Equipment List Required Documentation

[O. Sami Saydjari]

In the documentation set that I received with my aircraft (PA28R-201T),
I found an "Eqipment List" that does not seem to have been kept up to
date. I also have a document with the original equipment list that came
with the aircraft when it was born. My latest weight and balance also
has equipment information on it.

Is there a definitive place where a definitive list is supposed to be
kept. Is it part of the required documentation that an aircarft is
required to have with it? Is the list supposed to include serial
numbers along with model numbers?

-Sami
N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III

[G.R. Patterson III]

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:
>
> Is there a definitive place where a definitive list is supposed to be
> kept.

No. The manufacturer will ship the aircraft with a list of installed equipment. From
that point on, the usual paperwork is simply that a logbook entry is made and the W&B
adjusted when any equipment is removed or installed. Some people do make up and
maintain such a list, but this is not usually done for privately owned aircraft.

> Is the list supposed to include serial
> numbers along with model numbers?

The logbook entry should have model and serial numbers for any added equipment. The
original equipment list for my aircraft does not contain serial numbers of anything
other than major components, such as the engine.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[Jim Weir]

Back in the Old Days (pre-PC) keeping an equipment list up to date was a royal
pain in the labonza. Usually, the mechanic doing the installation would do a
scratchpaper add-subtract-divide calculation and then enter this information
into the logbook as a "new weight = XXXX new CG = yyyy" and let it go at that.

Mechanics are not renowned for their mathematical aptitude. It is every bit as
likely that somewhere along the line the old equipment got added twice and the
new stuff was subtracted once, or some other permutation of wrongness.

Given a program like Excel, it is really rather trivial (trivial = a full day
plus a sixpack) to do a spreadsheet that STARTS with the original factory list,
making sure that the weight and CG match the original calculations, and then two
other subgroups: everything that was ADDED, and everything that was REMOVED.
Don't try to shortcut the system by noting that a Kinko Loudenboomer MK-XII was
installed in 1985 and removed in 1990 and thus a wash. Put it both in the ADDED
and REMOVED sections, noting the dates of both transactions. The date is
important so that anybody trying to validate your data can see that you really
combed the logbooks to note every instance of a change of any sort.

Yeah, I do inexpensive owner assisted annuals, but my owner requirements for
paperwork are a bitch. I will NOT sign one off until the aforementioned
equipment list summation is done and kept up to date.

Jav, can you confirm this?

If I get a half-dozen or so requests here, I'll post a sample W&B spreadsheet
for the company 182 on the website. Feel free to download it and use it for
your own aircraft

Jim



"O. Sami Saydjari" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->In the documentation set that I received with my aircraft (PA28R-201T),
->I found an "Eqipment List" that does not seem to have been kept up to
->date. I also have a document with the original equipment list that came
->with the aircraft when it was born. My latest weight and balance also
->has equipment information on it.
->
->Is there a definitive place where a definitive list is supposed to be
->kept. Is it part of the required documentation that an aircarft is
->required to have with it? Is the list supposed to include serial
->numbers along with model numbers?
->
->-Sami
->N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Jim Weir > wrote:
>Given a program like Excel, it is really rather trivial (trivial = a full day
>plus a sixpack) to do a spreadsheet that STARTS with the original factory list,
>making sure that the weight and CG match the original calculations, and then two

That seems like a lot of work when you're starting with a number that was
not an actual weighing at the factory.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Newps]

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:FMygc.20803$0b4.25908@attbi_s51...
> In article >,
> Jim Weir > wrote:
> >Given a program like Excel, it is really rather trivial (trivial = a full
day
> >plus a sixpack) to do a spreadsheet that STARTS with the original factory
list,
> >making sure that the weight and CG match the original calculations, and
then two
>
> That seems like a lot of work when you're starting with a number that was
> not an actual weighing at the factory.

In the 60's Cessnas were weighed at the factory. I have the original Cessna
documents that show that. However it would still be easier to just weigh
the plane than figure all the changes thru the years. I have my equipment
list on a spreadsheet, very easy to add or subtract something and print a
new one.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Newps wrote:
>
> In the 60's Cessnas were weighed at the factory. I have the original Cessna
> documents that show that. However it would still be easier to just weigh
> the plane than figure all the changes thru the years.

In addition to the fact that reweighing is easier, if the plane is that old, it's
likely to have been repainted. If it's been repainted, it really should be weighed.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[Otis Winslow]

Weigh the airplane. I've gone through all the dance with added and removed
equipment starting with the factory numbers and rolling it all forward. It
never
matches the actual.


"O. Sami Saydjari" > wrote in message
...
> In the documentation set that I received with my aircraft (PA28R-201T),
> I found an "Eqipment List" that does not seem to have been kept up to
> date. I also have a document with the original equipment list that came
> with the aircraft when it was born. My latest weight and balance also
> has equipment information on it.
>
> Is there a definitive place where a definitive list is supposed to be
> kept. Is it part of the required documentation that an aircarft is
> required to have with it? Is the list supposed to include serial
> numbers along with model numbers?
>
> -Sami
> N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Gene Kearns wrote:
>
> While this is true regarding matters solely of weight and balance
> concerns, a real equipment list with model and serial numbers is very
> useful to the IA in checking AD compliance and may be of some help in
> a insurance loss filing.

While this is true, it doesn't change the fact that such a list is *not* required.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[kage]

That depends. On the newer, about 1978, airplanes the POH and FAA approved
aircraft flight manual became more standardized. It included the weight and
balance and equipment list. This is an FAA approved document and is REQUIRED
in the airplane during flight. The manufacturers send revisions that are to
be included and ANY reputable maintenance facility would also require the
equipment list be current to sign off an annual.

I am sure there are plenty of dirt ball mechanics that would sign off
without, and plenty of cheapskate pilots who could care less.

Karl

j
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Gene Kearns wrote:
> >
> > While this is true regarding matters solely of weight and balance
> > concerns, a real equipment list with model and serial numbers is very
> > useful to the IA in checking AD compliance and may be of some help in
> > a insurance loss filing.
>
> While this is true, it doesn't change the fact that such a list is *not*
required.
>
> George Patterson
> This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band
to
> play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come
home
> a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

[G.R. Patterson III]

kage wrote:
>
> That depends. On the newer, about 1978, airplanes the POH and FAA approved
> aircraft flight manual became more standardized. It included the weight and
> balance and equipment list. This is an FAA approved document and is REQUIRED
> in the airplane during flight.

I have a 1995 Maule. There is a list of all of the equipment that was available for
the aircraft. Just like there was a list for my 1969 Cessna 150 of all available
equipment. The equipment my Maule had installed when it left the factory is checked
off on that list. Equipment added later is not checked off on that list, even for
those items added *by the factory* at a later time.

As I said, there is *no requirement* for any current equipment list, at least for
small planes. Logbook entries for additions are the way nearly everyone does it,
including Maule Air.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".