HOT start 180HP engine

[Hankal]

My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
Today she would not fire and the battery went south.

Any recommendations, suggestions.
Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
Hank N1441P

[No Spam]

> My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
> When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
> My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
> times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
> Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
>
> Any recommendations, suggestions.
> Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
> Hank N1441P

On my O-360, when hot, I don't prime at all. Pump throttle once, crack 1/4"
and crank. Starts every time.

This on a Husky - no fuel pump.

No Spam

[Maule Driver]

> > My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
> > When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
> > My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime
throttle 3
> > times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
> > Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
> >
> > Any recommendations, suggestions.
> > Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
> > Hank N1441P
>
> On my O-360, when hot, I don't prime at all. Pump throttle once, crack
1/4"
> and crank. Starts every time.
>
> This on a Husky - no fuel pump.
>
Same here on my 360/180 powered Maule. In warm weather, cold starts are
easy with 3 pumps of throttle, when engine is already hot, 1 pump does it.
No primer except with temp is 55F or less. Never use the fuel pump.

[Nathan Young]

On 28 Mar 2004 22:32:48 GMT, (Hankal) wrote:

>My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
>When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
>My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
>times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
>Today she would not fire and the battery went south.

Master, fuel pump, no primer, mixture rich, crack throttle. Crank.

After 2 tries, if it will not start in this manner, then I assume it
is not longer 'hot' and prime regularly.

This is on a Cherokee 180... I believe it is easier to start than
most when hot.

-Nathan

[John P]

Put a carburetor on the bench from a 180hp Lycoming and fill it with fuel.
Pump the
throttle(once) and watch the fuel hit the ceiling. You'll never pump the
throttle again when
the engine is hot!!! It's best just to go rich( a hot start, not fuel
injected) and crack the throttle,
crank a half a dozen blades, should start if engine is OK. I believe there
is more fuel thrown to the engine
with the throttle than the primer. Remember, the primer only adds fuel to
three of the cylinders and
not the fourth, so that helps on a hot start is one pump is needed from the
primer.

John Prince

From: "Nathan Young" >
Subject: Re: HOT start 180HP engine
Date: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:14 AM

On 28 Mar 2004 22:32:48 GMT, (Hankal) wrote:

>My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
>When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
>My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle
3
>times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
>Today she would not fire and the battery went south.

Master, fuel pump, no primer, mixture rich, crack throttle. Crank.

After 2 tries, if it will not start in this manner, then I assume it
is not longer 'hot' and prime regularly.

This is on a Cherokee 180... I believe it is easier to start than
most when hot.

-Nathan

[PaulaJay1]

In article >,
(Hankal) writes:

>My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
>When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
>My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
>times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
>Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
>
>Any recommendations, suggestions.
>Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
>Hank N1441P

With the 360 on my Archer, I find that if I start again within an hour or two,
I start cranking with the mixture still cut off. There always seems to be a
little gas left somewhere and the engine gives a "chug" and if you advance the
mixture at the "chug" , you have an easy start. I figure that flooding is the
worry, so start cranking with the fuel cut off.

Chuck

[[email protected]]

Quite correct. If you think about the rather large *quantity* of fuel
squirted out of the updraft carb with the accelerator pump, you won't want to use it
to prime again... *especially* on a hot engine. Since it can take a bit to get fuel
through the intake runners (since it was shut down with the cutoff), I will sometimes
give it 1/2 to 1 squirt with the throttle, but only while already cranking. If you do
it before you're cranking, you're guaranteeing fuel pooling up on the intake ducting
to the carb... you know, right by the fuzzy oil-soaked air filter material. :)

-Cory

John P
> wrote:
: Put a carburetor on the bench from a 180hp Lycoming and fill it with fuel.
: Pump the
: throttle(once) and watch the fuel hit the ceiling. You'll never pump the
: throttle again when
: the engine is hot!!! It's best just to go rich( a hot start, not fuel
: injected) and crack the throttle,
: crank a half a dozen blades, should start if engine is OK. I believe there
: is more fuel thrown to the engine
: with the throttle than the primer. Remember, the primer only adds fuel to
: three of the cylinders and
: not the fourth, so that helps on a hot start is one pump is needed from the
: primer.

: John Prince

: From: "Nathan Young" >
: Subject: Re: HOT start 180HP engine
: Date: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:14 AM

: On 28 Mar 2004 22:32:48 GMT, (Hankal) wrote:

:>My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
:>When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
:>My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle
: 3
:>times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
:>Today she would not fire and the battery went south.

: Master, fuel pump, no primer, mixture rich, crack throttle. Crank.

: After 2 tries, if it will not start in this manner, then I assume it
: is not longer 'hot' and prime regularly.

: This is on a Cherokee 180... I believe it is easier to start than
: most when hot.

