Anyone use Air Chart?

[Steven Barnes]

I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any experience
with these charts? My flight instructor recently got them. For someone that
does a bit of traveling, it sounds like a great deal. I'm curious how
practical they are (in-flight usage, not able to draw the big 'ol line
across 2 or 3 sectionals, etc).

Thanks.




PP-ASEL

[Bob Fry]

I used their WAC charts for a flight last summer from California to
Oshkosh. I thought they were great and their new Sectional charts
should be even better.

[SeeAndAvoid]

I have Airchart Systems Aviation Topographic Atlas and VFR Enroute Atlas,
they came with my airplane when I bought it a couple years ago. Times used
in flight, zero. Renew? No.

I thought seriously about going for their whole package as I'm covering most
of the eastern US this summer in one trip. I wanted the VFR/IFR package
with approach charts. If one is going to use all those charts more than a
couple times spread out over the course of a year, it's worth it. Otherwise
most people would be paying for alot of stuff they'll never use, or use only
once. The VFR Enroute Atlas, unless they've changed it since 2000, is
pretty worthless, IMO. Nearly all of that info is available to me by other
means.

The Topographic Atlas I like, cool to glance at every now and then. The
Class C charts in the back are nice. But the Class B charts are not from
the associated Terminal Area Chart, it's from the sectional, as is the Class
C's. So you may still need to buy a TAC chart or two, or several.
I assume the IFR book is probably pretty good, although I havent seen it and
guess you have to pencil-in changes. The price is a little high for
everything, but they look like they put alot of work into their atlas's, the
topographic one anyway.

Instead I just went through Sporty's and bought what I needed for this trip,
and got a subscription to the charts I use year round. One hassle is this
trip crosses over two 56 day cycles, so a couple I need to buy two cycles,
and find the right ones on the road - although Sportys said they'd send it
out to where I was, pretty cool getting flight charts from the hotels front
desk.

Anyway, theres my 2 cents,
Chris


"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any
experience
> with these charts? My flight instructor recently got them. For someone
that
> does a bit of traveling, it sounds like a great deal. I'm curious how
> practical they are (in-flight usage, not able to draw the big 'ol line
> across 2 or 3 sectionals, etc).
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> PP-ASEL
>
>

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Steven Barnes > wrote:
> I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any experience
>with these charts? My flight instructor recently got them. For someone that
>does a bit of traveling, it sounds like a great deal.

I was just looking at those myself.

The new sectional charts seem like a good deal: to cover the whole US
costs about half what it would to buy the individual sectionals,
in theory you update them over 2 cycles, AND they're spiral bound.
I figure the updates won't be a big deal and it will even save me
having to redraw the TFRs a few times. I've seen mixed reviews of
their home-grown VFR products, but how badly could they screw up a
reprint of the sectionals?

Whether you like the "captain's guide" probably depends on what you fly.
They keep it small by limiting it to >2500' hard-surface runways. If
you fly a twin you're probably not missing anything. I do wonder about
the misc A/FD things that the FAA shovels in because they have no other
place for it. VOT frequencies, preferred routes, lots of phone numbers
for things like FSS, etc. Plus the AF/D now has full page runway diagrams
for many airports (nice if you don't have that duplicated by IFR charts).
The captain's guide is very inexpensive compared to any alternative
(less than a subscription to any one AF/D, same price as any one of the
three Flite Guide books, which I hate).

IFR atlas I'd lump in with the sectionals. Actual NACO charts, but
ring bound. Updates probably no big deal.

The approach plates sound like a nightmare. NACO books or loose leaf
(your choice) combined with manual (as in you write on the chart) updates
of the charts. At least if you buy the NACO plates normally you get
to toss torn up books and you never have to do updates. Of course you
could buy all the NACO plates yourself, and you could get updates off
the web if they changed, so I guess the only service here is sending you
the text descriptions of the changes.

Maybe the way to go is to supplement their IFR atlas with a subscription
to the Sporty's DVD of NACO plates and print what you need. Or buy the
regional NACO book you need when you need it.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Dennis O'Connor]

I have used the Howie Keefe AirChart system for decades and it is an
excellent system...
denny

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:N8b8c.83873$po.654476@attbi_s52...
> In article >,
> Steven Barnes > wrote:
> > I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any
experience
> >with these charts?

