Mode-S for spam cans?

[Roy Smith]

My club has started thinking about putting Mode-S transponders in our
aircraft (3 Archers, 2 Arrows, 2 Bonanzas), to take advantage of traffic
advisory information.

Does anybody here have Mode-S in their plane now? Do you make use of
the traffic info? How well does it work? How easy is it to use? What
do you display the info on?

Is the technology mature enough to invest in today, or do we risk being
on the bleeding edge? One possible route we're thinking of is not
investing wholesale in Mode-S, but waiting for our existing xponders to
die and specify Mode-S in the replacement units.

We're slowly moving towards MFDs in all our planes. Right now, out of 7
planes, we've got one MX-20, one CNX-80, and we're probaby looking at
two more CNX-80's before the summer. How does the traffic info interact
with the other displays? Does it just over-lay the moving map? Do you
need to dedicate a display to traffic?

We've got two schools of thought as to where traffic info would do the
most good, i.e. on a limited budget, which planes do we start equipping
with it first. One school says put it int the Bonanza because it's the
fastest mover. Higher airspeed, less time to see and react to traffic.

On the other hand, the Bonanzas are the most likely to be doing
high-altitude straight line legs from one place to another, so pilot
workload is low most of the time, and ATC is watching (either IFR or VFR
flight following). The Archers are more likely to be low down where
there's lots of traffic, doing training maneuvers without flight
following and where high pilot workload leads to a less effective
traffic scan than most people would care to admit in public.

Any and all thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

[JerryK]

I have Mode S (Garmin 330 and GNS 430). It is pretty nice. It shows
traffic where it currently is and gives a projected position vector line so
you can guess where they are going to be. It is pretty frightening to "see"
all of the aircraft you normally would have missed. The unit also has audio
alerts and flashes the display when there is a conflict. Unlike TCAS units
it does not issue conflict resolution commands, "climb", "descend", etc.

The traffic is displayed on the GNS430. When you add traffic, the GNS 430
gets one additional screen, a dedicated traffic display. It has ranges from
12 to 2 miles. The traffic shows on this screen and on the regular moving
map.

jerry

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> My club has started thinking about putting Mode-S transponders in our
> aircraft (3 Archers, 2 Arrows, 2 Bonanzas), to take advantage of traffic
> advisory information.
>
> Does anybody here have Mode-S in their plane now? Do you make use of
> the traffic info? How well does it work? How easy is it to use? What
> do you display the info on?
>
> Is the technology mature enough to invest in today, or do we risk being
> on the bleeding edge? One possible route we're thinking of is not
> investing wholesale in Mode-S, but waiting for our existing xponders to
> die and specify Mode-S in the replacement units.
>
> We're slowly moving towards MFDs in all our planes. Right now, out of 7
> planes, we've got one MX-20, one CNX-80, and we're probaby looking at
> two more CNX-80's before the summer. How does the traffic info interact
> with the other displays? Does it just over-lay the moving map? Do you
> need to dedicate a display to traffic?
>
> We've got two schools of thought as to where traffic info would do the
> most good, i.e. on a limited budget, which planes do we start equipping
> with it first. One school says put it int the Bonanza because it's the
> fastest mover. Higher airspeed, less time to see and react to traffic.
>
> On the other hand, the Bonanzas are the most likely to be doing
> high-altitude straight line legs from one place to another, so pilot
> workload is low most of the time, and ATC is watching (either IFR or VFR
> flight following). The Archers are more likely to be low down where
> there's lots of traffic, doing training maneuvers without flight
> following and where high pilot workload leads to a less effective
> traffic scan than most people would care to admit in public.
>
> Any and all thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

[Jack McAdams]

I have had the Garmin 330 mode S transponder in my Sundowner for a
year now. I imagine it sure qualifies as a 'Spamcan'!

The 330 is super coupled to the Garmin 430. How, or if, it would play
with other MFDs I don't know.

I'm in the NY Metro area so there is a lot of traffic around here. The
330 has performed flawlessly for me. It is great to know traffic is in
the area before ATC calls it out - if they do. The ability to see the
direction, altitude and altitude trend of the traffic is first class.
The 430 overlays the traffic and also brings up a dedicated alert page
if it detects a possible conflict.

The only drawback I see is that the ground transmitters are not always
in the 'right' place for where I need them. I usually lose the signal
around 2000 feet in the area of KABE - just where I want it most. The
FAA says more transmitter sites are coming, but who knows when.

Your original post asked about the value of Mode S, not the traffic
information system. Mode S alone does virtually nothing for the pilot;
it just records additional info on the ATC tapes. My understanding is
that the controllers don't know you have Mode S and get no additional
data on their scopes.

