GTX-330 Question [Archive]

smackey

February 27th 04, 05:53 AM

I'm thinking of getting a GNS 430 and the GTX 330 put in my plane. I
have a couple of questions that I would really like some answers to:

1. My aero radio people tell me that they think the GTX 330 display
is always up on the map. I.e., I can't declutter or eliminate it if I
want to, say while flying an instrument approach and not really
needing/wanting the mode-s traffic info on the screen. True?

2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
the traffic warning is nonexistent!! Wouldn't I do just as well with
a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?

Thomas Borchert

February 27th 04, 12:00 PM

Smackey,

not sure about your 1. but

> 2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
> traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
> only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
> in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
> the traffic warning is nonexistent!! Wouldn't I do just as well with
> a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?
>

You will see all traffic ATC sees, including Mode C (and A, and possibly
primary). The mode S in YOUR aircraft is used to uplink the ATCtraffic
data from the radar ground station to your transponder. If the radar
station is not TIS-equipped, this uplink will not happen. So, the lack
of TIS in the hinterlands is due to a lack of radar ground station
equipment, not the equipment of other aircraft.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

James M. Knox

February 27th 04, 02:43 PM

(smackey) wrote in news:29ecea1.0402262153.3d20ce81
@posting.google.com:

> 2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
> traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
> only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
> in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
> the traffic warning is nonexistent!!

It's not really a "Mode-S area" thing. It doesn't matter whether the
other aircraft has Mode-S or not, or really even if ATC has the
facilities for Mode-S.

What matters is that you must be in an *operational* area with TIS.
There is a map (Garmin web site?) that shows where these "might" be
(there may be some not shown on the map, and a lot on the map aren't
always operational).

TIS areas are expected to eventually be found around MAJOR (read class C
and B) airports. On the east coast, as would be expected, this can
provide fairly decent coverage. But enroute between airport don't
expect any traffic advisories from TIS.

> Wouldn't I do just as well with
> a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?

Well, no and yes. Within TIS coverage, it's a LOT better than any cheap
Monroy or TCAD type system. But outside of TIS coverage its value goes
to zero, while the TCAD provides at least some small help. Of course,
the true second-best solution is a Skywatch or other TCAS-like system -
but you are talking upwards of $15K to $20K. [The best solution is
targetting radar and a good RIO in the back seat.]

-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------

Rob Thomas

February 27th 04, 03:42 PM

Just a clarification:

You will see all the transponder information that ATC has. You will NOT see
reflections from their radar. That's supposed to be a limitation in the
FAA's software that they are supposedly going to fix in the future. This is
from one of the billion aviation magazines that I got this month. Can't
remember which one.

I also suspect that the software is written in such a manner that you won't
be seeing military aircraft on your screen either! :)

r.

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Smackey,
>
>
> not sure about your 1. but
>
> > 2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
> > traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
> > only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
> > in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
> > the traffic warning is nonexistent!! Wouldn't I do just as well with
> > a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?
> >
>
> You will see all traffic ATC sees, including Mode C (and A, and possibly
> primary). The mode S in YOUR aircraft is used to uplink the ATCtraffic
> data from the radar ground station to your transponder. If the radar
> station is not TIS-equipped, this uplink will not happen. So, the lack
> of TIS in the hinterlands is due to a lack of radar ground station
> equipment, not the equipment of other aircraft.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>

Rob Thomas

February 27th 04, 03:59 PM

"smackey" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm thinking of getting a GNS 430 and the GTX 330 put in my plane. I
> have a couple of questions that I would really like some answers to:
>
> 1. My aero radio people tell me that they think the GTX 330 display
> is always up on the map. I.e., I can't declutter or eliminate it if I
> want to, say while flying an instrument approach and not really
> needing/wanting the mode-s traffic info on the screen. True?

Yes, you will not see the traffic unless there is Mode S coverage. The
radars need to be equipped to send you the data up to your aircraft, and the
FAA has done that completely yet.

