Vref vs NAAA evaluator

[GE]

I'm a new pilot looking for my first bird. I'm mostly looking at TAP,
Controller, and ASO. Whenever I find a plane that meets my needs, I am
finding a huge disparity in the values returned by AOPA's Vref and TAP's
NAAA evaluator. I have read in this newsgroup that Vref runs about 10% high,
but I'm finding a much greater difference than that. Any advice for someone
who is new to the game? Are there other places to evaluate aircraft online?

[O. Sami Saydjari]

NAAA uses evaluations based on actual recent transactions, as I
understand it. When I was looking (6 short months ago), I concluded
that NAAA was based on more accurate data. When you get around to
actually making an offer on an aircraft, I suggest hiring a NAAA
appraiser to actually do an appraisal. Their reports can come in handy
as a bargaining tool.

-Sami
N2057M, Piper Turbo Arrow III

GE wrote:

> I'm a new pilot looking for my first bird. I'm mostly looking at TAP,
> Controller, and ASO. Whenever I find a plane that meets my needs, I am
> finding a huge disparity in the values returned by AOPA's Vref and TAP's
> NAAA evaluator. I have read in this newsgroup that Vref runs about 10% high,
> but I'm finding a much greater difference than that. Any advice for someone
> who is new to the game? Are there other places to evaluate aircraft online?
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

GE wrote:
>
> Whenever I find a plane that meets my needs, I am
> finding a huge disparity in the values returned by AOPA's Vref and TAP's
> NAAA evaluator.

I found TAP's evaluator to be pretty accurate when you pay close attention to TAP's
definition of the grading system. Many people report "paint 8" when it would more
accurately be "paint 3", for example. My experience with it is very limited, however,
as I was only checking out Maules.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
GE > wrote:
>I'm a new pilot looking for my first bird. I'm mostly looking at TAP,
>Controller, and ASO. Whenever I find a plane that meets my needs, I am
>finding a huge disparity in the values returned by AOPA's Vref and TAP's
>NAAA evaluator. I have read in this newsgroup that Vref runs about 10% high,

I used both, I thought NAAA was better (more accurate, and more "stable"
across a range of models and options). Ultimately I think I was the
weakest link in the automated appraisal process. I was careful to add
in options I recognized and valued, but if I didn't know what it was or
what it was good for (eg aftermarket sun visors or fuel caps or speed
mods or whatever) I just ignored it. I'm sure the owner who paid for
those $400 sun visors didn't ignore them!

Plus in the end the engine time valuation was the weakest link on the
seller side. Many planes were priced without regard to run out engines.
Not many were priced without regard to near-0 time engines (since the
owner had just paid the bill!).

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Dave Butler]

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
> NAAA uses evaluations based on actual recent transactions, as I
> understand it. When I was looking (6 short months ago), I concluded
> that NAAA was based on more accurate data. When you get around to
> actually making an offer on an aircraft, I suggest hiring a NAAA
> appraiser to actually do an appraisal. Their reports can come in handy
> as a bargaining tool.

Less expensive than a NAAA evaluation is an email evaluation from
http://aeroprice.com. You describe the features and condition of the airplane in
detail, following their detailed instructions, and they email you an evaluation.
It's only in the neighborhood of $20. It shows the rationale for the evaluation.
It could be used as a bargaining tool.

If you're looking at several examples of the same type, you can get their
evaluation software for around $50 that you can use on as many airplanes as you
like. They claim the prices are good for 3 months.

It's worked for me. I've used both kinds of aeroprice evaluations to help me buy
two aircraft.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

[PaulH]

I've also used Aeroprice PC software to purchase my Arrow. It was
very useful. It tended to understate price, I found - i.e. if I
offered their suggested price, I usually lost the deal but that's OK
since people often pay too much for their planes.

The other thing that was handy about it is that you can create your
"ideal" aircraft, then add and subtract items to see how much adding
that 3 blade prop really adds to the value. It's a little
discouraging to learn that you can usually get back only about half of
what you put in.