area. You can also buy a used truck and have a custom made
tank fabricated. If you can find a truck from a southern area it would be
best, less rust due to road salt. We just bought 3 used trucks to haul
potatoes that were once garbage trucks, they came out of Arkansas and look
great. We found them on the web, figure out the specs you want and keep
searching. Stay away from anything with a Cat V-8 diesel or a GM 2-cycle
diesel. High rpms aren't good for diesel engines unless they are in
airplanes.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I
have
> been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew of
> other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

Yes but I am really more interested in being able to follow auctions to get
a feel for valuation. Once I have a feel for the market, I will look at
all sources.

Mike
MU-2


"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
...
> You've been checking Trade-A-Plane, right?
>
> Mike Rapoport wrote:
> > I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I
have
> > been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew
of
> > other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
>
> Remove SHIRT to reply directly.
>

[Ben Smith]

I'd agree with the previous posters, and check with the local fuel
wholesalers.. They should definately know someone out there who might be
itching to sell a truck.. They could also give good information on what
'other' aspects you'll need to cover such as needing a CDL, Hazmat permits,
and other red tape.

Will this be to buy your own bulk fuel for the MU-2? Any idea where you
will store the truck, and if there are insurance / legal concerns with it?

Hopefully it'll all work out for you. So far, looks like buying the truck
will be the easiest part!

--
Ben
C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y

[Mike Rapoport]

Thanks for all the good advice! I plan to take fuel delivery at the airport
and never operate the truck on public roads. I only want the large truck so
that I can buy enough fuel at a time to get favorable delivery charges.
Would the Cat diesel or GM2 stroke be a problem if we are not going to drive
on the road? We will have a couple of guys in on the truck as partners and
our hangers are less than 1/3 mile apart.

The big truck is one option but we would also consider a 2000 gallon truck
that we would lease to the FBO. We would take fuel at cost in lieu of a
lease payment. If we do that option, we would need a better truck as it
would get more driving use.

Mike
MU-2


"Jim" > wrote in message
...
> First start talking to the wholesale fuel distributors in the area, they
get
> around and will know if there is a retailer such as a home heating oil
> distributor or a farm fuel supplier that currently has one for sale. Ask
> them where they have maintenance done on their trucks, talk to those
people
> also. There are plenty of companies that specialize in putting together
the
> truck, tank, and pump units. These people always have used trucks for
sale.
> Large farms or vegetable processing companies are always
> buying/selling/leasing fuel trucks. Check out the Commercial Drivers
> License laws concerning carrying fuel, they may limit the size of truck
that
> you want to buy. Also remember to think of the weight laws, 10,000
gallons
> would be a semi trailer and may be overweight. We usually are limited to
> loads of about 8000 gal for diesel fuel, otherwise the truck is
overloaded.
> You've already checked Ritchie Bros, a great source for auctions with
heavy
> equipment, that's a good line of thinking. Check with the heavy equipment
> dealers in your area. You can also buy a used truck and have a custom
made
> tank fabricated. If you can find a truck from a southern area it would be
> best, less rust due to road salt. We just bought 3 used trucks to haul
> potatoes that were once garbage trucks, they came out of Arkansas and look
> great. We found them on the web, figure out the specs you want and keep
> searching. Stay away from anything with a Cat V-8 diesel or a GM 2-cycle
> diesel. High rpms aren't good for diesel engines unless they are in
> airplanes.
> --
> Jim Burns III
>
> Remove "nospam" to reply
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I
> have
> > been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew
of
> > other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Ron Natalie]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message nk.net...
> I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I have
> been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew of
> other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> Thanks!
>
Always some in Trade-A-Plane each month.

[Nathan Young]

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:57:37 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> wrote:

>I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I have
>been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew of
>other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
>Thanks!

For fueling the MU2? That's a creative way to save some bucks.

Morris airport in Illinois just added huge self-serve tanks to the
field. Not sure if they are keeping their trucks, but it might be
worth a phone call as they appear to be relatively new and in good
condition). Morris airport is at: 815-942-1600

You can see a picture of the trucks in the background of this photo:
http://www.needlescentered.com/needles_images/morris_800x600.jpg

Hell, I'd drive the thing out to Utah or Idaho, or wherever you live,
if you fly me back to Chicago in the MU2.