There's a link on this page that has the Mode S coverage currently in
operation.

http://www.garmin.com/products/gtx330

Will there be complete coverage over the entire nation in the future?
Dunno. But, it seems that the highest traffic areas are currently
represented, and if you do fly in these areas, I imagine it would be
invaluable information to have. The other side of the argument is that
flying out in the boonies, you should find yourself with significantly less
traffic than in the currently covered Mode S areas. Of course, then you're
just using a really, really, really expensive Mode C transponder. :)

In my opinion, you can really do a lot of things to manage risk in an
aircraft. The one that is really, really hard to do is avoid a collision
when you're in controlled airspace and the controller makes a mistake. You
do everything you're told, but you're still dead. :( That seems to happen
once a year in So. Cal., and quite frankly, it's the thing that scares me
the most about flying (even though I know it's a very low risk). It just
happened a few months back with two helicopters in Torrance and a year or so
down in Carlsbad. :( And the really sad one in Colorado (I think) where
both aircraft were VFR and getting flight following and they still managed
to find each other. I'm hoping that Mode S will help reduce these types of
accidents and make me a safer pilot.

r.

> 2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
> traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
> only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
> in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
> the traffic warning is nonexistent!! Wouldn't I do just as well with
> a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?

Victor J. Osborne, Jr.

February 27th 04, 07:30 PM

Don't know where your located but Carolina Avionics in Salisbury, NC can put
a GNS530 for the price of a 430. There at RUQ. I'm looking at the 330 as
an add later.

No, I don't work for him. Just passing along a pirep.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

take off my shoes to reply

Javier Henderson

February 28th 04, 02:39 AM

I've a GNS430 and GTX330.

> 1. My aero radio people tell me that they think the GTX 330 display
> is always up on the map. I.e., I can't declutter or eliminate it if I
> want to, say while flying an instrument approach and not really
> needing/wanting the mode-s traffic info on the screen. True?

You can disable the traffic display any time you want.

> 2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
> traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
> only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
> in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
> the traffic warning is nonexistent!! Wouldn't I do just as well with
> a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?

You need to be in an area with TIS coverage. In California, for
example, the Bay Area and the area from Santa Barbara on south and
east towards Palm Springs has TIS, and it works great.

-jav

Mark Manes

February 28th 04, 04:38 AM

I just had a GPS400 and GTX330 installed.
I'm based in Ft Smith, Ark (Garmin's map shows FSM in Mode S area, although
we
are not). Dallas Tulsa OKC and Little Rock are all areas with Mode S
coverage and
the TIS works in those areas.

"smackey" > wrote in message
m...
> I'm thinking of getting a GNS 430 and the GTX 330 put in my plane. I
> have a couple of questions that I would really like some answers to:
>
> 1. My aero radio people tell me that they think the GTX 330 display
> is always up on the map. I.e., I can't declutter or eliminate it if I
> want to, say while flying an instrument approach and not really
> needing/wanting the mode-s traffic info on the screen. True?
>

You can configure the Traffic to display on the main Nav Map page (2nd nav
page) or not. I have disabled this and only display traffic on the 3rd Nav
Page (traffic page) because it clutters up the map page. You can also
display traffic on a thumbnail (takes 2 data fields). The GTX330 will talk
to you if an aircraft is going to be with + or - 500ft and 0.5nm within 34
seconds. This is called a Traffic Advisory and will say "TRAFFIC" over the
audio system. When you leave a Mode S area the voice announces "Traffic not
available" also. As far as I know you can't turn anything off (map or
voice), only configure how it's displayed.

> 2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
> traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
> only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
> in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
> the traffic warning is nonexistent!! Wouldn't I do just as well with
> a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?

No traffic in NonMode S area. But the GTX330 will also attach your aircraft
type and tail number to your Mode S reply if you program it to do so. If
you're going into a Mode S area VFR they will know your N# and type before
you say anything.

Here is a link to the available manuals for downloading for the GTX330

http://www.garmin.com/products/manual.jsp?product=010-00230-00

And for the GNS430

http://www.garmin.com/products/manual.jsp?product=010-00139-11

It has screen shots of the the different map pages etc.

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Mark Manes

February 28th 04, 04:50 AM

Just figured out how to stop Traffic display by putting it in the standby
mode...
I've just never done it.

"> "smackey" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I'm thinking of getting a GNS 430 and the GTX 330 put in my plane. I
> > have a couple of questions that I would really like some answers to:
> >
> > 1. My aero radio people tell me that they think the GTX 330 display
> > is always up on the map. I.e., I can't declutter or eliminate it if I
> > want to, say while flying an instrument approach and not really
> > needing/wanting the mode-s traffic info on the screen. True?
> >
>
> You can configure the Traffic to display on the main Nav Map page (2nd
nav
> page) or not. I have disabled this and only display traffic on the 3rd
Nav
> Page (traffic page) because it clutters up the map page. You can also
> display traffic on a thumbnail (takes 2 data fields). The GTX330 will
talk
> to you if an aircraft is going to be with + or - 500ft and 0.5nm within 34
> seconds. This is called a Traffic Advisory and will say "TRAFFIC" over the
> audio system. When you leave a Mode S area the voice announces "Traffic
not
> available" also. As far as I know you can't turn anything off (map or
> voice), only configure how it's displayed.