[vincent p. norris]

Every May, I buy the Terps and Enroute charts I expect to need from
Uncle Sam. Then I subscribe to Airchart's Updates.

The best of both worlds.

vince norris

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Steven Barnes" > said:
> I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any experience
>with these charts? My flight instructor recently got them. For someone that

I used the IFR Atlas for my Oshkosh trip, and a couple of shorter trips.
I had an approach plate subscription as well, but I could never get the
hang of all the updates.

This year, I've renewed the IFR Atlas, added the VFR Sectional Chart East,
and dropped the approach plate part. I've got a subscription for the
local approach plates (and A/FD and local sectionals) through
flyairways.com and I'll order whatever extras I need for trips.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH

[Ray Andraka]

I used to use Sporty's. I now use Avmaps.com. They are quite a bit cheaper
than Sporty's and they only charge the actual shipping, not the inflated
shipping and handling Sporty's does.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Stu Gotts]

I subscribed a few times, but got ****ed off after not seeing
identifiers, frequencies and the like available information that is
usually contained on the sectionals. Plus, everywhere I wanted to go
seemed to be either covered over or right on the next page. I do keep
a copy for quick trip reference, though.

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:18:43 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
> wrote:

>I have used the Howie Keefe AirChart system for decades and it is an
>excellent system...
>denny
>
>"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
>news:N8b8c.83873$po.654476@attbi_s52...
>> In article >,
>> Steven Barnes > wrote:
>> > I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any
>experience
>> >with these charts?
>

[ArtP]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:11:47 -0600, Stu Gotts >
wrote:

>I subscribed a few times, but got ****ed off after not seeing
>identifiers, frequencies and the like available information that is
>usually contained on the sectionals.

They now offer sectionals.

[[email protected]]

I think it really depends on your expected usage. If you fly a lot to a
lot of different places, you could save some money with the airchart
system and have a good service to boot. If you are a local yokel it is
certainly overkill.

I subscribed to the VFR topo atlas for two years, and used it for a few
"local long distance" flights as well as a very long round-robin from
California to the midwest and back. Note that my experience is with the
VFR topo atlas (WAC charts) only---someone else will have to do the math
with IFR charts.

Form factor was not a problem. In fact, I preferred having the charts
bound rather than coping with folding and re-folding a full-size
sectional or WAC in a small cockpit. It was also fun having access to
detailed information about the entire country, and going on lots of
mental flights in the living room.

The best part was the continual summarized updates. Every four weeks I
got a card in the mail that had all of the updates for that cycle
summarized. That alone is worth the price of the ticket---I found it
much easier to digest than the same information presented in my local
A/FD, and this was for the whole country.

There were two down-sides, neither of which had to do with their business.

One, I don't much care for the WAC format---identifiers and frequencies
are missing, and the scale is out far enough that the charts are
difficult to use in mountainous country. Sectionals are much preferred
for low-level flying, listening to AWOS reports en route, and
topographical information. I got stuck in a canyon in New Mexico
because it was unclear from the charts how high the ridge was that I was
trying to cross, and it was on a page boundary. Not a big deal in my
case, but I could see it being dangerous---in the future I will always
use sectionals for mountain flying.

My guess is that their new sectional atlases will take care of this problem.

The other problem is one of economics, for me at least. I don't
actually NEED detailed maps of the entire country, or even half of it.
99% of my flying at this point is local, such that one sectional, one
TAC, and one A/FD subscription fulfills all my needs, and at a lower
cost than the Airchart subscription.

Surprisingly, I don't actually save that much---2 sectionals in a year
are $16, 2 TACs are another $8, and 12 A/FDs at $4.50 apiece add up to
$54, for a total of $78. So in reality I am only saving $30, about an
hour's flying in my plane. Although, if I don't buy an A/FD I will need
FlightGuide or something similar for airport information, so add another
$25 to the Airchart side.

If I do gear up (no pun intended) for a long trip in the future I will
very likely purchase a sectional atlas.

> I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any experience

[[email protected]]

Out of curiosity, Ben, why do you hate the Flite Guides? I find them
quite useful.

> (less than a subscription to any one AF/D, same price as any one of the
> three Flite Guide books, which I hate).

