Bad Airplane Buying Experience Last Night

[MRQB]

Don't deal with Jolly Dawson from Aurora, OR. He is rude &
violent and is trying to sell a Piper Tri-Pacer with Photo copied logs
things scratched out, pages missing, & data plates that look modified.

A police report for assault was filed against Jolly Dawson he got extremely
upset & violent when I told him I did not want to buy the airplane and that
maybe he should be more polite to prospective buyers. Threats by made from
Jolly Dawson were recorded by a 911 operator in Marion County, Oregon

Funniest thing I have herd yet while looking at an airplane's

Q: why are all the logs photo copies
A: The original logs were destroyed by water

Q: Then how did you make photo copies if the original logs were destroyed
with water
A: No Answer, Just rude mumbling's how its not important to have the
original logs

[Brad Z]

I'm confused...you filed an assault report for photocopied logs? Why not
just walk?


"MRQB" > wrote in message
...
> Don't deal with Jolly Dawson from Aurora, OR. He is rude &
> violent and is trying to sell a Piper Tri-Pacer with Photo copied logs
> things scratched out, pages missing, & data plates that look modified.
>
> A police report for assault was filed against Jolly Dawson he got
extremely
> upset & violent when I told him I did not want to buy the airplane and
that
> maybe he should be more polite to prospective buyers. Threats by made from
> Jolly Dawson were recorded by a 911 operator in Marion County, Oregon
>
> Funniest thing I have herd yet while looking at an airplane's
>
> Q: why are all the logs photo copies
> A: The original logs were destroyed by water
>
> Q: Then how did you make photo copies if the original logs were destroyed
> with water
> A: No Answer, Just rude mumbling's how its not important to have the
> original logs
>
>
>
>

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:02:42 -0800, MRQB wrote:

> Q: Then how did you make photo copies if the original logs were destroyed
> with water

It could also be how I do it. I scan my logs, so if I add oil I'll scan
the log and add it to the electronic pdf version I keep. If my logs are
so unlucky as to be lost, I have them all, yellow tags, logs, stc's, W&B,
etc all in my pdf file.

Just because mine could be a copy does not mean I copied them and got rid
of the originals later. I'm always up to date on the scanned logs just in
case.

[MRQB]

There were logs missing prior to new fabric being put on, Logs were missing
prior to any repairs, once or twice understandable but every time no way. No
compression check on last 2 annuals lots of info missing serial #'s & IA #'s
scratched out ect. I could understand making a back up copies but changing &
erasing things. The deal gave me a bad feeling I have looked at many
airplanes logs over the last to months these were the worst I have ever seen
something was just not right so I walked.


"Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote in message
ray.net...
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:02:42 -0800, MRQB wrote:
>
> > Q: Then how did you make photo copies if the original logs were
destroyed
> > with water
>
> It could also be how I do it. I scan my logs, so if I add oil I'll scan
> the log and add it to the electronic pdf version I keep. If my logs are
> so unlucky as to be lost, I have them all, yellow tags, logs, stc's, W&B,
> etc all in my pdf file.
>
> Just because mine could be a copy does not mean I copied them and got rid
> of the originals later. I'm always up to date on the scanned logs just in
> case.
>

[MRQB]

No!! he got violent and attacked me when I told him that I was not going to
buy his airplane. It was almost a fist fight he grabbed me and attempted to
strike me with his fist. But I talked him down instead of fighting in front
of my 7 year old son.





"Brad Z" > wrote in message
news:lzS%b.425694$na.859986@attbi_s04...
> I'm confused...you filed an assault report for photocopied logs? Why not
> just walk?
>
>
> "MRQB" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Don't deal with Jolly Dawson from Aurora, OR. He is rude
&
> > violent and is trying to sell a Piper Tri-Pacer with Photo copied logs
> > things scratched out, pages missing, & data plates that look modified.
> >
> > A police report for assault was filed against Jolly Dawson he got
> extremely
> > upset & violent when I told him I did not want to buy the airplane and
> that
> > maybe he should be more polite to prospective buyers. Threats by made
from
> > Jolly Dawson were recorded by a 911 operator in Marion County, Oregon
> >
> > Funniest thing I have herd yet while looking at an airplane's
> >
> > Q: why are all the logs photo copies
> > A: The original logs were destroyed by water
> >
> > Q: Then how did you make photo copies if the original logs were
destroyed
> > with water
> > A: No Answer, Just rude mumbling's how its not important to have the
> > original logs
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[CriticalMass]

Matthew P. Cummings wrote:

>I scan my logs, so if I add oil I'll scan
>the log and add it to the electronic pdf version I keep. If my logs are
>so unlucky as to be lost, I have them all, yellow tags, logs, stc's, W&B,
>etc all in my pdf file.
>

Probably just me, but that's obsessive-compulsive, IMO.

