Inside the Cowling Fire / Heat Detector?

[George Sconyers]

Does anyone know of detector available for small aircraft (not transport
aircraft / Part 135, 121) that can be installed in the cowling(s) to detect
the presence of some condition (excessive heat, IR, etc.) that would lead to
an in-flight fire? Examples of those conditions might include a failed
exhaust header gasket, loose exhaust component / fastener, growing hole in
the muffler or an exhaust pipe, or even a cracked cylinder.

A lot of real dangerous things can happen BETWEEN oil changes where they
could be easily spotted and it seems that such a detector could give a pilot
a much better chance of getting an airplane on the ground before a fire got
started by giving them some time to reduce power (which might prevent a fire
altogether) and head for the nearest airport to check things out. It sure
seems it might be several minutes that failures like those above could be
detected, and detected before they begin to catch things in the cowling on
fire around them.

I have done some checking and transport aircraft, some helicopters, and even
larger power boats have systems that detect excessive heat in their engine
compartments. Some discharge halon bottles, and some of those in boats even
shutdown engines (clearly not advisable on single engine aircraft).

Anyone know of an "affordable" and light weight detector for small aircraft
that might monitor the airflow near the bottom of the engine before it exits
the cowling or perform some other monitoring function to detect a condition
that could lead to an in-flight fire?

George

[Michelle P]

George,
While your concern is valid is is probably not likely that you will ever
need that type of system.
I know the ones we have on our jets are extensive and expensive. One
fire/overheat loop can be several thousand dollars.
If not properly installed and supported they break easily. Additionally
the system will have to be certified to be installed on a certified
aircraft. The only small aircraft I know of that has a overheat/fire
system the the military version of the Cessna 337. If you want one a
used O-2 is the way to go.
Michelle

George Sconyers wrote:

>Does anyone know of detector available for small aircraft (not transport
>aircraft / Part 135, 121) that can be installed in the cowling(s) to detect
>the presence of some condition (excessive heat, IR, etc.) that would lead to
>an in-flight fire? Examples of those conditions might include a failed
>exhaust header gasket, loose exhaust component / fastener, growing hole in
>the muffler or an exhaust pipe, or even a cracked cylinder.
>
>A lot of real dangerous things can happen BETWEEN oil changes where they
>could be easily spotted and it seems that such a detector could give a pilot
>a much better chance of getting an airplane on the ground before a fire got
>started by giving them some time to reduce power (which might prevent a fire
>altogether) and head for the nearest airport to check things out. It sure
>seems it might be several minutes that failures like those above could be
>detected, and detected before they begin to catch things in the cowling on
>fire around them.
>
>I have done some checking and transport aircraft, some helicopters, and even
>larger power boats have systems that detect excessive heat in their engine
>compartments. Some discharge halon bottles, and some of those in boats even
>shutdown engines (clearly not advisable on single engine aircraft).
>
>Anyone know of an "affordable" and light weight detector for small aircraft
>that might monitor the airflow near the bottom of the engine before it exits
>the cowling or perform some other monitoring function to detect a condition
>that could lead to an in-flight fire?
>
>George
>
>
>
>

--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

[George Sconyers]

Thanks for the info on the C337 system Michelle.

I have done some work on this problem and was hoping to get some feedback
from the group.

Anyone have any idea what an acceptable price would be to an aircraft owner
for a cowling fire detection / prevention aid described as follows:

Aircraft Cowling Fire Detection / Prevention Aid:

- battery powered temperature sensor / transmitter module for placement in
the cowling.

- battery powered temperature receiver / digital display module for
monitoring in the cockpit.

- very small transmitter in cowling with a remote 400 degree F temperature
sensor that has a short braided wire cord and a 6" thin aluminum rod so it
can be easily positioned in the air stream exiting the cowling towards the
back of the engine somewhere along the bottom of the firewall.

- small receiver in cockpit (like little kitchen timers used for IFR
approach timing) displays cowling air temperature at the sensor and can be
set to alarm (blinks / sounds tones) when pilot selectable temperature is
reached.

- placed in the airplane by the owner, not connected to aircraft power
supply or other wiring, no permanent mounting bracket, just "stuck",
"clamped", or "wire tied" on just like a portable VFR GPS, portable VHF
radio, IFR approach (kitchen) timer, or a CD player not requiring a Form
337.

- sensor / transmitter, receiver / digital display / alarm, 4 AAA batteries,
combined weight less than 1 pound

- change AAA batteries at oil change / annual etc.

Any feedback on functionality or acceptable pricing appreciated.

George


"Michelle P" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> George,
> While your concern is valid is is probably not likely that you will ever
> need that type of system.
> I know the ones we have on our jets are extensive and expensive. One
> fire/overheat loop can be several thousand dollars.
> If not properly installed and supported they break easily. Additionally
> the system will have to be certified to be installed on a certified
> aircraft. The only small aircraft I know of that has a overheat/fire
> system the the military version of the Cessna 337. If you want one a
> used O-2 is the way to go.
> Michelle
>
> George Sconyers wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know of detector available for small aircraft (not transport
> >aircraft / Part 135, 121) that can be installed in the cowling(s) to
detect
> >the presence of some condition (excessive heat, IR, etc.) that would lead
to
> >an in-flight fire? Examples of those conditions might include a failed
> >exhaust header gasket, loose exhaust component / fastener, growing hole
in
> >the muffler or an exhaust pipe, or even a cracked cylinder.
> >
> >A lot of real dangerous things can happen BETWEEN oil changes where they
> >could be easily spotted and it seems that such a detector could give a
pilot
> >a much better chance of getting an airplane on the ground before a fire
got
> >started by giving them some time to reduce power (which might prevent a
fire
> >altogether) and head for the nearest airport to check things out. It
sure
> >seems it might be several minutes that failures like those above could be
> >detected, and detected before they begin to catch things in the cowling
on
> >fire around them.
> >
> >I have done some checking and transport aircraft, some helicopters, and
even
> >larger power boats have systems that detect excessive heat in their
engine
> >compartments. Some discharge halon bottles, and some of those in boats
even
> >shutdown engines (clearly not advisable on single engine aircraft).
> >
> >Anyone know of an "affordable" and light weight detector for small
aircraft
> >that might monitor the airflow near the bottom of the engine before it
exits
> >the cowling or perform some other monitoring function to detect a
condition
> >that could lead to an in-flight fire?
> >
> >George
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P
>
> "Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)
>
> Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic
>
> Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