Jack
Sundowner - N6363U

Roy Smith > wrote in message >...
> My club has started thinking about putting Mode-S transponders in our
> aircraft (3 Archers, 2 Arrows, 2 Bonanzas), to take advantage of traffic
> advisory information.
>
> Does anybody here have Mode-S in their plane now? Do you make use of
> the traffic info? How well does it work? How easy is it to use? What
> do you display the info on?
>
> Is the technology mature enough to invest in today, or do we risk being
> on the bleeding edge? One possible route we're thinking of is not
> investing wholesale in Mode-S, but waiting for our existing xponders to
> die and specify Mode-S in the replacement units.
>
> We're slowly moving towards MFDs in all our planes. Right now, out of 7
> planes, we've got one MX-20, one CNX-80, and we're probaby looking at
> two more CNX-80's before the summer. How does the traffic info interact
> with the other displays? Does it just over-lay the moving map? Do you
> need to dedicate a display to traffic?
>
> We've got two schools of thought as to where traffic info would do the
> most good, i.e. on a limited budget, which planes do we start equipping
> with it first. One school says put it int the Bonanza because it's the
> fastest mover. Higher airspeed, less time to see and react to traffic.
>
> On the other hand, the Bonanzas are the most likely to be doing
> high-altitude straight line legs from one place to another, so pilot
> workload is low most of the time, and ATC is watching (either IFR or VFR
> flight following). The Archers are more likely to be low down where
> there's lots of traffic, doing training maneuvers without flight
> following and where high pilot workload leads to a less effective
> traffic scan than most people would care to admit in public.
>
> Any and all thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

[O. Sami Saydjari]

Roy,

I too just recently installed a GTX-330 and have it coupled to my GNS
430. It works well, but I think it works only near Class B airports at
this time. I recently flew my Turbo Arrow home (Central Wisconsin) from
Reno, Nevada. That was a long journey. We only got TIS coverage for
about 5% of the trip (near Denver, I think). The coverage was
disappointing. I also often fly by Chicago Ohare to go east, and that
works quite well. I am told that within 12 months, coverage will start
extending to the areas around class C airports and even further out soon
after that. I look forward to the more extended coverage. I hear that
coverage on the East Coast is quite good. I can give you a better
report when I fly to Washington D.C. in the next few weeks.

-Sami (N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III, Central Wisconsin)

Roy Smith wrote:

> My club has started thinking about putting Mode-S transponders in our
> aircraft (3 Archers, 2 Arrows, 2 Bonanzas), to take advantage of traffic
> advisory information.
>
> Does anybody here have Mode-S in their plane now? Do you make use of
> the traffic info? How well does it work? How easy is it to use? What
> do you display the info on?
>
> Is the technology mature enough to invest in today, or do we risk being
> on the bleeding edge? One possible route we're thinking of is not
> investing wholesale in Mode-S, but waiting for our existing xponders to
> die and specify Mode-S in the replacement units.
>
> We're slowly moving towards MFDs in all our planes. Right now, out of 7
> planes, we've got one MX-20, one CNX-80, and we're probaby looking at
> two more CNX-80's before the summer. How does the traffic info interact
> with the other displays? Does it just over-lay the moving map? Do you
> need to dedicate a display to traffic?
>
> We've got two schools of thought as to where traffic info would do the
> most good, i.e. on a limited budget, which planes do we start equipping
> with it first. One school says put it int the Bonanza because it's the
> fastest mover. Higher airspeed, less time to see and react to traffic.
>
> On the other hand, the Bonanzas are the most likely to be doing
> high-altitude straight line legs from one place to another, so pilot
> workload is low most of the time, and ATC is watching (either IFR or VFR
> flight following). The Archers are more likely to be low down where
> there's lots of traffic, doing training maneuvers without flight
> following and where high pilot workload leads to a less effective
> traffic scan than most people would care to admit in public.
>
> Any and all thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

[Viperdoc]

I have a Garmin 330 hooked to a 530 in a Baron, which counts as spam can,
and also a 330 connected to a 430 in an Extra, which is composite and is not
a spam can.

Both work exceptionally well, and it's amazing how much traffic is out there
that you never see, even with a good scan. There was a recent excellent
review in either IFR or Aviation Consumer on the subject.

I consider it one of my best avionics investments.

[Dan Thompson]

I've been thinking about getting a 330 for my 530. Does the traffic appear
as an overlay on the Nav2 page, or do you have to go to a separate screen
for traffic?

