Garmin 330

[PaulaJay1]

Just got the Garmin 330 Mode S transponder installed in my Archer. The traffic
display on the 430 is great. My question is "What does the mode S do for the
controller that the Mode C doesn't?"
Chuck

[BTIZ]

as I understand it.. a full ModeS system would allow you to receive and
acknowledge ATC clearances and weather information without a radio call..
just for starters.. but I don't think it is all online yet.

It allows digital data transmission to and from the aircraft without tying
up the radio.

BT

"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
...
> Just got the Garmin 330 Mode S transponder installed in my Archer. The
traffic
> display on the 430 is great. My question is "What does the mode S do for
the
> controller that the Mode C doesn't?"
> Chuck

[O. Sami Saydjari]

I believe it also provides the controller with your tail number
automatically. -Sami

PaulaJay1 wrote:

> Just got the Garmin 330 Mode S transponder installed in my Archer. The traffic
> display on the 430 is great. My question is "What does the mode S do for the
> controller that the Mode C doesn't?"
> Chuck

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:42:51 -0500, "O. Sami Saydjari"
> wrote:

>I believe it also provides the controller with your tail number
>automatically. -Sami

Yup. If you look at the Fed's registration database:

N2057M is Assigned

Assigned/Registered Aircraft

Aircraft Description

Serial Number 28R-7803103 Type Registration
Corporation
Manufacturer Name PIPER Certificate Issue Date 02/06/2004
Model PA-28R-201T Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50323757
MFR Year 1977 Fractional Owner NO

The mode S code is hard-wired into your transponder and tells big
brother who you are.

They also have a provision for pilot-programmable "flight" number.

Other biggie is for TCAS resolution advisory capability, the xpdr's
talk to each other to ensure a compatible resolution (as in plane A
climb, plane B descend).

TC

[[email protected]]

At this point, it doesn't do anything more than mode C.

The assigned mode S code is currently not being programmed into the
transponder, and the controller still doesn't get your tail number
until you give it to him.

Eventually...

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 21:42:51 -0500, "O. Sami Saydjari"
> wrote:

>I believe it also provides the controller with your tail number
>automatically. -Sami
>
>PaulaJay1 wrote:
>
>> Just got the Garmin 330 Mode S transponder installed in my Archer. The traffic
>> display on the 430 is great. My question is "What does the mode S do for the
>> controller that the Mode C doesn't?"
>> Chuck
>

[Peter R.]

PaulaJay1 ) wrote:

> Just got the Garmin 330 Mode S transponder installed in my Archer. The
> traffic display on the 430 is great. My question is "What does the mode
> S do for the controller that the Mode C doesn't?"

I am considering upgrading to the G330 transponder with an interface into
the G430. Do you have the audible traffic alerts feature that calls out a
potential traffic alert over the intercom? If so, what is that like
(especially around congested airports)?

--
Peter

[Thomas Borchert]

Peter,

> Do you have the audible traffic alerts feature that calls out a
> potential traffic alert over the intercom? If so, what is that like
> (especially around congested airports)?
>

Yep. Best if you download the free 330 manual from Garmin, it's all in
there. You have a choice between male and female voices and a beep.
Annunciations include "Traffic", "Traffic nearby" or some such,
"Traffic (not) available" and "Leaving altitude" if you have set an
altitude alert on the 330. I found it quite useful in the Phoenix area.
Only once did the "traffic not available" collide with the tower's
landing clearance.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Javier Henderson]

writes:

> At this point, it doesn't do anything more than mode C.
>
> The assigned mode S code is currently not being programmed into the
> transponder, and the controller still doesn't get your tail number
> until you give it to him.

Where did you get that? Programming the FAA assigned mode S code was
part of my installation, and I'm told part of every GTX330 installation
at the shop I went (Avionics West).

-jav

[Javier Henderson]

Peter R. > writes:

> I am considering upgrading to the G330 transponder with an interface into
> the G430. Do you have the audible traffic alerts feature that calls out a
> potential traffic alert over the intercom? If so, what is that like
> (especially around congested airports)?

You do get traffic alerts. I fly in the San Francisco Bay area and
relatively frequently in Los Angeles. You could call those areas
busy airspace... so far, I've not had problems with the transponder
stepping on controllers.

