Cheap paint job

[Paul Folbrecht]

The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
half that??

[BTIZ]

MACCO...


"Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
> justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
> there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
> half that??

[FLYWITHJAY]

Take the wings off and get it into your garage.... ;)

[Paul Folbrecht]

Come on, I want good answers to my stupid question!

Seriously, there's gotta be a way to get this done for well under $7K,
and I'm quite willing to do whatever work I can myself.

FLYWITHJAY wrote:

> Take the wings off and get it into your garage.... ;)

[Bob Noel]

In article >, Paul
Folbrecht > wrote:

> Come on, I want good answers to my stupid question!
>
> Seriously, there's gotta be a way to get this done for well under $7K,
> and I'm quite willing to do whatever work I can myself.

Considering that a small plane has 3 to 4 times the surface area
of a car, and considering EPA regulations for stripping paint and
painting, and considering how careful you want to be when stripping
paint (e.g., not damaging parts of your airplane), you have to figure
that doing the job right for much less than $7,000 would be
a challenge.

--
Bob Noel

[Kyle Boatright]

"FLYWITHJAY" > wrote in message
...
> Take the wings off and get it into your garage.... ;)

Not a bad idea. You can probably strip and paint that entire C-152 for
under $2,000 in materials. If you're not comfortable holding a spray gun,
you can get an auto body guy to spray it in your garage. Or, even better,
most decent size towns have a few spray booths that can be rented on
weekends. I painted my own plane, but found several individuals who would
have sprayed it for a nominal (cash) donation IF I did all the prep work.

KB

[Mike Spera]

There is a way. You will need a hangar to work in with a large
compressor (3-5 REAL horsepower - twin cylinder, 60 gallon tank 220V).
Obtain a conventional production spray gun (Binks Model 7 or similar).
Wash the plane, dry it well, blow out all the seams with air, and mask
it off. Dry sand lightly with 320 (dry white paper, not black
wet-or-dry). Do the wings one day and the fuselage the next day
(covering the part you are not painting COMPLETELY). For a 150, you
could do the entire thing at once, but you need to hustle. This is not
something you try if you have no experience. Put the plane OUTSIDE on a
calm afternoon and wear a charcoal filter respirator. Or, if you have an
alternate air supply (not just a filter mask - outside air with a hose
attached to a face mask), use that and put the plane inside and leave
the door open 3 or 4 feet. Cover yourself COMPLETELY (long sleeve shirt,
light gloves, hood, long pants). FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE CAN TO THE
LETTER.

Paint only on calm, clear days with humidity under around 60%, temps
from 65F to 80F. Use the activator/thinner for the temps you spray in.
Ask the paint store for the right stuff. FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE
CAN TO THE LETTER.

Spray on 3 coats of the same base color that is on there using a single
stage urethane (some colors need more, white usually needs 3 - although
I only did 2 on mine). You get the paint and sandpaper at an auto body
supply shop, NOT the hardware store or home center. For a 150 base
color, you will need around 6 quarts. I would get 2 gallons and activate
ONLY what you need (2 quarts at a time). Keep the rest for touch
ups/accidents/new wing tips. Paint the entire airplane (wings or
fuselage) covering over any existing accent colors. Wait a day and mask
off the accent color (or one of the accent colors if there is more than
one). Use 3-M fine line tape for the edges of any stripe. Use 3M 3/4
inch masking tape for the rest of the masking (add a piece of 3/4 on
top of the fine line to give you a bigger surface to tape the paper to).
Press down the edge of the fine line tape using a scotch brite FINE
pad. Don't press/sand until you screw up the tape, just enough for it to
stick completely (it changes color when it is right). Then do the other
accent colors, again COMPLETELY covering the rest of the bird (aka
reverse masking). Put back any parts you removed.

Now, cross your fingers that the new paint will adhere to the substrate.
99 times out of 100 it will. The trick to modern urethanes is to NOT
paint the rest of the airport because the stuff sticks to EVERYTHING
that is not covered in oil or dirt. The blacktop or concrete you paint
on will forever be the color of the plane. If you don't want that. put
down tarps within a 50 FOOT radius of the plane. FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS
ON THE CAN TO THE LETTER.