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> I have a Garmin 330 hooked to a 530 in a Baron, which counts as spam can,
> and also a 330 connected to a 430 in an Extra, which is composite and is
not
> a spam can.
>
> Both work exceptionally well, and it's amazing how much traffic is out
there
> that you never see, even with a good scan. There was a recent excellent
> review in either IFR or Aviation Consumer on the subject.
>
> I consider it one of my best avionics investments.
>
>

[JerryK]

The traffic is available on both on a separate page and on the moving map
page.

"Dan Thompson" > wrote in message
om...
> I've been thinking about getting a 330 for my 530. Does the traffic
appear
> as an overlay on the Nav2 page, or do you have to go to a separate screen
> for traffic?
>
> "Viperdoc" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a Garmin 330 hooked to a 530 in a Baron, which counts as spam
can,
> > and also a 330 connected to a 430 in an Extra, which is composite and is
> not
> > a spam can.
> >
> > Both work exceptionally well, and it's amazing how much traffic is out
> there
> > that you never see, even with a good scan. There was a recent excellent
> > review in either IFR or Aviation Consumer on the subject.
> >
> > I consider it one of my best avionics investments.
> >
> >
>
>

[Viperdoc]

Traffic comes up on the main nav page as well as on the map page. However,
since the usual map range set for flying is a lot more than 12 miles, it is
difficult to tell the exact location of traffic without turning to the
separate traffic page.

If there is an impending traffic conflict, a separate screen will pop up,
along with an aural alert. The system works great, and as long as you are in
a mode S coverage area (which ultimately will be pretty much anywhere there
is a class B or C airspace nearby) you will get traffic information.

[Mike Schumann]

I would prioritize by putting the system in the planes that spend the most
time near airports that have TIS coverage. Usually that would be low end
trainers, rather than cross country type of aircraft.

Mike Schumann

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> My club has started thinking about putting Mode-S transponders in our
> aircraft (3 Archers, 2 Arrows, 2 Bonanzas), to take advantage of traffic
> advisory information.
>
> Does anybody here have Mode-S in their plane now? Do you make use of
> the traffic info? How well does it work? How easy is it to use? What
> do you display the info on?
>
> Is the technology mature enough to invest in today, or do we risk being
> on the bleeding edge? One possible route we're thinking of is not
> investing wholesale in Mode-S, but waiting for our existing xponders to
> die and specify Mode-S in the replacement units.
>
> We're slowly moving towards MFDs in all our planes. Right now, out of 7
> planes, we've got one MX-20, one CNX-80, and we're probaby looking at
> two more CNX-80's before the summer. How does the traffic info interact
> with the other displays? Does it just over-lay the moving map? Do you
> need to dedicate a display to traffic?
>
> We've got two schools of thought as to where traffic info would do the
> most good, i.e. on a limited budget, which planes do we start equipping
> with it first. One school says put it int the Bonanza because it's the
> fastest mover. Higher airspeed, less time to see and react to traffic.
>
> On the other hand, the Bonanzas are the most likely to be doing
> high-altitude straight line legs from one place to another, so pilot
> workload is low most of the time, and ATC is watching (either IFR or VFR
> flight following). The Archers are more likely to be low down where
> there's lots of traffic, doing training maneuvers without flight
> following and where high pilot workload leads to a less effective
> traffic scan than most people would care to admit in public.
>
> Any and all thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Roy Smith > wrote:
> My club has started thinking about putting Mode-S transponders in our
> aircraft (3 Archers, 2 Arrows, 2 Bonanzas), to take advantage of traffic
> advisory information.
>
> Does anybody here have Mode-S in their plane now? Do you make use of
> the traffic info? How well does it work? How easy is it to use? What
> do you display the info on?
>
> Is the technology mature enough to invest in today, or do we risk being
> on the bleeding edge? One possible route we're thinking of is not
> investing wholesale in Mode-S, but waiting for our existing xponders to
> die and specify Mode-S in the replacement units.


I'm cheap, so I may not be the opinion that you're looking for, but if I
had perfectly good transponders I probably wouldn't ditch them. I have
a King KT-78 that is probably going to need replaced in the next few
years, although I THOUGHT it was going to need replaced last summer, so
I considered my options. I don't have any way to display traffic info
(no MFD, no GNS430, etc.) and I don't plan to invest in any of that any
time soon, so I decided that the significant extra expense of the Mode-S
was't worth it at this time. I figured that if I do go the MFD route,
I'd just swap out the transponder later. Fortunately, I don't need a
new transponder just yet, and when I do need one I will probably
re-evaluate based on what else is in my panel at the time. If I had a
MFD I would probably get the Mode-S transponder. My single greatest
fear is traffic that I don't see, which is likely a greater factor in
areas where TIS is available.


JKG