You have a choice of traffic alerts in male and female voices. The
installation shop configured my GTX330 to use the female voice, I've
not felt compelled to change it, mostly because most controller voices
are male and so it's easy to distinguish between a controller and the
transponder. The female voice has a british accent, I don't know about
the male voice.

-jav

[Peter R.]

Javier Henderson ) wrote:

> You have a choice of traffic alerts in male and female voices. The
> installation shop configured my GTX330 to use the female voice, I've
> not felt compelled to change it, mostly because most controller voices
> are male and so it's easy to distinguish between a controller and the
> transponder. The female voice has a british accent, I don't know about
> the male voice.

That's great! Thanks. :)

--
Peter

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> You have a choice of traffic alerts in male and female voices. The
> installation shop configured my GTX330 to use the female voice, I've
> not felt compelled to change it, mostly because most controller voices
> are male and so it's easy to distinguish between a controller and the
> transponder. The female voice has a british accent, I don't know about
> the male voice.

It's a Jamaican accent, mon. "Hell, mon, pull up!!"

[PaulaJay1]

There is good news and bad news. You do get the audio and the traffic incator
on the 430 truns yellow when the traffic gets close. I had a plane about 500
feet below me coming from about 8 o'clock. In the Archer it would not have
seen him(I did a 45 deg turn to the left and there he was!). Thgat is the good
news and it really is good.

Now it only works when you have radar coverage ( and I don't think all radars
give you the return info). The traffic info comes from ground radar and not
directly from the target plane. So, coming into many airports, you do not see
the low level traffic. That is, you may still be in radar coverage but the
lower target plane may not. Then tere is always the no transponder plane that
will not be displayed. You still have to keep your eyes open.

That said, it's a great piece of equipment.

Chuck

[Dan Thompson]

I got a 330 recently, and for the heck of it asked one of the tower
controllers if it showed him anything extra, like my N number. He said no,
that's not set up yet. The TIS traffic feature is incredible.

"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> writes:
>
> > At this point, it doesn't do anything more than mode C.
> >
> > The assigned mode S code is currently not being programmed into the
> > transponder, and the controller still doesn't get your tail number
> > until you give it to him.
>
> Where did you get that? Programming the FAA assigned mode S code was
> part of my installation, and I'm told part of every GTX330 installation
> at the shop I went (Avionics West).
>
> -jav

[Dan Thompson]

Every once in a while, right after take off I get a traffic alert at my
exact location and altitude, that I assume is my own plane. I think the
system gets a little confused as to what is what. Have you experienced
that?

"PaulaJay1" > wrote in message
...
> There is good news and bad news. You do get the audio and the traffic
incator
> on the 430 truns yellow when the traffic gets close. I had a plane about
500
> feet below me coming from about 8 o'clock. In the Archer it would not
have
> seen him(I did a 45 deg turn to the left and there he was!). Thgat is the
good
> news and it really is good.
>
> Now it only works when you have radar coverage ( and I don't think all
radars
> give you the return info). The traffic info comes from ground radar and
not
> directly from the target plane. So, coming into many airports, you do
not see
> the low level traffic. That is, you may still be in radar coverage but
the
> lower target plane may not. Then tere is always the no transponder plane
that
> will not be displayed. You still have to keep your eyes open.
>
> That said, it's a great piece of equipment.
>
> Chuck

[Javier Henderson]

"Dan Thompson" > writes:

> Every once in a while, right after take off I get a traffic alert at my
> exact location and altitude, that I assume is my own plane. I think the
> system gets a little confused as to what is what. Have you experienced
> that?

Yes, if you make any drastic heading and/or altitude changes, you will
sometimes get a spurious alert.

-jav

[Thomas Borchert]

Tom,

> It's a Jamaican accent, mon. "Hell, mon, pull up!!"
>

Reminds me of those two cockpit voice recordings shortly before the
crash. One from a Mexican airline:

Background: "Pull up, pull up!"
Pilot: "Shut up, Gringo!"

The other from a Korean:

Background: "Pull up, pull up!"
Pilot (in Korean): "What does "Pull up" mean?"

Not true, of course.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Viperdoc]

I have a 330 installed in my Extra 300, and it frequently gives false alerts
while flying acro. The first few times it really got my attention when I got
a traffic alert just as I pulled vertical or started a roll!

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:08:06 GMT, "Dan Thompson" >
wrote:

>I got a 330 recently, and for the heck of it asked one of the tower
>controllers if it showed him anything extra, like my N number. He said no,
>that's not set up yet. The TIS traffic feature is incredible.