George Sconyers wrote:
>
> Any feedback on functionality or acceptable pricing appreciated.

The functionality you describe sounds well thought out. I would not buy it.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Kyler Laird]

Michelle P > writes:

>The only small aircraft I know of that has a overheat/fire
>system the the military version of the Cessna 337.

Armtec Industries, Inc.
Edison Electronics Div.
Manchester Municipal Arpt
Manchester, NH 03103

SA1585SO: Reissued 9/24/84.
PA-23-250;
Installation of engine fire detection system.

--kyler

[John]

I did mine at much lower cost. I bought a CHT/EGT monitor that had
provisions for 6 cyls and since I had a 4 cyl engine I had 4 spare
channels to use for other things. I took some type K thermocouple
wire and placed it in the output air from the engine cowl. I set the
temp limit on that channel to above what it read on a hot day in
climb. If I have an engine fire I will be adding additional fuel
and hence more heat to the air flow.

The other 3 channels I used for OAT and avionics temperatures.
John


On Sat, 29 May 2004 21:33:57 GMT, "George Sconyers"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the info on the C337 system Michelle.
>
>I have done some work on this problem and was hoping to get some feedback
>from the group.
>
>Anyone have any idea what an acceptable price would be to an aircraft owner
>for a cowling fire detection / prevention aid described as follows:
>
>Aircraft Cowling Fire Detection / Prevention Aid:
>
>- battery powered temperature sensor / transmitter module for placement in
>the cowling.
>
>- battery powered temperature receiver / digital display module for
>monitoring in the cockpit.
>
>- very small transmitter in cowling with a remote 400 degree F temperature
>sensor that has a short braided wire cord and a 6" thin aluminum rod so it
>can be easily positioned in the air stream exiting the cowling towards the
>back of the engine somewhere along the bottom of the firewall.
>
>- small receiver in cockpit (like little kitchen timers used for IFR
>approach timing) displays cowling air temperature at the sensor and can be
>set to alarm (blinks / sounds tones) when pilot selectable temperature is
>reached.
>
>- placed in the airplane by the owner, not connected to aircraft power
>supply or other wiring, no permanent mounting bracket, just "stuck",
>"clamped", or "wire tied" on just like a portable VFR GPS, portable VHF
>radio, IFR approach (kitchen) timer, or a CD player not requiring a Form
>337.
>
>- sensor / transmitter, receiver / digital display / alarm, 4 AAA batteries,
>combined weight less than 1 pound
>
>- change AAA batteries at oil change / annual etc.
>
>Any feedback on functionality or acceptable pricing appreciated.
>
>George
>
>
>"Michelle P" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>> George,
>> While your concern is valid is is probably not likely that you will ever
>> need that type of system.
>> I know the ones we have on our jets are extensive and expensive. One
>> fire/overheat loop can be several thousand dollars.
>> If not properly installed and supported they break easily. Additionally
>> the system will have to be certified to be installed on a certified
>> aircraft. The only small aircraft I know of that has a overheat/fire
>> system the the military version of the Cessna 337. If you want one a
>> used O-2 is the way to go.
>> Michelle
>>
>> George Sconyers wrote:
>>
>> >Does anyone know of detector available for small aircraft (not transport
>> >aircraft / Part 135, 121) that can be installed in the cowling(s) to
>detect
>> >the presence of some condition (excessive heat, IR, etc.) that would lead
>to
>> >an in-flight fire? Examples of those conditions might include a failed
>> >exhaust header gasket, loose exhaust component / fastener, growing hole
>in
>> >the muffler or an exhaust pipe, or even a cracked cylinder.
>> >
>> >A lot of real dangerous things can happen BETWEEN oil changes where they
>> >could be easily spotted and it seems that such a detector could give a
>pilot
>> >a much better chance of getting an airplane on the ground before a fire
>got
>> >started by giving them some time to reduce power (which might prevent a
>fire
>> >altogether) and head for the nearest airport to check things out. It
>sure
>> >seems it might be several minutes that failures like those above could be
>> >detected, and detected before they begin to catch things in the cowling
>on
>> >fire around them.
>> >
>> >I have done some checking and transport aircraft, some helicopters, and
>even
>> >larger power boats have systems that detect excessive heat in their
>engine
>> >compartments. Some discharge halon bottles, and some of those in boats
>even
>> >shutdown engines (clearly not advisable on single engine aircraft).
>> >
>> >Anyone know of an "affordable" and light weight detector for small
>aircraft
>> >that might monitor the airflow near the bottom of the engine before it
>exits
>> >the cowling or perform some other monitoring function to detect a
>condition
>> >that could lead to an in-flight fire?
>> >
>> >George
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P
>>
>> "Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)
>>
>> Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic
>>
>> Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity
>>
>