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:42:18 -0600, CriticalMass wrote:

> Probably just me, but that's obsessive-compulsive, IMO.

I don't know. Suppose the mechanic had a fire that destroyed his shop and
your logs were there and the plane survived. Suppose your house burned,
or suppose somehow something went south. Now you have a plane with no
logs, what do you suppose that's going to do to it's value?

Everybody I know copies their logs, I do the same thing but on computer so
that I can easily reproduce them or keep them offsite. I don't think the
tags are as important, but since it doesn't take very long to line them up
and scan them, why not?

By the way, by using the computer I can bookmark where each major job was
done, so I can tell quickly when the major was, vacuum pump replaced, etc
without spending time searching through the logs. I merely click on my
STC column for example, the EAA stc and can tell when it was applied to
the airframe and engine. Things like that are nice.

In the end, it's an insurance policy that makes maintenance easier.

[S Green]

"Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote in message
ray.net...
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:42:18 -0600, CriticalMass wrote:
>
> > Probably just me, but that's obsessive-compulsive, IMO.
>
> I don't know. Suppose the mechanic had a fire that destroyed his shop and
> your logs were there and the plane survived. Suppose your house burned,
> or suppose somehow something went south. Now you have a plane with no
> logs, what do you suppose that's going to do to it's value?
>
> Everybody I know copies their logs, I do the same thing but on computer so
> that I can easily reproduce them or keep them offsite. I don't think the
> tags are as important, but since it doesn't take very long to line them up
> and scan them, why not?
>
> By the way, by using the computer I can bookmark where each major job was
> done, so I can tell quickly when the major was, vacuum pump replaced, etc
> without spending time searching through the logs. I merely click on my
> STC column for example, the EAA stc and can tell when it was applied to
> the airframe and engine. Things like that are nice.
>
> In the end, it's an insurance policy that makes maintenance easier.

If I was a buyer then I would be interested in Matt's plane. Anyone who
takes that amount of care about his logs probably takes as much care of the
plane.

Good on you Matt

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:58:23 +0000, S Green wrote:

> If I was a buyer then I would be interested in Matt's plane. Anyone who

That's the other benefit if I ever decided to sell it, most sellers want
to see the logs and I have it in a form that most could read. I could
email them the logs and they could see them that day, add digital photo's
with it and they have a fairly complete package quickly, and for me little
expense because the logs don't have to be copied page by page for who
knows how many people. For those without a computer I could print it,
again it wouldn't take as long as copying and would save me money, so
there's another large benefit of scanning your logs.

[MRQB]

I agree with you there S Green
"S Green" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote in message
> ray.net...
> > On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:42:18 -0600, CriticalMass wrote:
> >
> > > Probably just me, but that's obsessive-compulsive, IMO.
> >
> > I don't know. Suppose the mechanic had a fire that destroyed his shop
and
> > your logs were there and the plane survived. Suppose your house burned,
> > or suppose somehow something went south. Now you have a plane with no
> > logs, what do you suppose that's going to do to it's value?
> >
> > Everybody I know copies their logs, I do the same thing but on computer
so
> > that I can easily reproduce them or keep them offsite. I don't think
the
> > tags are as important, but since it doesn't take very long to line them
up
> > and scan them, why not?
> >
> > By the way, by using the computer I can bookmark where each major job
was
> > done, so I can tell quickly when the major was, vacuum pump replaced,
etc
> > without spending time searching through the logs. I merely click on my
> > STC column for example, the EAA stc and can tell when it was applied to
> > the airframe and engine. Things like that are nice.
> >
> > In the end, it's an insurance policy that makes maintenance easier.
>
> If I was a buyer then I would be interested in Matt's plane. Anyone who
> takes that amount of care about his logs probably takes as much care of
the
> plane.
>
> Good on you Matt
>
>

[MRQB]

But would you buy someones airplane with logs that have been modified or
things removed?


"Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote in message
ray.net...
> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:58:23 +0000, S Green wrote:
>
> > If I was a buyer then I would be interested in Matt's plane. Anyone who
>
> That's the other benefit if I ever decided to sell it, most sellers want
> to see the logs and I have it in a form that most could read. I could
> email them the logs and they could see them that day, add digital photo's
> with it and they have a fairly complete package quickly, and for me little
> expense because the logs don't have to be copied page by page for who
> knows how many people. For those without a computer I could print it,
> again it wouldn't take as long as copying and would save me money, so
> there's another large benefit of scanning your logs.
>

[S Green]

"MRQB" > wrote in message
...
> But would you buy someones airplane with logs that have been modified or
> things removed?
>
It like buying antiques or works of art. Buying planes is all about
establishing provenance. If there are gaps in the records one needs to ask
why. If the books have been altered again one needs to ask why.

In buying a plane one needs to think the worst. Why are they getting rid of
it? If its is such a good plane why sell? How long have they had it?

Take nothing at face value and go through the logs with a fine tooth comb,
and take your own A& P.

Unfortunately aviation is one area where I have to reverse my principles.
Normally, I trust someone unless or until I have reason not to. In buying
planes, its the other way.

The saddest thing is finding something which even the seller did not know
and which trashes his aircraft and his dream. They sometimes take it out on
you when if they had been more thorough they would have bought something
else.

My only reservation with Matthew sending stuff over the internet is that
some dirtbag could copy his work and create false records for another
airplane.

sg

[MRQB]

Well the seller should not be rude when you ask the basic questions that is
if he wants to sell the airplane. Myself I am not going to pay an A & P
until I know that I want the airplane and I am ready for the pre buy
inspection. I have learned a lot by asking questions and talking with A &
P's to go look if I like what I see and ever thing looks ok, I will have an
A & P go look ever thing over everything at the pre buy. A seller should not
attack you when you tell them that your not going to buy. I wonder what he
would have done if I asked him to move it out of his shop in his back yard
of his mobile home over to my A & P's hanger for a pre buy inspection
probably would have shot me.



"S Green" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MRQB" > wrote in message
> ...
> > But would you buy someones airplane with logs that have been modified or
> > things removed?
> >
> It like buying antiques or works of art. Buying planes is all about
> establishing provenance. If there are gaps in the records one needs to
ask
> why. If the books have been altered again one needs to ask why.
>
> In buying a plane one needs to think the worst. Why are they getting rid
of
> it? If its is such a good plane why sell? How long have they had it?
>
> Take nothing at face value and go through the logs with a fine tooth comb,
> and take your own A& P.
>
> Unfortunately aviation is one area where I have to reverse my principles.
> Normally, I trust someone unless or until I have reason not to. In buying
> planes, its the other way.
>
> The saddest thing is finding something which even the seller did not know
> and which trashes his aircraft and his dream. They sometimes take it out
on
> you when if they had been more thorough they would have bought something
> else.
>
> My only reservation with Matthew sending stuff over the internet is that
> some dirtbag could copy his work and create false records for another
> airplane.
>
> sg
>
>

[JerryK]

By some estimates the logs are worth up to 20% of the airplane's value.
Some sort of care of these documents is in order.


"CriticalMass" > wrote in message
...
> Matthew P. Cummings wrote:
>
> >I scan my logs, so if I add oil I'll scan
> >the log and add it to the electronic pdf version I keep. If my logs are
> >so unlucky as to be lost, I have them all, yellow tags, logs, stc's, W&B,
> >etc all in my pdf file.
> >
>
> Probably just me, but that's obsessive-compulsive, IMO.
>

[Jay Honeck]

> By some estimates the logs are worth up to 20% of the airplane's value.
> Some sort of care of these documents is in order.

Sounds about right. My A&P told me that my logs were worth $15 - $20K.

They are therefore locked in a fire-proof safe, well away from the plane and
airport. And when they are in his office (during an annual inspection, for
instance), I am very paranoid until I get them back.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

I think it's just you. I do this as well---it's a heck of a lot easier,
cheaper, and more accessible than making photocopies.

CriticalMass wrote:

> Matthew P. Cummings wrote:
>
>> I scan my logs, so if I add oil I'll scan
>> the log and add it to the electronic pdf version I keep. If my logs are
>> so unlucky as to be lost, I have them all, yellow tags, logs, stc's, W&B,
>> etc all in my pdf file.
>>
>
> Probably just me, but that's obsessive-compulsive, IMO.
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> They are therefore locked in a fire-proof safe, well away from the plane and
> airport. And when they are in his office (during an annual inspection, for
> instance), I am very paranoid until I get them back.

I bring my logs in after the inspection is completed and I stay with them until
they are signed. If the IA can't do that right then, I'll bring them back, but
I don't leave them there.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.