-Nathan

[Ben Jackson]

In article t>,
Mike Rapoport > wrote:
>I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred.

You're just fueling one plane, right? Why not a stationary tank? If
it can't be a permanent structure, you could just get a semi trailer
tank and park it. Hire a trucking company if you ever need to move it.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Mike Rapoport]

"Ben Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I'd agree with the previous posters, and check with the local fuel
> wholesalers.. They should definately know someone out there who might be
> itching to sell a truck.. They could also give good information on what
> 'other' aspects you'll need to cover such as needing a CDL, Hazmat
permits,
> and other red tape.
>
Thanks! I don't plan to drive on public roads.


> Will this be to buy your own bulk fuel for the MU-2? Any idea where you
> will store the truck, and if there are insurance / legal concerns with it?
>

The truck would be stored outside on a hanger apron.

There is no fuel truck at SZT anymore, only self serve, and there are
several hangers, including mine, diagonally across the airport from the
pumps. It is a PITA and expensive to taxi over to the pumps particularly
for an early AM departure. If it is snowing the airplane may need to be
deiced after refueling. Also I prefer to have the plane fueled the night
before departure and I don't want to taxi back from the fuel pumps turn the
plane around and push it back into the hanger.

With the increased 179 deduction we can expense the truck the first year and
the fuel cost savings should more than pay for the balance

>and if there are insurance / legal concerns with it?

This is something we will have to factor in but if the truck is not used on
public roads I don't think that it will be a major hurdle.
Mike
MU-2


> Hopefully it'll all work out for you. So far, looks like buying the
truck
> will be the easiest part!
>
> --
> Ben
> C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y
>
>

[Jim]

I wouldn't touch either a Cat 3208 or a GM 2 cycle, even if it sits. You
may consider a gas engine if it gets very cold out there.

Here ya go:
South Dakota Wheat Growers
1993 International Fuel Truck 229,612 miles 2200ga tank, 5 compartments
$23,000
http://www.sdwg.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=35.


1982 Ford tractor/trailer 4000 gal $$7000 but it's in VA
http://www.skydiveorange.com/truck.htm

Here's some more but they are in Sask. Can., but they give you some ideas
what to look for.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?G5CB23D07

and a bunch more:
http://www.senecatank.com/rootweb/used.htm



--
Jim Burns III


Remove "nospam" to reply
"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Thanks for all the good advice! I plan to take fuel delivery at the
airport
> and never operate the truck on public roads. I only want the large truck
so
> that I can buy enough fuel at a time to get favorable delivery charges.
> Would the Cat diesel or GM2 stroke be a problem if we are not going to
drive
> on the road? We will have a couple of guys in on the truck as partners
and
> our hangers are less than 1/3 mile apart.
>
> The big truck is one option but we would also consider a 2000 gallon truck
> that we would lease to the FBO. We would take fuel at cost in lieu of a
> lease payment. If we do that option, we would need a better truck as it
> would get more driving use.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> "Jim" > wrote in message
> ...
> > First start talking to the wholesale fuel distributors in the area, they
> get
> > around and will know if there is a retailer such as a home heating oil
> > distributor or a farm fuel supplier that currently has one for sale.
Ask
> > them where they have maintenance done on their trucks, talk to those
> people
> > also. There are plenty of companies that specialize in putting together
> the
> > truck, tank, and pump units. These people always have used trucks for
> sale.
> > Large farms or vegetable processing companies are always
> > buying/selling/leasing fuel trucks. Check out the Commercial Drivers
> > License laws concerning carrying fuel, they may limit the size of truck
> that
> > you want to buy. Also remember to think of the weight laws, 10,000
> gallons
> > would be a semi trailer and may be overweight. We usually are limited
to
> > loads of about 8000 gal for diesel fuel, otherwise the truck is
> overloaded.
> > You've already checked Ritchie Bros, a great source for auctions with
> heavy
> > equipment, that's a good line of thinking. Check with the heavy
equipment
> > dealers in your area. You can also buy a used truck and have a custom
> made
> > tank fabricated. If you can find a truck from a southern area it would
be
> > best, less rust due to road salt. We just bought 3 used trucks to haul
> > potatoes that were once garbage trucks, they came out of Arkansas and
look
> > great. We found them on the web, figure out the specs you want and keep
> > searching. Stay away from anything with a Cat V-8 diesel or a GM
2-cycle
> > diesel. High rpms aren't good for diesel engines unless they are in
> > airplanes.
> > --
> > Jim Burns III
> >
> > Remove "nospam" to reply
> >
> > "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > > I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred.
I
> > have
> > > been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone
knew
> of
> > > other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > MU-2
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Jim]