This job will cost you around $1000 in paint and material, provided you
have the compressor, spray gun, oil/water separator for the air line,
and mask/air supply. Don't skip the filter mask or outside air. This
stuff is VERY dangerous to breathe. It WILL harden on the surface of
your lungs!!! FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE CAN TO THE LETTER.

If you have no experience painting, or no experience painting with the
paint brand/type you choose, get someone who has. Practice on something
small, like a toolbox. Oh yeah, FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS ON THE CAN TO THE
LETTER.

Good Luck,
Mike

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
> The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
> justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
> there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
> half that??


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[Stu Gotts]

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:16:57 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>
>"FLYWITHJAY" > wrote in message
...
>> Take the wings off and get it into your garage.... ;)
>
>Not a bad idea. You can probably strip and paint that entire C-152 for
>under $2,000 in materials. If you're not comfortable holding a spray gun,
>you can get an auto body guy to spray it in your garage. Or, even better,
>most decent size towns have a few spray booths that can be rented on
>weekends. I painted my own plane, but found several individuals who would
>have sprayed it for a nominal (cash) donation IF I did all the prep work.
>
>KB
>
Vigorously shop it. I've heard there are a few who will slap some
paint on for about $3K. You may want to inquire of some of the
airplane brokers (sorry for the foul language) and dealers in your
area. They'll know who the deal makers are.

[Rich]

I painted a small plane in a T hangar many years ago.
Overspray drifted into the two adjacent hangars and for a while I
thought I was going to have to pay for TWO additional professional paint
jobs.

BELIEVE what Mike says about overspray drifting like you would never
believe!

(We got the overspray off of one Bonanza because it had a nice new paint
job. We got the overspray off the other Bonanza because it had an old
dull paint job and its owner was pleased at his new shiny wings!)

Rich


Mike Spera wrote:
>
> Now, cross your fingers that the new paint will adhere to the substrate.
> 99 times out of 100 it will. The trick to modern urethanes is to NOT
> paint the rest of the airport because the stuff sticks to EVERYTHING
> that is not covered in oil or dirt. The blacktop or concrete you paint
> on will forever be the color of the plane. If you don't want that. put
> down tarps within a 50 FOOT radius of the plane. FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS
> ON THE CAN TO THE LETTER.
>

[jsmith]

If you are going to use IMRON, you MUST, REPEAT, MUST wear full body
protection with the minimum of a pressure hood.
Spraying IMRON in an enclosed area without this protection will KILL you.
IMRON and others paints of this family contain cyanide which is absorbed
through the exposed skin.
This is very serious stuff and requires knowledge, respect and
understanding of the material.

[dave]

Most of the costs of painting is the prep work!!

If you dont mind flying a ugly airplane, start stripping it yourself a
piece at a time.
It can be a flying project. One wing per weekend.
If you do this, you are going to need the correct stripper to do a good
job.
Don't go to Home Depot to get stripper, it doesn't work worth Sh$t. Go
to the airplane store and get real stripper or go to some of the quality
automotive paint stores and get stripper that will work with the paints
like Imron.
As always, you will want to power wash the plane after each stripping as
stripping stuff will corrode if left in the seams.

When your finished, you may like the look of a shinny aluminum airplane!

Or have someone paint it at that point.

Dave


jsmith wrote:
> If you are going to use IMRON, you MUST, REPEAT, MUST wear full body
> protection with the minimum of a pressure hood.
> Spraying IMRON in an enclosed area without this protection will KILL you.
> IMRON and others paints of this family contain cyanide which is absorbed
> through the exposed skin.
> This is very serious stuff and requires knowledge, respect and
> understanding of the material.

[Nathan Young]

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 21:54:38 -0600, Paul Folbrecht
> wrote:

>The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
>justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
>there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
>half that??

Paul -

Painting an aircraft is not difficult, but requires a lot of
speciality stuff that 99% of us don't have access. Nor is it cost
effective to acquire and assemble the material.

I'd recommend shopping the job around and having the paint done by
professional. It would be a shame to spend a few $K on your own
paintjob only to have it turn out poorly, or start peeling 1-2 years
later. Alternatively - you might be able to talk a paint shop into
doing a reduced rate if you do all the prep work in their shop under
their guidance.

Also, $7k seems high for a 152. I bet you can get $5k if you shop it
around.

Other concerns with doing the job yourself:
1. Stripping and prepping the aircraft - what will you do with the
waste? Airports and the EPA are serious about this stuff.

