About time -- Comanche 250

[Tony]

Well we finally went and paid for our new bird. A 1964 Comanche 250.
After months of deciding to buy it or get a small plane. We went down as
they were doing the annual on it. All turned out good. All compression
72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and
what ever else comes along the way. Does anyone have or fly one? How
much per hour would you say it runs? Insurance, Cost? I got it with only
150 hours and no retract for 2400 a year though AOPA. If anyone can help
me along the way with onwership with there experiences? DO's and Dont's?
All will help thanks?

Tony
N8389P

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[David H]

ony wrote:

> Well we finally went and paid for our new bird. A 1964 Comanche 250.
> After months of deciding to buy it or get a small plane. We went down as
> they were doing the annual on it. All turned out good. All compression
> 72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
> projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and
> what ever else comes along the way. Does anyone have or fly one? How
> much per hour would you say it runs? Insurance, Cost? I got it with only
> 150 hours and no retract for 2400 a year though AOPA. If anyone can help
> me along the way with onwership with there experiences? DO's and Dont's?
> All will help thanks?

Wow, sounds like a lot of basic questions that might have been answered
before taking the leap, but who am I to judge? As to getting your
questions answered, I'd suggest looking up a Comanche owners type club or
similar organization. A quick Google turns up several (perhaps competing)
organizations for Comanche owners and enthusiasts. Go find them, they will
be your best source of info.

Congrats on the new plane and good luck with the great adventure ahead.

David H
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Visit the Pacific Northwest Flying forum:
http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/pnwflying

[Jeff]

how many hours of dual they making you do?

Tony wrote:

> Well we finally went and paid for our new bird. A 1964 Comanche 250.
> After months of deciding to buy it or get a small plane. We went down as
> they were doing the annual on it. All turned out good. All compression
> 72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
> projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and
> what ever else comes along the way. Does anyone have or fly one? How
> much per hour would you say it runs? Insurance, Cost? I got it with only
> 150 hours and no retract for 2400 a year though AOPA. If anyone can help
> me along the way with onwership with there experiences? DO's and Dont's?
> All will help thanks?
>
> Tony
> N8389P
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
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[Ray Bengen]

Join the Comanche Society and the Forum.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/ComancheFlyer/messages


"Tony" > wrote in message
...
> Well we finally went and paid for our new bird. A 1964 Comanche 250.
> After months of deciding to buy it or get a small plane. We went down as
> they were doing the annual on it. All turned out good. All compression
> 72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
> projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and
> what ever else comes along the way. Does anyone have or fly one? How
> much per hour would you say it runs? Insurance, Cost? I got it with only
> 150 hours and no retract for 2400 a year though AOPA. If anyone can help
> me along the way with onwership with there experiences? DO's and Dont's?
> All will help thanks?
>
> Tony
> N8389P
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
> Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

[Doug]

The Commache 250 that was on the line here was famous for picking up
CARB ICE at any time. It would even ice up if it were under full
power! So use your carb heat and make sure it is working properly. I
have talked to other Commache owners who report the same thing. I
don't know why the Commache's Lycoming 540 tends to pick up carb ice
so easily, but keep that one in mind.

Tony > wrote in message >...
> Well we finally went and paid for our new bird. A 1964 Comanche 250.
> After months of deciding to buy it or get a small plane. We went down as
> they were doing the annual on it. All turned out good. All compression
> 72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
> projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and
> what ever else comes along the way. Does anyone have or fly one? How
> much per hour would you say it runs? Insurance, Cost? I got it with only
> 150 hours and no retract for 2400 a year though AOPA. If anyone can help
> me along the way with onwership with there experiences? DO's and Dont's?
> All will help thanks?
>
> Tony
> N8389P
>
> *** Sent via http://www.automationtools.com ***
> Add a newsgroup interface to your website today.

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Tony > wrote:
>72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
>projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and

Well, if you're doing all that it might be a drop in the bucket, but
I'd say fly it for a while before deciding you need a vernier throttle.
For one thing, it will be very expensive because the low-throttle
gear warning horn is a mechanical monstrosity that is part of the
throttle assembly.

>me along the way with onwership with there experiences? DO's and Dont's?

Join ICS (International Comanche Society). Always always set the trim
before takeoff (landing trim and takeoff trim are no where near each
other). Check the floor behind the gear lever before you put the gear
up. Put the gear down before you land. Rest your fingertip on the gear
knob while it's going down so you can feel it lock into place. Mind
your airspeed on final. Don't let a Cessna-driving CFI talk you into
doing short field landings 5-6kt slower than normal landings (the AFM
calls for 2mph, btw).

