buying from an estate

[G.R. Patterson III]

Tony Woolner wrote:
>
> Is it more difficult to buy a plane from an estate rather than an owner?
> There is a broker involved who listed the plane.

As long as there's a broker involved, it may be easier. Owners sometimes have
inflated ideas of the value of an aircraft and refuse to lower the price. If/when
they *do* lower the price, they don't call you back (probably an ego thing). The
inheritors of an estate frequently have a good idea of what the plane is actually
worth and are frequently more willing to bargain, especially if the plane has been
listed for a while. If you made an offer early in the listing, the broker will
certainly call to see if you're still interested if the owners lower the price later.
In addition, most brokers have handled sales before, so the paperwork goes like
clockwork.

On the down side, the broker is getting at least 5% of the price, and the price may
have been adjusted upwards to recoup that expense.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Tony Woolner]

Is it more difficult to buy a plane from an estate rather than an owner?
There is a broker involved who listed the plane.
Thanks,
TonyW.

[OtisWinslow]

Have a lawyer make sure the person signing the bill of sale
has legal authority to do it.



"Tony Woolner" > wrote in message
...
> Is it more difficult to buy a plane from an estate rather than an owner?
> There is a broker involved who listed the plane.
> Thanks,
> TonyW.
>
>

[Pepperoni]

That's what Brokers and Title Insurance are *FOR*.

A lawyer only gives an opinion.

Pepperoni

"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
.. .
> Have a lawyer make sure the person signing the bill of sale
> has legal authority to do it.
>
>
>

[Stu Gotts]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:09:59 GMT, "OtisWinslow"
> wrote:

>Have a lawyer make sure the person signing the bill of sale
>has legal authority to do it.

This comes under the "Ask Me How I Know" category, even though I used
a "broker". A lawyer's interpretation may not be acceptable to the
FAA. You'll need some type of documentation that the person signing
the BOS has the authority to do. A death certificate and some other
specific (I can't recall now) documentation specifying authority is
the only thing the feds will accept. To place your mind at ease call
FAA Registrations and ask. You may also use AOPA's escrow service (if
it's still around).
>
>
>"Tony Woolner" > wrote in message
...
>> Is it more difficult to buy a plane from an estate rather than an owner?
>> There is a broker involved who listed the plane.
>> Thanks,
>> TonyW.
>>
>>
>

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:48:45 -0500, Stu Gotts >
wrote:

> A death certificate and some other
>specific (I can't recall now) documentation specifying authority is
>the only thing the feds will accept. To place your mind at ease call
>FAA Registrations and ask. You may also use AOPA's escrow service (if
>it's still around).

It's my understanding that in general only the legal heir of the item
(if the asset is bequeathed directly in the will - get a notarized
copy of the relevant page) or the executor of the estate has binding
legal authority to sell assets.

If the estate is required by law to do so, make sure that it has gone
through probate court before buying anything from it. Don't recall
offhand whether it can follow down or not, but I would also make sure
that they give you something indemnifying you from any subsequent
claim from the IRS or other tax authority that will be collecting
estate taxes from them incase they don't have enough to pay the taxes.
Last thing you need is an unclean title because the IRS is attempting
to repo the aircraft to satisfy a tax debit.

[TTA Cherokee Driver]

Tony Woolner wrote:

> Is it more difficult to buy a plane from an estate rather than an owner?
> There is a broker involved who listed the plane.
> Thanks,
> TonyW.
>

Besides the good advice you've already received, I will add that an
estate will probably be a motivated seller because the executor probably
wants to get the estate closed out as quickly as possible with the least
amount of hassle. Especially if the executor is not a pilot.

The flip side of that is that the estate will probably not be willing to
do any repairs or upgrades (but having a broker may help with that). If
problems are found in the prebuy, they'd probably rather reduce the
price than do the repairs, which can be a good thing or a bad thing,
depending.

I saw this happen with a house in a neighborhood where I also owned a
house. It took a few years for the appraisals for the rest of the
neighborhood to recover from the fire-sale price thes estate house was
sold for -- but it WAS sold strictly as-is.

[OtisWinslow]

Thank you, Mr Pepperoni for that bit of wisdom. How many
airplanes have you bought and how many of them had gone
thru an estate?

The broker is just handling selling it. The Title company isn't going
to write the title insurance if there's any hickups in the chain of title.
You're
still going to have to pay someone to clear any discrepencies before
they do that.

As Stu points out, the FAA requires certain supporting documentation
to accompany a Bill of Sale in some circumstances. If I'm buying something
for the price of an airplane then having an attorney make sure I'm not
going to run into problems when I go to sell it is a pretty good investment.
If an estate is involved then for several reasons that Stu brought up,
you need a little more diligence.






"Pepperoni" > wrote in message
...
> That's what Brokers and Title Insurance are *FOR*.
>
> A lawyer only gives an opinion.
>
> Pepperoni
>
> "OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Have a lawyer make sure the person signing the bill of sale
> > has legal authority to do it.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Paul Anton]

I bought an airplane from a chap who was in a nursing home. His wife signed
it over to me with a legal power of attorney. The power of attorney was
completely legitimate and I had supporting documents.

The FAA did NOT accept the bill of sale. I finally managed to get a
scribbled signature of a bill of sale and get it registered.

( he was in the final stages of Alzheimers)

Cheers:

Paul

[Andrew C. Ohnstad]

In article >,
says...
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:09:59 GMT, "OtisWinslow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Have a lawyer make sure the person signing the bill of sale
> >has legal authority to do it.
>
> This comes under the "Ask Me How I Know" category, even though I used
> a "broker". A lawyer's interpretation may not be acceptable to the
> FAA. You'll need some type of documentation that the person signing
> the BOS has the authority to do. A death certificate and some other
> specific (I can't recall now) documentation specifying authority is
> the only thing the feds will accept. To place your mind at ease call
> FAA Registrations and ask. You may also use AOPA's escrow service (if
> it's still around).

That "something else" would be a piece of paper called a "letter of
administration." It should be signed (and optionally sealed) by the
court. It should identify, by name, the executor of the will. Get a
copy of this letter, along with a copy of the death certificate, and a
signed bill of sale.

Good Luck,
Andrew