[Michael]

(Ben Jackson) wrote
> having to redraw the TFRs a few times. I've seen mixed reviews of
> their home-grown VFR products, but how badly could they screw up a
> reprint of the sectionals?

By leaving out something important? I used their IFR service. One
fine day I filed across the Gulf - Marco Island, FL to Houma, LA. I
filed based on the briefer's suggestion - one of the G-routes. While
already out over the Gulf, I was rerouted via a Q-route - seems the
G-routes were decomissioned. No problem - the Gulf inset is part of
L-16, and I'm supposed to have all of the NACO charts in the atlas.
And I do - everything but that one part of that one chart. Had to get
the controller to read me the fixes on my route. Ugly.

> Whether you like the "captain's guide" probably depends on what you fly.
> They keep it small by limiting it to >2500' hard-surface runways. If
> you fly a twin you're probably not missing anything.

Don't bet on it. Lots of us twin drivers are perfectly capable of
using grass strips and short paved strips - especially if we have to.
The Captain's guide is not a substitute for an A&FD, for that and the
other reasons you mentioned.

> IFR atlas I'd lump in with the sectionals. Actual NACO charts, but
> ring bound. Updates probably no big deal.

True - but see above.

> The approach plates sound like a nightmare. NACO books or loose leaf
> (your choice) combined with manual (as in you write on the chart) updates
> of the charts.

Actually not a major deal - updating a plate by hand is no biggie, and
some updates are pointless anyway. Here's the gotcha - if new plates
show up, you don't get those. You have to go to their web page, enter
a code, download, and print out. This is particularly bad when a new
STAR or DP is issued...

Bottom line - I'm not renewing my subscription.

Michael

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
> wrote:
>Out of curiosity, Ben, why do you hate the Flite Guides? I find them
>quite useful.

Well, I was bitter right off that I was promised 2 updates which turned
out to mean you get an IMMEDIATE update (since it turns out you bought an
expired book) and then ONE update in the future.

Doing the updates is a pain.

I don't like the form factor. It's a small, thick binder. It doesn't
stack well with other aviation publications, it doesn't fit neatly in
my kneeboard like an A/FD and it doesn't fit well in airplane side
pockets. The small pages mean fewer airports are visible at a glance,
which leads to more flipping.

I bought it because I like the information layout and especially the
runway diagrams. Since then (few years ago) the A/FD has gotten far
more airport diagrams for the small airports and has full size diagrams
for many large airports. There has always been information in the
A/FD other than airports, most of which is not in the Flite Guide.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Michael > wrote:
>
>Actually not a major deal - updating a plate by hand is no biggie, and
>some updates are pointless anyway.

I had just envisioned it in terms of "what if the sheaf of Jepp updates
I get meant I actually had to understand what changed instead of just
throwing away an old sheet and putting in another".

I was describing this to my wife (her eyes glazed over, of course) and it
occured to me that I'd be perfectly happy -- and save money, even! -- if
I could pay the ~$4.25 for a brand-new terminal procedures book for every
approach I ever do. The whole problem is being ready in advance...

>Bottom line - I'm not renewing my subscription.

So what's your new charting solution?

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Rich Badaracco]

I've used the Aircharts IFR system for just about a year now. All in all
I've been very satisfied with it and just renewed my subscription. The atlas
has replaced my kneeboard and is generally easy to use. The cumulative
updates are much easier than filing Jepp updates for approaches I'll never
fly. I did manage to rip the page out of the atlas which contained my home
airport but that is only a minor inconvenience. As for drawing the big ol
line, I still do that across the pages on the route. Makes it a lot easier
to switch from page to page in flight. If you fly in a lot of different
areas regularly I would definitely recommend it.
"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any
experience
> with these charts? My flight instructor recently got them. For someone
that
> does a bit of traveling, it sounds like a great deal. I'm curious how
> practical they are (in-flight usage, not able to draw the big 'ol line
> across 2 or 3 sectionals, etc).
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> PP-ASEL
>
>

[MichaelR]

That's not correct.
Sporty's charges only actual shipping costs on chart subscriptions.

However, if you buy charts outside of a subscription, they charge according
to their "standard shipping and handling" table.



"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> I used to use Sporty's. I now use Avmaps.com. They are quite a bit
cheaper
> than Sporty's and they only charge the actual shipping, not the inflated
> shipping and handling Sporty's does.
>
> --
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.