Your partnership would have to have a taxable income greater than the 179
deduction to qualify for the deduction.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Ben Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'd agree with the previous posters, and check with the local fuel
> > wholesalers.. They should definately know someone out there who might
be
> > itching to sell a truck.. They could also give good information on what
> > 'other' aspects you'll need to cover such as needing a CDL, Hazmat
> permits,
> > and other red tape.
> >
> Thanks! I don't plan to drive on public roads.
>
>
> > Will this be to buy your own bulk fuel for the MU-2? Any idea where you
> > will store the truck, and if there are insurance / legal concerns with
it?
> >
>
> The truck would be stored outside on a hanger apron.
>
> There is no fuel truck at SZT anymore, only self serve, and there are
> several hangers, including mine, diagonally across the airport from the
> pumps. It is a PITA and expensive to taxi over to the pumps particularly
> for an early AM departure. If it is snowing the airplane may need to be
> deiced after refueling. Also I prefer to have the plane fueled the night
> before departure and I don't want to taxi back from the fuel pumps turn
the
> plane around and push it back into the hanger.
>
> With the increased 179 deduction we can expense the truck the first year
and
> the fuel cost savings should more than pay for the balance
>
> >and if there are insurance / legal concerns with it?
>
> This is something we will have to factor in but if the truck is not used
on
> public roads I don't think that it will be a major hurdle.
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> > Hopefully it'll all work out for you. So far, looks like buying the
> truck
> > will be the easiest part!
> >
> > --
> > Ben
> > C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y
> >
> >
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:57:37 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> > wrote:
>
> >I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I
have
> >been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew
of
> >other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> >Thanks!
>
> For fueling the MU2? That's a creative way to save some bucks.
>
> Morris airport in Illinois just added huge self-serve tanks to the
> field. Not sure if they are keeping their trucks, but it might be
> worth a phone call as they appear to be relatively new and in good
> condition). Morris airport is at: 815-942-1600
>
> You can see a picture of the trucks in the background of this photo:
> http://www.needlescentered.com/needles_images/morris_800x600.jpg
>
> Hell, I'd drive the thing out to Utah or Idaho, or wherever you live,
> if you fly me back to Chicago in the MU2.
>
You got it! Is that your Cessna in the picture?

Mike
MU-2


> -Nathan

[Mike Rapoport]

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:UiVMb.44612$8H.98932@attbi_s03...
> In article t>,
> Mike Rapoport > wrote:
> >I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred.
>
> You're just fueling one plane, right? Why not a stationary tank? If
> it can't be a permanent structure, you could just get a semi trailer
> tank and park it. Hire a trucking company if you ever need to move it.

There will actually be a couple of planes and owners. I have thought about
a trailer but does a tailer have a pump? A trailer has a lot of advantages
such as being able to hire a trucker to take it to be filled.

Mike
MU-2

> --
> Ben Jackson
> >
> http://www.ben.com/

[Ben Jackson]

In article t>,
Mike Rapoport > wrote:
>
>There will actually be a couple of planes and owners. I have thought about
>a trailer but does a tailer have a pump? A trailer has a lot of advantages
>such as being able to hire a trucker to take it to be filled.

