Bigger tank for early Arrow

[PaulH]

Anybody know of a (legal) way to expand the 50 gal fuel capacity of an
early Piper Arrow?

(Yeah, I know, buy an Arrow II, but I love this airplane)

[Jay Honeck]

http://www.cabo-rental.net/cherokee235/cherokeestc1.htm

This is a list of every STC ever made for Cherokees. If there's one for
expanding the fuel capacity of the Arrow, it'll be listed here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[PaulH]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<UN41c.28397$PR3.505833@attbi_s03>...
> http://www.cabo-rental.net/cherokee235/cherokeestc1.htm
>
> This is a list of every STC ever made for Cherokees. If there's one for
> expanding the fuel capacity of the Arrow, it'll be listed here.

Thanks, Jay - great site for 235/6 owners! But not a tank listed.
Kinda surprising given the relatively small tank size.

Paul H

[[email protected]]

On 2-Mar-2004, (PaulH) wrote:

> Anybody know of a (legal) way to expand the 50 gal fuel capacity of an
> early Piper Arrow?
>
> (Yeah, I know, buy an Arrow II, but I love this airplane)


Actually, the larger (total 72 gal. usable) tanks did not appear until the
Arrow III. I understand that Piper went to the larger tanks because of the
thirstier Turbo Arrow III. The normally aspirated version benefited with
exceptional range. Of course you can't fill the tanks if the cabin load is
heavy, but being able to trade off range for payload is a very good feature.

The smaller (50 gal) tanks on earlier Arrows are a bit constraining for IFR
flights that require an alternate.

-Elliott Drucker

[John Galban]

(PaulH) wrote in message >...
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<UN41c.28397$PR3.505833@attbi_s03>...
> > http://www.cabo-rental.net/cherokee235/cherokeestc1.htm
> >
> > This is a list of every STC ever made for Cherokees. If there's one for
> > expanding the fuel capacity of the Arrow, it'll be listed here.
>
> Thanks, Jay - great site for 235/6 owners! But not a tank listed.
> Kinda surprising given the relatively small tank size.
>

50 gals is about 5 hrs of 75% cruise in the 180 hp Arrow. That's
not too bad. Unforunately, the bigger tanks were only fitted to
tapered wing Arrows.

I thought 50 gallons was a lot of fuel after stepping up from a 172
with 37.5 usable.


John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Jay Honeck]

> Well, if you don't feel comfortable sharing with me, then stay on the
ground.

Me, too. Then, I got 84 gallons.

Of course, my fuel burn went up 50%, so...

Much always wants more.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

John Galban > wrote:
: (PaulH) wrote in message >...
:> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<UN41c.28397$PR3.505833@attbi_s03>...
:> > http://www.cabo-rental.net/cherokee235/cherokeestc1.htm
:> >
:> > This is a list of every STC ever made for Cherokees. If there's one for
:> > expanding the fuel capacity of the Arrow, it'll be listed here.
:>
:> Thanks, Jay - great site for 235/6 owners! But not a tank listed.
:> Kinda surprising given the relatively small tank size.
:>

: 50 gals is about 5 hrs of 75% cruise in the 180 hp Arrow. That's
: not too bad. Unforunately, the bigger tanks were only fitted to
: tapered wing Arrows.

: I thought 50 gallons was a lot of fuel after stepping up from a 172
: with 37.5 usable.


: John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

The nice thing about the (relatively) higher power cherokees (or any plane for
that reason) is you don't *have* to use it. I generally fly my 180 at 65%, which is
like the 140/150 at 75% (8.5 gph) but kinder to the engine, can run a little leaner,
etc. There comes a point where putting more power on an airframe in cruise just makes
it burn more gas, not go much faster. I just looked at the cruise chart on mine...
roughly 15% more gph for 7% more speed from 65% to 75%. I suspect Jay can see that
pretty readily... of course he's got another 150 lbs of engine/airplane to have to
haul around too. What's your empty weight, Jay?

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[Andre]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<KrI1c.41942$PR3.827352@attbi_s03>...
> > Thanks, Jay - great site for 235/6 owners! But not a tank listed.
> > Kinda surprising given the relatively small tank size.
>
> Yeah, it's aimed primarily at the Pathfinder/Dakota crowd, but it has ALL
> the STCs listed in one place.
>
> A VERY valuable resource for all Cherokee drivers.

You know, I had wondered for several years if there was an STC to put
the Cherokee 235 tip tanks on an early Arrow. They shared the same
basic wing and it seems that all that would needed is to bolt them on
and plumb the system with the 235 stuff; pretty much using all OEM
hardware. I can't recall anymore but I think the 235 tip-tanks held
about 16 gal. useable, + or - . That would sure give a miserly Arrow
a nice range/endurance envelope to play with. I even suspect that it
would, with the added fuel weight in the wings, a slight gross weight
increase could argued for. Anybody heard of anyone putting the 235
tips on some other hershey-bared wing model?