[Stu Gotts]

In the spiral bound form?

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:23:44 GMT, ArtP
> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:11:47 -0600, Stu Gotts >
>wrote:
>
>>I subscribed a few times, but got ****ed off after not seeing
>>identifiers, frequencies and the like available information that is
>>usually contained on the sectionals.
>
>They now offer sectionals.

[ArtP]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:21:27 -0600, Stu Gotts >
wrote:

>In the spiral bound form?

Just like the IFR and WAC's, except you get 2 books. One for the east
half of the US and one for the West half.


>
>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:23:44 GMT, ArtP
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:11:47 -0600, Stu Gotts >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I subscribed a few times, but got ****ed off after not seeing
>>>identifiers, frequencies and the like available information that is
>>>usually contained on the sectionals.
>>
>>They now offer sectionals.

[Mark Manes]

I've used Aircharts for about 5 yrs now. I fly mostly from Arkansas to
Dallas, Omaha and New Orleans, but fly to enough other places that I want to
have the charts when the need arises. I nearly always file IFR and use the
bound NACO and IFR Atlas. The updates are easy, you don't update unless you
are going to use those charts. I check on line before a trip to make sure
that the plates for the destination and several points in between are up to
date, if not I print new plates and tape it over the old in in the book.
Pretty simple. I really like the Jepp charts but don't like to keep up with
the updates and to cover the whole US is expensive. This year I'm getting
the Sectional Atlases along with the approach plates and IFR Atlas. Thought
that I would try them once to see how much usage they get.

"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any
experience
> with these charts? My flight instructor recently got them. For someone
that
> does a bit of traveling, it sounds like a great deal. I'm curious how
> practical they are (in-flight usage, not able to draw the big 'ol line
> across 2 or 3 sectionals, etc).
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> PP-ASEL
>
>


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Ray Andraka]

Sporty's pack them in separate packages for L charts, AFDs, VFR charts and
TERPs. My cost going to avmaps is about 60% of what I was paying to Sporty's.
On an IFR revision cycle, I got 3 separate packages, each with $5+ shipping
charges. Avmaps packs them all in one package, and the shipping totals less
than $10, plus they include the VFR charts in the same package if they are near
expiration.

MichaelR wrote:

> That's not correct.
> Sporty's charges only actual shipping costs on chart subscriptions.
>
> However, if you buy charts outside of a subscription, they charge according
> to their "standard shipping and handling" table.
>
> "Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I used to use Sporty's. I now use Avmaps.com. They are quite a bit
> cheaper
> > than Sporty's and they only charge the actual shipping, not the inflated
> > shipping and handling Sporty's does.
> >
> > --
> > --Ray Andraka, P.E.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Stu Gotts]

On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:08:36 GMT, ArtP
> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:21:27 -0600, Stu Gotts >
>wrote:
>
>>In the spiral bound form?
>
>Just like the IFR and WAC's, except you get 2 books. One for the east
>half of the US and one for the West half.

Then this must be rather new. I have 2002 editions and they're WAC.
I'll need to have a look again.
>
>
>>
>>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:23:44 GMT, ArtP
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:11:47 -0600, Stu Gotts >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I subscribed a few times, but got ****ed off after not seeing
>>>>identifiers, frequencies and the like available information that is
>>>>usually contained on the sectionals.
>>>
>>>They now offer sectionals.

[Jerryk]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 03:53:49 +0000, Steven Barnes wrote:

>
> I saw an ad in AOPA for www.airchart.com . Does anyone have any experience
> with these charts? My flight instructor recently got them. For someone that
> does a bit of traveling, it sounds like a great deal. I'm curious how
> practical they are (in-flight usage, not able to draw the big 'ol line
> across 2 or 3 sectionals, etc).
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> PP-ASEL

I tried them, but could never keep up with the updates. The Airway atlas
is pretty neat.

I am now using JeepView and that works pretty well.

jerry

[[email protected]]

The updates are the best part. The publication is cumulative---all you
have to do is throw out the old one and put the new one in the little
envelope in back, and remember to look at it when you are planning a
flight.

When I was shopping I found the Jepp stuff to be rather expensive.


> I tried them, but could never keep up with the updates. The Airway atlas
> is pretty neat.
>
> I am now using JeepView and that works pretty well.
>
> jerry
>
>