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Tony]

10 hours of dual

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[Jeff]

sounds like they gave you a good deal.
I know a guy with a comanche 260 that had to get 20 hours dual and had
alot more hours.

Tony wrote:

> 10 hours of dual
>
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[Newps]

> "Tony" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Well we finally went and paid for our new bird. A 1964 Comanche 250.
>>After months of deciding to buy it or get a small plane. We went down as
>>they were doing the annual on it. All turned out good. All compression
>>72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
>>projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and
>>what ever else comes along the way. Does anyone have or fly one? How
>>much per hour would you say it runs? Insurance, Cost? I got it with only
>>150 hours and no retract for 2400 a year though AOPA. If anyone can help
>>me along the way with onwership with there experiences? DO's and Dont's?
>>All will help thanks?

Vernier throttle? What the hell would you want one of those for if you
don't have a turbo?

[Tony]

The throttle was real stiff and my dad just wants to change it out. We
have an A&P to do work on the plane (he does lots of comanches)for
flying time and he said its no problem to change it, it take about 2
hours

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[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Tony > wrote:
>The throttle was real stiff and my dad just wants to change it out. We
>have an A&P to do work on the plane (he does lots of comanches)for
>flying time and he said its no problem to change it, it take about 2
>hours

Mine was also stiff when I got it, and about a week after I replaced
it there was a cold snap and the mixture siezed up on me. If that's
at all stiff you might as well replace it while you're in there.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[AethelredII]

Hmmmm, I have 1000's of hrs in 250's and fly out of Montana and Wyoming. NEVER
once have I EVER picked up carb ice. Ever. I have never had to pull carb heat
on landing EVER! The 540 manual says don't pull carb heat unless you get carb
ice! (I thought that was why they ran the intake through the oil pan)?

In over 10 years of flying 250's I have never pulled carb heat. except on every
run up.

When I fly my 206 I pull carb heat for landing all the time. Hmmm, that's what
the Cessna book says to do.

Maybe I just got a good 540. But I know may of my 250 friends that must have
gotten good ones too, as they have never, ever had carb ice problems.

Ae

[karl]

*****The throttle was real stiff and my dad just wants to change it out. We
have an A&P to do work on the plane (he does lots of comanches)for
flying time and he said its no problem to change it, it take about 2
hours*******

Buy what FAA approved authorization will the "mechanic?" use to change the
engine control system? He sounds like an idiot to me.

Is there a STC for this?

Are you planning to get a field approval for this unauthorized modification?

You can't just "willy nilly" change critical control systems on aircraft
certified in the "normal" category without FAA approval. I doubt if they
would give such approval without an STC.

If it is stiff when cold, why doesn't your "mechanic?" just fix it properly?

Karl

[Ron Natalie]

"karl" > wrote in message ...
]
> Buy what FAA approved authorization will the "mechanic?" use to change the
> engine control system? He sounds like an idiot to me.
>
> Is there a STC for this?
>
> Are you planning to get a field approval for this unauthorized modification?

What on earth are you talking about. It's just a piece of control cable. You
order another one. Chances are this one is gummed up dirt or someone kinked
it somewhere with some hamfisted maintenance. You don't need STC's to replace
parts.

[karl]

*****What on earth are you talking about*****

He is changing a throttle cable from push-pull to vernier.

What are you talking about, Ron?


Karl

[Ron Natalie]

"karl" > wrote in message ...
> *****What on earth are you talking about*****
>
> He is changing a throttle cable from push-pull to vernier.
>
> What are you talking about, Ron?
>
>
OK, I missed that, but still hardly a major modification.

[karl]

****OK, I missed that, but still hardly a major modification*****

Dream on Ron. Changing the system by which the engine is controlled is at
least, very least, a major modification. There are numerous failure
scenarios I can think of.


Karl

[Ron Natalie]

"karl" > wrote in message ...
> ****OK, I missed that, but still hardly a major modification*****
>
> Dream on Ron. Changing the system by which the engine is controlled is at
> least, very least, a major modification. There are numerous failure
> scenarios I can think of.

"The system" is just a push-pull cable. Crikes, sticking a vernier twister
on the panel end is not a major change in the design. You want to go get
a 337 before you put fuel in the plane, that's fine by me, but it's not required.