2. Do you have an HVLP gun with breathing rig? Imron can kill you if
you don't have a good O2 supply. Most setups go for about $1k.

3. Do you have a paint booth/clean room for the painting? How will
you keep bugs/dirt off of the paint while drying? If not - how will
you keep overspray off of the rest of the airport? This is a non
trivial concern. You definitely do NOT want to ruin a $20k paintjob
on the 421 in the hangar next to yours!

-Nathan

[Blanche]

$7K isn't unreasonable for a shop paint job. Remember, the paint is
a small fraction of the cost. Painting is labor-intensive, and you're
paying for knowledge of knowing what to do.

So? What is your profession, how long did it take to train, how
long to be reasonably proficient, and how much are you worth?

As the offspring of two capitalists (sales, both mom and dad), I
understand and appreciate the value of quality work. And I have
no problem with a reasonable profit. Now, when I get ripped off
then I get annoyed and deal with it in an appropriate (non-physical)
manner. Personally, I consider my lawyer my most dangerous weapon.

And when the estimate is so high to be obscene, then I go elsewhere.

[MRQB]

I have found a lot of profiteering gluttons in aviation industry about 79%
of people in the industry are so "money hungry" they price themselves in to
the poor house with extreme prices, substandard products, Laziness, Poor
workmanship, and Equipment then complain that so and so is making money and
wonder why they are not. The truth is the so and so person is a better
businessman and works off of volume rather than getting the most money he
can out of one customer once.

Shop 1 sells an item for $900.95 ea this shop sells 5 units a week Items
cost is $850.00 Total profit of $254.75
Shop 2 sells the same item for $888.95 ea & has better service this shop
sell 7 units a week Items cost is $850.00 Total profit of $272.65

Above is how Wal-Mart dose it and what if the wholesale price break is at 8
units and shop 2 gets a 10% price break from supply house for buying in bulk
humm they make more money or may pass the discount to the customer. As for
labor idd rather give my money to a place that is fairly priced shop that
has all the proper tools and keeps misc parts nuts bolts ect in stock and
not inflate the charge of shop materials & hard ware the rip off places that
charge you $2.00 for a $0.25 Nut that cost them $0.07. but most of all if a
business is not punctual they will not get my business.

I am going to maybe join a aircraft club a lot of older folks in the club
that are A&P's, IA's, Instructors and average folks that are trying to make
flying enjoyable and affordable I think the club's yearly dues should be
more for what they offer and what is it they offer idd say. "connection's
and trustworthy people" and a great learning environment.

As in every thing do your due diligence and buyer be ware the most expensive
place is not always the best place to do business and these people that
think their time is worth XXX for XXX reasons mostly just bull and watch out
for the drug dealer tactics the first ones free then they stick their hand
in your wallet and got for your bank account.

MRQB
PP-ASEL


"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> $7K isn't unreasonable for a shop paint job. Remember, the paint is
> a small fraction of the cost. Painting is labor-intensive, and you're
> paying for knowledge of knowing what to do.
>
> So? What is your profession, how long did it take to train, how
> long to be reasonably proficient, and how much are you worth?
>
> As the offspring of two capitalists (sales, both mom and dad), I
> understand and appreciate the value of quality work. And I have
> no problem with a reasonable profit. Now, when I get ripped off
> then I get annoyed and deal with it in an appropriate (non-physical)
> manner. Personally, I consider my lawyer my most dangerous weapon.
>
> And when the estimate is so high to be obscene, then I go elsewhere.
>
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "MRQB"
> wrote:

> I have found a lot of profiteering gluttons in aviation industry

and a lot of cheapskates.

--
Bob Noel

[Dan Luke]

> Is there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say,
> closer to half that??

http://www.menaaircraftpainting.com/ painted the local club's Cessnas
for about $3,800 each. The results were acceptable, though they took
longer than promised.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

[Mark Astley]

Paul,

If the existing paint isn't too bad you can get a "scratch and sniff" (aka
sand and paint) job for substantially less than a regular strip and paint.
Not all shops will do this, you'll need to make a few calls. Also, you get
more or less what you pay for, a sand and paint is only as good as the
underlying surface condition. If your existing paint is starting to flake,
then your new paint will probably flake off as well (because it's riding on
the existing paint). Best of luck,

mark

"Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
> justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
> there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
> half that??