Andre

[Aaron Coolidge]

Andre > wrote:

: You know, I had wondered for several years if there was an STC to put
: the Cherokee 235 tip tanks on an early Arrow. They shared the same
: basic wing and it seems that all that would needed is to bolt them on
: and plumb the system with the 235 stuff; pretty much using all OEM
: hardware. I can't recall anymore but I think the 235 tip-tanks held
: about 16 gal. useable, + or - . That would sure give a miserly Arrow
: a nice range/endurance envelope to play with. I even suspect that it
: would, with the added fuel weight in the wings, a slight gross weight
: increase could argued for. Anybody heard of anyone putting the 235
: tips on some other hershey-bared wing model?

Andre, I looked at this for my PA-28-180. The 235 wings are a lot different
from the PA-28-180 wings: the skins are thicker gauge, and the spar is
different. I can't find references to the PA-28R-180, other than to show that
it's different from the 235 and from the 140/150/160/180 airplanes.

PS, I have searched for additional tankage and have not found anything
available. If you do find something, please report!
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

[Andre]

Aaron Coolidge > wrote in message >...
> Andre > wrote:
>
> : You know, I had wondered for several years if there was an STC to put
> : the Cherokee 235 tip tanks on an early Arrow. They shared the same
> : basic wing and it seems that all that would needed is to bolt them on
> : and plumb the system with the 235 stuff; pretty much using all OEM
> : hardware. I can't recall anymore but I think the 235 tip-tanks held
> : about 16 gal. useable, + or - . That would sure give a miserly Arrow
> : a nice range/endurance envelope to play with. I even suspect that it
> : would, with the added fuel weight in the wings, a slight gross weight
> : increase could argued for. Anybody heard of anyone putting the 235
> : tips on some other hershey-bared wing model?
>
> Andre, I looked at this for my PA-28-180. The 235 wings are a lot different
> from the PA-28-180 wings: the skins are thicker gauge, and the spar is
> different. I can't find references to the PA-28R-180, other than to show that
> it's different from the 235 and from the 140/150/160/180 airplanes.
>
> PS, I have searched for additional tankage and have not found anything
> available. If you do find something, please report!


Aaron,

I wasn't aware of the 235 wings being that much different (had never
pursued it, though, either). Since it's free to dream, my other
brainstorm concept was (assuming I'd win the lottery) to explore if a
pair of older PA-32 Lance fuel tanks could be adapted into the Arrow
wing. Those things consist of 2 tanks each plumbed together (the
outboard one with a sight gauge). As the tanks are installed on both
the Arrow and the Lance AHEAD of the spar, I theorized that the Lance
tanks could be mated in to the Arrow as it seems they could fit
dimensionally in the same manner as they do in the Lance. Had you
ever looked at that idea, even just conceptually? Any opinions as to
its feasability?

I'd better stop talking like this before I raise too many eyebrows...

Andre

[Jay Honeck]

> I wasn't aware of the 235 wings being that much different (had never
> pursued it, though, either).

The 235 is nearly as different from other Cherokees as the Cessna 182 is
from the 172.

In addition to the 6 cylinders and constant speed prop, there are lots of
thicker skins throughout, to take the extra horsepower and weight. Also it
has a much different fuel system, and all sorts of extra structural
cross-members.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Aaron Coolidge]

Andre > wrote:
: Aaron,

: I wasn't aware of the 235 wings being that much different (had never
: pursued it, though, either). Since it's free to dream, my other
: brainstorm concept was (assuming I'd win the lottery) to explore if a
: pair of older PA-32 Lance fuel tanks could be adapted into the Arrow
: wing. Those things consist of 2 tanks each plumbed together (the
: outboard one with a sight gauge). As the tanks are installed on both
: the Arrow and the Lance AHEAD of the spar, I theorized that the Lance
: tanks could be mated in to the Arrow as it seems they could fit
: dimensionally in the same manner as they do in the Lance. Had you
: ever looked at that idea, even just conceptually? Any opinions as to
: its feasability?

: I'd better stop talking like this before I raise too many eyebrows...

Hmm, those twin-tank setups are on Senecas too. What I think would be the
"ultimate" solution would be to transplant the Arrow III (37 gal) tank
to the Cherokee 180 (or the straight-wing 180 and 200 Arrow). I actually
measured this, and it would fit. The outer end of the tank is one wing
"bay" longer on the 37 Gal tank. There is already a rib in the proper
position. The operation would be (1) remove old tank (2) cut wing skin
one bay further out (3) remove rib thus exposed, replacing it with the
old outer rib (4 - and this one is dicey) re-drill spar to take screws
in the extended tank area (5) put in new tank.

Before I start spending $1000s that I don't have, I should stop!
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)