: -Nathan



--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[Ross Richardson]

I have the same engine in my C-172F. If the engine is hot, why are you
priming? You only need to do that the first thing, sometimes. When hot
the only thing I do is hit the fuel pump to bring up the pressure, turn
it off, then crank. If it doens't catch right away, I will pump the
throttle once while cranking. I generrally start quickly every time.
Now, when I do flood it; mixture cut-off and thottle full open and crank
til start. Then mixture full rich and throttle 1/4" set.

Ross

Hankal wrote:
>
> My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
> When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
> My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
> times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
> Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
>
> Any recommendations, suggestions.
> Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
> Hank N1441P

[Mike Z.]

I have a stupid unrelated question.

Why do you have a fuel pump on a '73 carbed 'Hawk?

I assume it is related to the 180 upgrade and I ask because I have that in the back of my mind for overhaul time.

Mike Z

"Hankal" > wrote in message ...
> My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
> When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
> My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
> times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
> Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
>
> Any recommendations, suggestions.
> Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
> Hank N1441P

[Ross Richardson]

My '65 C-172 with the 180 conversion also has a fuel pump installed.

Ross

"Mike Z." wrote:
>
> I have a stupid unrelated question.
>
> Why do you have a fuel pump on a '73 carbed 'Hawk?
>
> I assume it is related to the 180 upgrade and I ask because I have that in the back of my mind for overhaul time.
>
> Mike Z
>
> "Hankal" > wrote in message ...
> > My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
> > When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
> > My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
> > times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
> > Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
> >
> > Any recommendations, suggestions.
> > Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
> > Hank N1441P

[Mike Z.]

My carbureted Hawk gets by fine on gravity feed. I am still trying to understand the need for the pump. Of course you have to have
one on fuel injection. Maybe they add it instead of making the fuel lines larger?

Mike Z (still puzzled)

"Ross Richardson" > wrote in message ...
> My '65 C-172 with the 180 conversion also has a fuel pump installed.
>
> Ross
>
> "Mike Z." wrote:
> >
> > I have a stupid unrelated question.
> >
> > Why do you have a fuel pump on a '73 carbed 'Hawk?
> >
> > I assume it is related to the 180 upgrade and I ask because I have that in the back of my mind for overhaul time.
> >
> > Mike Z
> >
> > "Hankal" > wrote in message ...
> > > My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
> > > When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
> > > My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
> > > times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
> > > Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
> > >
> > > Any recommendations, suggestions.
> > > Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
> > > Hank N1441P

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Mike Z." wrote:
>
> I am still trying to understand the need for the pump.

It's quite likely that the only need for the pump was that it was significantly
easier to get the STC for the engine with a fuel pump than without one.

George Patterson
Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if treason
be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason.

[[email protected]]

Tell me about it. We now have three fuel pumps on our Cherokee. The autogas
STC replaces the original electric backup with two other electric backups, and of
course there's the mechanical engine pump. Yet another instance of what's legal isn't
necessarily safe, and what's safe is not necessarily legal. I'm sure it's mostly a
paperwork thing as CYA from a marginal original design.

-Cory

G.R. Patterson III > wrote:
: "Mike Z." wrote:
:>
:> I am still trying to understand the need for the pump.

: It's quite likely that the only need for the pump was that it was significantly
: easier to get the STC for the engine with a fuel pump than without one.

: George Patterson
: Treason is ne'er successful, Sir; what then be the reason? Why, if treason
: be successful, Sir, then none dare call it treason.

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

[Hankal]

It's best just to go rich( a hot start, not fuel
injected) and crack the throttle,
crank a half a dozen blades, should start if engine is OK.

Snip.
The plugs were cleaned and gapped,
Checked timing, Left mag was off by 4 degrees.
Cold start fired up on 3rd revolution.
Once the engine was hot, I had mixture rick, cracked throttle and she would not
start. Waited 2 minutes, Pumped throttle once and she started on the 3rd
revolution.
Problem solved?

[Hankal]

>I have a stupid unrelated question.
>
>Why do you have a fuel pump on a '73 carbed 'Hawk?
>
>I assume it is related to the 180 upgrade and I ask because I have that in
>the back of my mind for overhaul time.

Simple answer, it has the Avcon Conversion

[John]

When my Cessna 172 gets hard to start, hot or cold, I replace the
coil in the impulse mag with a NEW coil. This has always fixed the
problem. (This has worked three times in the last 15 years.)
I have found that the coils in rebuilt mags may not be the best
either.
John

On 28 Mar 2004 22:32:48 GMT, (Hankal) wrote:

>My 1973 Skyhawk has the 360/180 hp engine carburated.
>When the engine is hot it is difficult to start.
>My procedure is master switch battery side on, fuel pump on. Prime throttle 3
>times. Fuel pump off, turn starter while advancing the throttle.
>Today she would not fire and the battery went south.
>
>Any recommendations, suggestions.
>Will check timing and Magnetos tomorrow.
>Hank N1441P