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PaulaJay1

February 28th 04, 04:59 PM

In article >, "Rob Thomas"
> writes:

>Yes, you will not see the traffic unless there is Mode S coverage. The
>radars need to be equipped to send you the data up to your aircraft, and the
>FAA has done that completely yet.
>

Garmin rep in a meeting last week suggested that the range is now about 60 mile
radius from equiped radars and FAA is considering extending that to 90 miles.
Problem has to do with the added work load of the radar computers handling the
additional traffic.

Chuck

smackey

February 28th 04, 05:43 PM

"Victor J. Osborne, Jr." > wrote in message >...
> Don't know where your located but Carolina Avionics in Salisbury, NC can put
> a GNS530 for the price of a 430. There at RUQ. I'm looking at the 330 as
> an add later.
>
> No, I don't work for him. Just passing along a pirep.
>
> --
>
> Thx, {|;-)
>
> Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

Victor,
Thanks for this tip; I'm going to check it out. How can they do it,
though? Is this one of those too good to be true things? Is there
room in the margin between their cost and the final customer price to
make it cost feasible for them? Please understand, I don't question
your veracity; in fact, I'm contacting them ASAP. I'm in Montana, but
actually have reason to fly back to NC this summer anyway, and could
manage it!

Dave

February 29th 04, 01:04 PM

(smackey) wrote in message >...
> 1. My aero radio people tell me that they think the GTX 330 display
> is always up on the map. I.e., I can't declutter or eliminate it if I
> want to, say while flying an instrument approach and not really
> needing/wanting the mode-s traffic info on the screen. True?
>
They're wrong. You can configure the traffic pages a number of ways.
Or you can switch the mode-S from OPER to STBY to turn it all off.

> 2. I assume that the traffic warning in the mode-s will not alert to
> traffic if I'm not in a mode-s area, and/or there are aircraft only
> only squaking mode-c or other. In other words, if I'm fling along out
> in the hinterlands (a frequent occurance) where there is no mode-s,
> the traffic warning is nonexistent!! Wouldn't I do just as well with
> a portable Monroy, or similar, traffic alerter?

As posted here, that's a product of the FAA's TIS services. More
range would be nicer, but it's most handy in denser traffic areas.

Victor J. Osborne, Jr.

March 1st 04, 03:34 AM

I bought my first A36 Bonanza from "George" the Bonanza Man in Salisbury. A
real expert w/ Beech products. He recommended I give Carolina Av. a shot,
as they were on the field. The results were good.

Long Story Short, I crashed that plane Feb 2003. Next plane had the same
quotes from two different shops, same results. A 530 for same price as the
other shop quoted for a 430. Carolina Av. said they would rather install
the 530 as it has a little more function, more viewing real-estate and
better up sell due to the better product. I guess they don't have the
overhead of some other shops. I have no complaints on either install or the
support.

BTW I called 3 other owners as references about the GTX330 and these folks
spoke highly of their products and relationship w/ Carolina.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

take off my shoes to reply

JerryK

March 1st 04, 09:32 PM

John Galban

March 3rd 04, 12:24 AM

"JerryK" > wrote in message >...
<snip>
> The Monroy and other units will work in non-TIS areas with
> aircraft with an operating transponder.

That's mostly true. It will work if someone is interrogating the
other plane's transponders. This usually means an area that has radar
coverage, or lots of TCAS equipped traffic.

I still fly in many areas out here in the west where I don't see the
reply light flash on my transponder for long periods of time.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

Tom Sixkiller

March 3rd 04, 01:21 AM

"John Galban" > wrote in message
om...
> "JerryK" > wrote in message
>...
> <snip>
> > The Monroy and other units will work in non-TIS areas with
> > aircraft with an operating transponder.
>
> That's mostly true. It will work if someone is interrogating the
> other plane's transponders. This usually means an area that has radar
> coverage, or lots of TCAS equipped traffic.
>
> I still fly in many areas out here in the west where I don't see the
> reply light flash on my transponder for long periods of time.
>

I regularly fly from Denver to Rapid City and it's not unusual to have a
blank transponder light for 80% of the trip.

> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)