[Mike Ciholas]

Tony > wrote in message >...
> The throttle was real stiff and my dad just wants to change it out. We
> have an A&P to do work on the plane (he does lots of comanches)for
> flying time and he said its no problem to change it, it take about 2
> hours

I purchase a Comanche 260B, 1966 model, in 1993. Did an initial $10K
annual on it during which I replaced all three engine controls with
new venier controls. I move the controls to be in the correct order
(throttle, prop, mixture) and selected new controls with correct shape
and color coding. I never flew the airplane prior to that so I was
never "confused" :-). I had the change field approved, form 337. I
think the controls were from ACS, maybe purchased from Webco (you'll
want to know those guys). The tail number was N9059P, so you can find
the 337 in the FAA registry somewhere if you want to do the same
thing.

As to a venier throttle, I've got 1500 hours with one now (Comanche
260B, then T210L). I'd say you get used to it either way. I like
being able to give a slight twist to add or take an inch of manifold
pressure. I'm used to grasping it in such a way as to push in the
release. I do that for landings or in prep for go around.

The Comanche is a sweet airplane. Nice control feel, good performance
(out flys my T210L by a noticeable margin unless I'm way up high).
Can be tricky to land smoothly!

--
Mike Ciholas (812) 476-2721 x101
CIHOLAS Enterprises (812) 476-2881 fax
255 S. Garvin St, Suite B
Evansville, IN 47713 http://www.ciholas.com

[CriticalMass]

Newps wrote:

> Vernier throttle? What the hell would you want one of those for if
> you don't have a turbo?


To do away with all the loosening and retightening of the damned locknut
on the prehistoric factory throttle, for one reason. Another reason is
to match the throttle to the already existing vernier prop and mixture
controls. Need more reasons?

[CriticalMass]

Ben Jackson wrote:

>In article >,
>Tony > wrote:
>
>
>>72/80 with only 10 hours on the plane in the last year. Our first
>>projects are: Paint, interior, new panel, and a venire throttle, and
>>
>>
>
>Well, if you're doing all that it might be a drop in the bucket, but
>I'd say fly it for a while before deciding you need a vernier throttle.
>For one thing, it will be very expensive because the low-throttle
>gear warning horn is a mechanical monstrosity that is part of the
>throttle assembly.
>

Webco sells them for $209
<http://www.webcoaircraft.com/cat-front.html>. "Very expensive" is a
relative term, but, trust me, that will not be among the most expensive
maintenance items for a Comanche owner (I am one).

The vernier throttle works with the existing warning horn, although I
ditched that a while back for the voice warning system through the audio
panel, which takes the place of the factory horn you never hear anyway
with headphones on.

[CriticalMass]

Tony wrote:

>The throttle was real stiff and my dad just wants to change it out. We
>have an A&P to do work on the plane (he does lots of comanches)for
>flying time and he said its no problem to change it, it take about 2
>hours
>


Time to replace it, and vernier's the way to go. Stiff means the
strands of the cable are starting to break inside the cable housing,
rubbing and causing friction inside the housing. I had the same thing
happen to mine.

[Tony]

We orderd the throttel from Webco and there is no trouble with putting
it in and getting it approved. Webco sends in the 337 and my A&P will
install it, And he wrights it off and sends it in to the FAA, and sings
the log book. DONE go fly(hs and IA also)

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[CriticalMass]

Tony wrote:

>We orderd the throttel from Webco and there is no trouble with putting
>it in and getting it approved. Webco sends in the 337 and my A&P will
>install it, And he wrights it off and sends it in to the FAA, and sings
>the log book. DONE go fly(hs and IA also)
>


Yes, I don't even remember anything about the paperwork. It was a
non-event for me, the owner. The shop took care of everything, and had
no trouble with the FAA doing it.

Where are you located? I need a new shop to work on my airplane, and I
saw in one of your earlier posts that yours "does lots of Comanches".
That makes a difference.

[Mike Z.]

Maybe less moisture there.

Here in Michigan they are ice makers. No big deal. Just nice to know.

Mike Z

"AethelredII" > wrote in message ...
> Hmmmm, I have 1000's of hrs in 250's and fly out of Montana and Wyoming. NEVER
> once have I EVER picked up carb ice. Ever. I have never had to pull carb heat
> on landing EVER! The 540 manual says don't pull carb heat unless you get carb
> ice! (I thought that was why they ran the intake through the oil pan)?
>
> In over 10 years of flying 250's I have never pulled carb heat. except on every
> run up.
>
> When I fly my 206 I pull carb heat for landing all the time. Hmmm, that's what
> the Cessna book says to do.
>
> Maybe I just got a good 540. But I know may of my 250 friends that must have
> gotten good ones too, as they have never, ever had carb ice problems.
>
> Ae