Replacing Battered POH

[Marco Leon]

How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
"official" copy? I've been contemplating slowly re-doing the POH for my
Warrior but nixed the idea not knowing the regs.

A Google search showed up negative on this query.

Marco





----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "Marco Leon"
<mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote:

> How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
> "official" copy? I've been contemplating slowly re-doing the POH for my
> Warrior but nixed the idea not knowing the regs.

call Piper and purchase a new one for your aircraft. Give
them the serial number and they can sell you an official
POH for your warrior.

--
Bob Noel

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:59:41 GMT, Bob Noel
> wrote:

>In article >, "Marco Leon"
><mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
>> "official" copy? I've been contemplating slowly re-doing the POH for my
>> Warrior but nixed the idea not knowing the regs.
>
>call Piper and purchase a new one for your aircraft. Give
>them the serial number and they can sell you an official
>POH for your warrior.

Yup. When you get it, make sure that you transfer all the original
equipment list entries (usually crappy little stamped X's) into the
new one. For some reason, they tend to come through "blank". The
original w & b numbers will be in there, make sure to transfer any
changes into the new one also.

Had planes come through for an annual after POH replacement where none
of the above had been done, and the "original" pitched.

Didn't care for it much.

TC

[James M. Knox]

Bob Noel > wrote in
:

>> How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
>> "official" copy?
>
> call Piper and purchase a new one for your aircraft. Give
> them the serial number and they can sell you an official
> POH for your warrior.

You can indeed buy a new one, but it will be expensive (used to be
around $400). You can buy a new PIM for about 10% of that price. The
PIM can not replace the POH, but guess what - 99% of the pages are the
same.

The PIM is nothing but a POH that doesn't have the aircraft's serial
number on it, and hence isn't FAA approved for the aircraft.

My suggestion: Purchase a new PIM. [From Essco, or maybe even from
your local FBO/Flight_school.] Replace all the pages in your POH with
the same pages from the PIM, where they are identical. This should
leave you with only a few pages - the cover pages, the change page, and
the added pages (W&B changes). Any of those that are falling apart,
either photocopy or laminate. Keep all the original pages you removed
in a drawer at home, just in case you ever get some anal examiner. You
*may* find that you have as little as two pages left from the old POH.

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

[Marco Leon]

My cover page with the serial number is actually the worst page and I did
make a photocopy as you said keeping the original at home. I called Piper
and asked for a replacement POH. They quoted me $33 for part number 761-619.
Since it had a part number, I thought it was an official replacement but
your $400 price quote makes me think twice. After all, that price DOES sound
in-line with every other part (e.g. $6,000 wheel pants!)

Time for another phone call...

Marco

"James M. Knox" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Noel > wrote in
> :
>
> >> How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
> >> "official" copy?
> >
> > call Piper and purchase a new one for your aircraft. Give
> > them the serial number and they can sell you an official
> > POH for your warrior.
>
> You can indeed buy a new one, but it will be expensive (used to be
> around $400). You can buy a new PIM for about 10% of that price. The
> PIM can not replace the POH, but guess what - 99% of the pages are the
> same.
>
> The PIM is nothing but a POH that doesn't have the aircraft's serial
> number on it, and hence isn't FAA approved for the aircraft.
>
> My suggestion: Purchase a new PIM. [From Essco, or maybe even from
> your local FBO/Flight_school.] Replace all the pages in your POH with
> the same pages from the PIM, where they are identical. This should
> leave you with only a few pages - the cover pages, the change page, and
> the added pages (W&B changes). Any of those that are falling apart,
> either photocopy or laminate. Keep all the original pages you removed
> in a drawer at home, just in case you ever get some anal examiner. You
> *may* find that you have as little as two pages left from the old POH.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> James M. Knox
> TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
> 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
> Austin, Tx 78721
> -----------------------------------------------



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

[real_name]

In article >,
"Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote:

> My cover page with the serial number is actually the worst page and I did
> make a photocopy as you said keeping the original at home. I called Piper
> and asked for a replacement POH. They quoted me $33 for part number 761-619.
> Since it had a part number, I thought it was an official replacement but
> your $400 price quote makes me think twice. After all, that price DOES sound
> in-line with every other part (e.g. $6,000 wheel pants!)
>
> Time for another phone call...

my replacement POH for me cherokee didn't cost $400. The $33 you were
quoted sounds about right (I got it a little more than a year ago).