There must be some types that have pumps. Not all stationary tanks
are underground. You might be able to gravity-feed Joe's Gas'n'Go but
a lot of avgas tanks are freestanding. They may not be suitable for
transferring to an aircraft, though. The guy who comes around to check
the meter at my home airport drives a pickup with a itty bitty trailer
which is about half pump and about half hosereel. He needs it to pump
the 100 gallons he takes out for calibration back in.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Nathan Young]

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:22:17 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> wrote:

>"Nathan Young" > wrote in message

>> You can see a picture of the trucks in the background of this photo:
>> http://www.needlescentered.com/needles_images/morris_800x600.jpg
>>
>> Hell, I'd drive the thing out to Utah or Idaho, or wherever you live,
>> if you fly me back to Chicago in the MU2.
>>
>You got it! Is that your Cessna in the picture?

Nope, but I thought it was a nice looking 170, so I took the picture
last time I flew into Morris for lunch.

-Nathan

[John Galban]

"Jim" > wrote in message >...
> We just bought 3 used trucks to haul
> potatoes that were once garbage trucks, they came out of Arkansas and look
> great.

Thanks Jim. That's one of the least appetizing posts I've seen on
rec.aviation in awhile. I might add that I had just finished eating
a baked potato when I read the post.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Tom Sixkiller]

"John Galban" > wrote in message
om...
> "Jim" > wrote in message
>...
> > We just bought 3 used trucks to haul
> > potatoes that were once garbage trucks, they came out of Arkansas and
look
> > great.
>
> Thanks Jim. That's one of the least appetizing posts I've seen on
> rec.aviation in awhile. I might add that I had just finished eating
> a baked potato when I read the post.
>

A baked potatoe?

[Robert Bates]

I agree with Ben, it shouldn't be too hard to find a tank trailer. If you
need to move it around the field, a large old ( inexpensive )farm tractor
would pull it, the tractor PTO could drive a pump, and it could also pull
the MU 2 out of the hanger.


"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:_cXMb.45018$na.36537@attbi_s04...
> In article t>,
> Mike Rapoport > wrote:
> >
> >There will actually be a couple of planes and owners. I have thought
about
> >a trailer but does a tailer have a pump? A trailer has a lot of
advantages
> >such as being able to hire a trucker to take it to be filled.
>
> There must be some types that have pumps. Not all stationary tanks
> are underground. You might be able to gravity-feed Joe's Gas'n'Go but
> a lot of avgas tanks are freestanding. They may not be suitable for
> transferring to an aircraft, though. The guy who comes around to check
> the meter at my home airport drives a pickup with a itty bitty trailer
> which is about half pump and about half hosereel. He needs it to pump
> the 100 gallons he takes out for calibration back in.
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> >
> http://www.ben.com/

[Dick Meade]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> The truck would be stored outside on a hanger apron.

Mike,

I believe that EPA has or is in the process of mandating containment for
mobile refuelers. A few other points to consider:

Jet-A loves water and allows bacterial growth. Prist, in addition to being
an antifreeze, is an anti-bacterial. Jet in storage needs to be circulated
to keep the Prist properly mixed. Additionally, there are fairly rigid
standards regarding filtration of Jet fuel. These standards are insurance
driven, which brings up another point. If your FBO's arrangement is
typical, they carry liability insurance for the first part of a claim.
Excess liability coverage is provided by the fuel supplier. This coverage
is contingent on the proper storage and conditioning of the fuel. Ours
refused to sell us fuel unless the system met their standards. Look at the
Jet fuel system sometime. Note the filters and valving. It is set up to be
able to circulate and filter the fuel in the tank. As the fuel is
off-loaded from the delivery truck, it is filtered. As it is delivered into
your plane, it is also filtered. Any tanker that stores fuel should have
the same capability.

The tanker will also have to be epoxy coated in the inside to prevent rust.
If you buy a jet refueler, it should already be set up correctly with epoxy
and filtration, but that should be verified. Your FBO's fuel supplier
should be happy to explain their requirements for fuel handling. You
probably would want to "donate" the truck to the FBO in return for low fuel
rates, just to avoid the hassles and potential liability. Alternatively, a
variation on the "Mighty Grape" might better fit your needs, even if it took
a couple of trips to fuel the plane.