I'm sitting about 75 feet away from two Mode S xpdrs, and they were
both "programmed" to the proper ID number when installed.

My understanding is that the ground-based equipment is lacking what it
takes to interpret and display this info.

TC

[Thomas Borchert]

Viperdoc,

> I have a 330 installed in my Extra 300, and it frequently gives false alerts
> while flying acro.
>

It's not the 330, it's the ground radar.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[[email protected]]

I got that from the avionics shop that installed my 330. They have
written instruction to NOT program the assigned code, but instead
program the tail number into the 330. (I saw the instructions).

On 20 Apr 2004 08:48:53 -0700, Javier Henderson >
wrote:

writes:
>
>> At this point, it doesn't do anything more than mode C.
>>
>> The assigned mode S code is currently not being programmed into the
>> transponder, and the controller still doesn't get your tail number
>> until you give it to him.
>
>Where did you get that? Programming the FAA assigned mode S code was
>part of my installation, and I'm told part of every GTX330 installation
>at the shop I went (Avionics West).
>
>-jav

[jetflow]

I want to massage and display TIS-B on my own EFIS but garmin refuses to release
details about comm. protocol and data format. Does anyboy know what
exactly is coming out of 330 ? RS-232/NMEA or encrypted chinese ? Did
anybody see it ?

[Dave]

"Dan Thompson" > wrote in message >...
> Every once in a while, right after take off I get a traffic alert at my
> exact location and altitude, that I assume is my own plane. I think the
> system gets a little confused as to what is what. Have you experienced
> that?
>

this is a known issue, and as others have said, it's happening on the
ground - not on the 330.

[John Harper]

I have another problem with the 330 which has shown up recently.
The "oh my god there's someone at my altitude right HERE" alert
is something that you get used to, well kind of anyway, though
it's best not to explain what's going on to passengers.

Recently mine has started telling me about a phantom airplane
about two miles out, generally at around 9 or 3 o'clock, and 1500 feet
higher than me. This has happened a couple of times, both in places
where the radar coverage is probably not great - once near
Chiriaco Summit near PSP, the other time flying up the Marin
coast north of SFO. The first time I took it seriously, since I
was planning to climb in the same direction, but the target
moved around in an improbable way and then suddenly disappeared.
(I did see a big flock of geese, but although they may have
been squawking it probably wasn't Mode C...). Much the same happened the
second time. Of course it COULD have been real traffic that I
just never managed to see.

Anyone else see anything like this?

John

"Dave" > wrote in message
om...
> "Dan Thompson" > wrote in message
>...
> > Every once in a while, right after take off I get a traffic alert at my
> > exact location and altitude, that I assume is my own plane. I think the
> > system gets a little confused as to what is what. Have you experienced
> > that?
> >
>
> this is a known issue, and as others have said, it's happening on the
> ground - not on the 330.

[kage]

Even the most expensive TCAS II systems with the latest software sometimes
have "ghost" images. There is still some work to be done in the software.

Karl

"John Harper" > wrote in message
news:1083000677.825749@sj-nntpcache-3...
> I have another problem with the 330 which has shown up recently.
> The "oh my god there's someone at my altitude right HERE" alert

[WinstonCup]

>Subject: Re: Garmin 330
>From: "John Harper"

wrote: ">
>I have another problem with the 330 which has shown up recently.
>The "oh my god there's someone at my altitude right HERE" alert
>is something that you get used to, well kind of anyway, though
>it's best not to explain what's going on to passengers.
>

Do you have DME? Sometimes (at least with the 327) if the Supression Pin is
connected, the transponder interrogations will get "painted" with the DME and
cause irratic readings...

FWIW

[John Harper]

No, no DME (got taken out when the first Garmin went in). Thanks
for the idea though.

John


"WinstonCup" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Garmin 330
> >From: "John Harper"
>
> wrote: ">
> >I have another problem with the 330 which has shown up recently.
> >The "oh my god there's someone at my altitude right HERE" alert
> >is something that you get used to, well kind of anyway, though
> >it's best not to explain what's going on to passengers.
> >
>
> Do you have DME? Sometimes (at least with the 327) if the Supression Pin
is
> connected, the transponder interrogations will get "painted" with the DME
and
> cause irratic readings...
>
> FWIW