[Kyler Laird]

"James M. Knox" > writes:

>My suggestion: Purchase a new PIM. [From Essco, or maybe even from
>your local FBO/Flight_school.] Replace all the pages in your POH with
>the same pages from the PIM, where they are identical. This should
>leave you with only a few pages - the cover pages, the change page, and
>the added pages (W&B changes). Any of those that are falling apart,
>either photocopy or laminate. Keep all the original pages you removed
>in a drawer at home, just in case you ever get some anal examiner.

What does that mean? Photocopies are *not* as good as the originals?
What if you get nailed on a ramp check? If the copies aren't sufficient,
having the originals at home isn't going to help, is it?

(I'd like to replace the decomposing pages of my POH with copies.)

--kyler

[Mike Z.]

Doesn't it make a difference what year the plane is?

I forget what year they started the serialized POH's

Specifically does my '76 Skyhawk need the expensive one or is the cheap one OK.

Mike Z



"Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in message ...
> How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
> "official" copy? I've been contemplating slowly re-doing the POH for my
> Warrior but nixed the idea not knowing the regs.
>
> A Google search showed up negative on this query.
>
> Marco
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[James M. Knox]

"Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in
:

> My cover page with the serial number is actually the worst page and I
> did make a photocopy as you said keeping the original at home. I
> called Piper and asked for a replacement POH. They quoted me $33 for
> part number 761-619. Since it had a part number, I thought it was an
> official replacement but your $400 price quote makes me think twice.

Yes, make another call and make sure that you are getting a POH -- i.e.
it will have YOUR serial number in it. Maybe they have gotten
reasonable on their prices, but somehow I doubt it. The $33 does seem
quite reasonable for the non-seralized version of the POH, but that is
not a legal replacement.

One possible issue another poster raised? Do you actually HAVE a POH?
What year is your plane? It may be that all they have is a PIM and not
a POH. I don't recall exactly what year they changed over, mid-70's or
a little earlier.

Lastly, the question asked about a photocopy. No, I don't know of any
FAA ruling about photocopies of the POH pages - meaning each FSDO makes
it up as they go along. I suspect most ramp check guys won't care.
True, having the original at home is of no legal bearing, but it does
allow you to (should it EVER come up) put it back in the plane. Just
don't throw it away. [Laminate the durn thing, if you want to.]



-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

[Marco Leon]

Not sure how Cessnas work but my 1978 Warrior II has the serial number in
the POH. I'm waiting for a callback from Piper but they guy thinks the
"official" serial-numbered POH is about $75 and definitely under $100. I'll
post again with the price when I get it.

Marco



"Mike Z." > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Doesn't it make a difference what year the plane is?
>
> I forget what year they started the serialized POH's
>
> Specifically does my '76 Skyhawk need the expensive one or is the cheap
one OK.
>
> Mike Z
>
>
>
> "Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in message
...
> > How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
> > "official" copy? I've been contemplating slowly re-doing the POH for my
> > Warrior but nixed the idea not knowing the regs.
> >
> > A Google search showed up negative on this query.
> >
> > Marco
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> > ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption =---
>
>



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

[Tom Nery]

My 66 180C POH was seeing better days, but was still in readable condition.
I scanned it into my computer and using a software utility called clickbook
printed it in book format (2 pages per letter size page and both sides) and
put it into a small loose leaf binder. I also copied the PIH, all the 337s,
W&B and other official paperwork. Now I have 2 (actually 3 if you count the
original which is in my firebox with my logs) copies and the are totally
legible and maintainable.

You might try doing the same thing

Tom

"Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in message
...
> How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
> "official" copy? I've been contemplating slowly re-doing the POH for my
> Warrior but nixed the idea not knowing the regs.
>
> A Google search showed up negative on this query.
>
> Marco
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "James M. Knox"
> wrote:

>
> Yes, make another call and make sure that you are getting a POH -- i.e.
> it will have YOUR serial number in it. Maybe they have gotten
> reasonable on their prices, but somehow I doubt it. The $33 does seem
> quite reasonable for the non-seralized version of the POH, but that is
> not a legal replacement.

I finally got over to my airplane. The replacement POH I bought
from Piper has my serial number on it.

--
Bob Noel

[Marco Leon]

I was thinking about that and I actually did that for the page in worst
condition (the cover page with the serial number). I'm not sure as to its
legality since it is a reproduction.