I had to research this 3 years ago when the company I work for bought a
Citation Bravo. We ultimately abandoned the refueler idea, and opted to buy
a 10,000 gallon Jet system, which we donated to the city. In return, we buy
fuel at a deep discount for a specific length of time. Avgas systems are
dirt simple in comparison.

If you're still looking at refuelers, Aero-Trader has a 2,000 gallon truck
in the current issue. 817 area code puts it in the Ft. Worth area.

Hope this is helpful,

Dick Meade

[Ron Natalie]

"Dick Meade" > wrote in message ...

>
> Jet-A loves water and allows bacterial growth. Prist, in addition to being
> an antifreeze, is an anti-bacterial.

Of course, Prist can no longer make this claim because the EPA has made it
commercially prohibitive to certify something as a pesticide. It's officially
an anti-icing additive...if you no longer have to worry about crud growing in
your fuel, all the better.

While bacteria will grow in the fuel, it's actually fungus (Hormoconis Resinae)
that's the real problem. It's not just the water but the fact that this bugger likes
to eat the fuel. The bacteria tends to stay with the water and thus is removed
by the normal water traps...and filling up with fresh fuel alleviates the problem.
The fungus likes to hang out on the surfaces in your tank and you'll continue
to have an infestation until you actively put something in to kill it.

[Mike Rapoport]

Thanks, I was aware of most of these issues but not the containment one. I
agree that the best approach is to lease or donate the truck in return for
low cost fuel. I am also considering a fixed site system but then I would
need to buy the land and pay property taxes on it forever as well as
maintain the system.

Mike
MU-2



"Dick Meade" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > The truck would be stored outside on a hanger apron.
>
> Mike,
>
> I believe that EPA has or is in the process of mandating containment for
> mobile refuelers. A few other points to consider:
>
> Jet-A loves water and allows bacterial growth. Prist, in addition to
being
> an antifreeze, is an anti-bacterial. Jet in storage needs to be
circulated
> to keep the Prist properly mixed. Additionally, there are fairly rigid
> standards regarding filtration of Jet fuel. These standards are insurance
> driven, which brings up another point. If your FBO's arrangement is
> typical, they carry liability insurance for the first part of a claim.
> Excess liability coverage is provided by the fuel supplier. This coverage
> is contingent on the proper storage and conditioning of the fuel. Ours
> refused to sell us fuel unless the system met their standards. Look at
the
> Jet fuel system sometime. Note the filters and valving. It is set up to
be
> able to circulate and filter the fuel in the tank. As the fuel is
> off-loaded from the delivery truck, it is filtered. As it is delivered
into
> your plane, it is also filtered. Any tanker that stores fuel should have
> the same capability.
>
> The tanker will also have to be epoxy coated in the inside to prevent
rust.
> If you buy a jet refueler, it should already be set up correctly with
epoxy
> and filtration, but that should be verified. Your FBO's fuel supplier
> should be happy to explain their requirements for fuel handling. You
> probably would want to "donate" the truck to the FBO in return for low
fuel
> rates, just to avoid the hassles and potential liability. Alternatively,
a
> variation on the "Mighty Grape" might better fit your needs, even if it
took
> a couple of trips to fuel the plane.
>
> I had to research this 3 years ago when the company I work for bought a
> Citation Bravo. We ultimately abandoned the refueler idea, and opted to
buy
> a 10,000 gallon Jet system, which we donated to the city. In return, we
buy
> fuel at a deep discount for a specific length of time. Avgas systems are
> dirt simple in comparison.
>
> If you're still looking at refuelers, Aero-Trader has a 2,000 gallon truck
> in the current issue. 817 area code puts it in the Ft. Worth area.
>
> Hope this is helpful,
>
> Dick Meade
>
>
>
>
>
>

[rip]

I've got two trucks you can have for a song. Seriously. E-mail me if
interested (remove nospam, of course).
Rip

Mike Rapoport wrote:
> I would like to buy a fuel truck! 5,000 to 10,000 gallon preferred. I have
> been watching ebay and rbauction.com and I was wondering if anyone knew of
> other sources? How can I find out if the government is selling one?
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
>