[Chris Kennedy]

Mark Astley wrote:

> If the existing paint isn't too bad you can get a "scratch and sniff" (aka
> sand and paint) job for substantially less than a regular strip and paint.
> Not all shops will do this, you'll need to make a few calls.

Not only that, but not all airframes are going to be happy with extra
paint. The stabilator on my PA24 wouldn't balance after the Vne mod was
installed because there was too much paint, and rumor has it that it can
be an issue with some Bonanzas as well.

Then there's the 172 we picked up from the paint shop a few weeks back
with unpainted control surfaces (or rather, stripped after painted)
because they wouldn't balance properly with _any_ paint on them....

Surprisingly heavy stuff, paint...

[Ron Natalie]

"Paul Folbrecht" > wrote in message ...
> The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
> justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
> there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
> half that??

The owner of my home field used to just go out there with cans of Krylon
and touch up his paint.

I hear he finally gave up and had the plane repainted.

[EDR]

Nothing better than shiny aluminum!
Reduces weight, too!

[G.R. Patterson III]

Chris Kennedy wrote:
>
> Surprisingly heavy stuff, paint...

During WWII, they put a standard Navy paint job on a captured Japanese Zero and
couldn't get it off the ground.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[MikeM]

EDR wrote:

> Nothing better than shiny aluminum!

Except keeping it shiny!

[Paul Folbrecht]

Thanks for all the replies. What I did have in mind was doing some of
the work myself but it seems that there's a lot of effort & equipment
involved in that. Well, not the stripping. I may do that. I am going
to ask the local shop (Waterdown) how much $$ back that would get me.
Either on my own or in their shop.

The thing is, the paint isn't *that* bad. It was done in '89 and seems
to have been a decent job. But, there are a lot of scratches, and dings
(deeper than the paint), and stains. I'm quite aware that a $7K paint
job isn't going to add nearly $7K to the plane's value.

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
> The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
> justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
> there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
> half that??

[Paul Folbrecht]

When was that? Today they quoted me $5000 for a 152.

Dan Luke wrote:

>>Is there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say,
>>closer to half that??
>
>
> http://www.menaaircraftpainting.com/ painted the local club's Cessnas
> for about $3,800 each. The results were acceptable, though they took
> longer than promised.

[Dan Luke]

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote:
> When was that? Today they quoted me $5000 for a 152.

Two years ago, a 3-plane deal. Two 172s and a 152.

[Nathan Young]

Paul,

If cost is the driving factor - shop the job around. Try Woodlake
Aircraft Refinishing in Sandwich, IL (private field). Ask for Russ
Ellis. 815.786.2538 He quoted me about 33% less than RYV for touchup
work on my Cherokee. He is quite busy however.

-Nathan


On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 01:17:05 GMT, Paul Folbrecht
> wrote:

>Thanks for all the replies. What I did have in mind was doing some of
>the work myself but it seems that there's a lot of effort & equipment
>involved in that. Well, not the stripping. I may do that. I am going
>to ask the local shop (Waterdown) how much $$ back that would get me.
>Either on my own or in their shop.
>
>The thing is, the paint isn't *that* bad. It was done in '89 and seems
>to have been a decent job. But, there are a lot of scratches, and dings
>(deeper than the paint), and stains. I'm quite aware that a $7K paint
>job isn't going to add nearly $7K to the plane's value.
>
>Paul Folbrecht wrote:
>> The paint shop nearest me wants $7K to do a 152 (2 colors). I can't
>> justify that for a $20K bird; the current paint isn't that bad. Is
>> there any way at all to get a real paint job done for, say, closer to
>> half that??

[David Johnson]

Stripping an airplane is more work than you think. I did mine, and it
took
the best part of a year to get everything done (including etching and
alodining)- working on weekends. Saved me about $1000 on the paint
job. Would I do it again? No way. Of course, no doubt the second time
would go much quicker.

I looked into using the facilities of the Aircraft Paint & Prep Booth
in
Corona, CA. They rent them out to those who want to do it themselves.
After thinking it over, I concluded that all the time and expense of
staying there to do the job wasn't worth it. It may have been
different if I had lived nearby.

In the end I paid a shop to do the painting. IIRC it was about $4500
for
a ready-to-paint Cessna 182. They did a good job, and the paint has
held up well (this was about 6 years ago).

David Johnson