"Tom Nery" > wrote in message
news:34bXb.309294$na.462381@attbi_s04...
> My 66 180C POH was seeing better days, but was still in readable
condition.
> I scanned it into my computer and using a software utility called
clickbook
> printed it in book format (2 pages per letter size page and both sides)
and
> put it into a small loose leaf binder. I also copied the PIH, all the
337s,
> W&B and other official paperwork. Now I have 2 (actually 3 if you count
the
> original which is in my firebox with my logs) copies and the are totally
> legible and maintainable.
>
> You might try doing the same thing
>
> Tom
>
> "Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in message
> ...
> > How does one go about replacing a POH in poor condition with another
> > "official" copy? I've been contemplating slowly re-doing the POH for my
> > Warrior but nixed the idea not knowing the regs.
> >
> > A Google search showed up negative on this query.
> >
> > Marco
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
> Newsgroups
> > ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption
> =---
>
>



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

[Marco Leon]

Yes, I do have a POH and not a PIM. I fly a 1978 Piper Warrior II. I called
Piper in Vero Beach Florida and the rep told me a replacement POH with the
serial number is under $100. He still has to get back to me though.

Marco


"James M. Knox" > wrote in message
...
> "Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in
> :
>
> > My cover page with the serial number is actually the worst page and I
> > did make a photocopy as you said keeping the original at home. I
> > called Piper and asked for a replacement POH. They quoted me $33 for
> > part number 761-619. Since it had a part number, I thought it was an
> > official replacement but your $400 price quote makes me think twice.
>
> Yes, make another call and make sure that you are getting a POH -- i.e.
> it will have YOUR serial number in it. Maybe they have gotten
> reasonable on their prices, but somehow I doubt it. The $33 does seem
> quite reasonable for the non-seralized version of the POH, but that is
> not a legal replacement.
>
> One possible issue another poster raised? Do you actually HAVE a POH?
> What year is your plane? It may be that all they have is a PIM and not
> a POH. I don't recall exactly what year they changed over, mid-70's or
> a little earlier.
>
> Lastly, the question asked about a photocopy. No, I don't know of any
> FAA ruling about photocopies of the POH pages - meaning each FSDO makes
> it up as they go along. I suspect most ramp check guys won't care.
> True, having the original at home is of no legal bearing, but it does
> allow you to (should it EVER come up) put it back in the plane. Just
> don't throw it away. [Laminate the durn thing, if you want to.]
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> James M. Knox
> TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
> 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
> Austin, Tx 78721
> -----------------------------------------------



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

[Dennis O'Connor]

For a hundred bucks, make up a cheat sheet(s) with the pertinent info for
operation, <v speeds, W/B, etc.> to keep in the side pocket...

Put the tattered remains of the POH in a zip lock baggie and stuff it in
with the other documents... The rules say there must be a POH, period...
There is not one regulation regarding condition... Spend the other $99 on
something you need...
denny

"Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in message
...
> Yes, I do have a POH and not a PIM. I fly a 1978 Piper Warrior II. I
called
> Piper in Vero Beach Florida and the rep told me a replacement POH with the
> serial number is under $100. He still has to get back to me though.
>
> Marco
>
>
> "James M. Knox" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Marco Leon" <mleon(at)optonline.net> wrote in
> > :
> >
> > > My cover page with the serial number is actually the worst page and I
> > > did make a photocopy as you said keeping the original at home. I
> > > called Piper and asked for a replacement POH. They quoted me $33 for
> > > part number 761-619. Since it had a part number, I thought it was an
> > > official replacement but your $400 price quote makes me think twice.
> >
> > Yes, make another call and make sure that you are getting a POH -- i.e.
> > it will have YOUR serial number in it. Maybe they have gotten
> > reasonable on their prices, but somehow I doubt it. The $33 does seem
> > quite reasonable for the non-seralized version of the POH, but that is
> > not a legal replacement.
> >
> > One possible issue another poster raised? Do you actually HAVE a POH?
> > What year is your plane? It may be that all they have is a PIM and not
> > a POH. I don't recall exactly what year they changed over, mid-70's or
> > a little earlier.
> >
> > Lastly, the question asked about a photocopy. No, I don't know of any
> > FAA ruling about photocopies of the POH pages - meaning each FSDO makes
> > it up as they go along. I suspect most ramp check guys won't care.
> > True, having the original at home is of no legal bearing, but it does
> > allow you to (should it EVER come up) put it back in the plane. Just
> > don't throw it away. [Laminate the durn thing, if you want to.]
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > James M. Knox
> > TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
> > 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
> > Austin, Tx 78721
> > -----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com