A Cheap and Dirty Transponder Tool

[John P]

A friend had a problem with his transponder. It didn't seat all the way in
the rack and would not connect with the coax(AT150).

I started thinking.....(I know) Does anyone out there know of a way to make
a simple transponder field unit that will transmit
the necessary pulses( 3, I think) at theone gig and change and then a
simple receiver to see if it responded(one shot and led).
Don't need squawk code or altitude..Any ideas....Jim!

This is probably an illegal device but at very low power, hmm?

John Prince Pitts N3DR

[Ray Andraka]

You've already got most of something equivalent built into your transponder.
The reply light in the AT-150 is triggered by the pulses in the reply pulse
train picked off just before they go to the transmit cavity. If the reply
light is blinking without pushing the ident or holding the switch in the test
position, then the transponder is receiving proper interrogations and
generating replies. If ATC doesn't see you but your reply light is blinking,
then either your cavity is shot, the high voltage power supply for the cavity
is broken, or your reply timing is so far off that atc doesn't recognize the
reply. All 3 cases warrant a visit to the avionics shop. On the other hand,
if the reply light is not blinking , then operating the transponder in the test
position may be helpful in diagnosing the problem. The test mode in the
AT-150 injects a stream of pulses into the receiver that mimics pulses
normally recieved. If the test pulses are properly recognized by the pulse
logic, then replies are generated and the reply lamp lights. If the reply
light lights for test mode, then the pulse decode and reply generation logic in
the transponder are probably OK. Using these facts plus being somewhere where
ATC interogations reach your antenna should be enough to determine the health
of the system. YOu can also use one of the transponder monitors or passive
traffic detectors to monitor the reply from the transponder.

Note also that you can't legally remove the transponder and put it back in its
tray without a sign-off. It is specifically called out as a not-allowed owner
maintenance action in the FARs.

That said, a unit that exercises the transponder and monitors it for a reply
could be put together with a small number of parts, however the design time
would not be economical because there would be no market for such a device
seeing that only an avionics shop can legally remove/reinstall the transponder
and those shops already have transponder test sets that do far more. The
transponder replies to a 2 pulse sequence. The third pulse (which is between
the other two), if present, is supposed to suppress the transponder's reply.
Each pulse is 1030MHz (or is it 1090?...I always get the transmit and receive
frequencies mixed up), lasts nominally for 0.8 usec. For a mode C
interrogation, the leading edges of the pulses are 21 usec apart, for mode 3/A,
they are 8 usec apart. A pulse 2 usec after the first pulse will cause the
reply to be suppressed. If you kept the transmit power to a few milliwatts,
while not strictly legal, it would probably not raise anyone's hair. As
stated before though, this unit would tell you little more than what you can
already determine using the reply light and being either at an airport or in
the air where you can recieve ATC interrogations.

A simple interrogator circuit could be built using a 1030MHz oscillator gated
by a 0.8 usec wide pulse that happens every 8 us (mode 3/A). That circuit
could take the place of the ATC interrogations for testing on the ground at an
airport where you don't normally recieve ATC interrogations on the ground. You
could use that in conjuction with the reply light to test the transponder the
way you are intending. A suitable oscillator circuit could be found in the
ARRL handbook. The gate circuit could be done with a 10 bit digital shift
register clocked by a clock with a 0.8 usec period and arranged in a ring
shifting a single '1' through the 10 bits.



John P wrote:

> A friend had a problem with his transponder. It didn't seat all the way in
> the rack and would not connect with the coax(AT150).
>
> I started thinking.....(I know) Does anyone out there know of a way to make
> a simple transponder field unit that will transmit
> the necessary pulses( 3, I think) at theone gig and change and then a
> simple receiver to see if it responded(one shot and led).
> Don't need squawk code or altitude..Any ideas....Jim!
>
> This is probably an illegal device but at very low power, hmm?
>
> John Prince Pitts N3DR

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[John P]

Ray,

Now that's what I wanted to know!!! Thanks for the explanation. I
didn't
think a traffic detector would work in this case. Your right, the ARRL
handbook
would take care of the RF portion and the shiftreg the other part of
the solution. The shift register, lets see, would have to be a one looped
back on itself
(on that bit) and then shifted out, I think. Anyway, that's easy to "fix"
until I get it right.
I needed the "numbers"(.8us).
The only thing that the test switch on the AT150 circuit does not do is
check
for the actual transmission. Right? In my case, with the friend, the
bulb on the AT150 was burned out,
(as it turned out) so the unit appeared dead. I didn't think it actually
sent a string and then checks
the receive functions. The friend called a avionics tech and came out to
check for proper codes, then found the
bad bulb, then the RF connector was not seated. Multiple problems.
Even if I had the circuit I've been talking about, it would not have
solved anything. But, if the antenna
was connected the circuit would have closed the loop on transmissions from
the transponder. It would still
have to be checked for codes and altitude but the interrogation lite would
have been lit.
It would be a fairly simple set of circuits for a simple check of limited
value...... Thanks Again..

John


"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> You've already got most of something equivalent built into your
transponder.
> The reply light in the AT-150 is triggered by the pulses in the reply
pulse
> train picked off just before they go to the transmit cavity. If the reply
> light is blinking without pushing the ident or holding the switch in the
test
> position, then the transponder is receiving proper interrogations and
> generating replies. If ATC doesn't see you but your reply light is
blinking,
> then either your cavity is shot, the high voltage power supply for the
cavity
> is broken, or your reply timing is so far off that atc doesn't recognize
the
> reply. All 3 cases warrant a visit to the avionics shop. On the other
hand,
> if the reply light is not blinking , then operating the transponder in the
test
> position may be helpful in diagnosing the problem. The test mode in the
> AT-150 injects a stream of pulses into the receiver that mimics pulses
> normally recieved. If the test pulses are properly recognized by the
pulse
> logic, then replies are generated and the reply lamp lights. If the reply
> light lights for test mode, then the pulse decode and reply generation
logic in
> the transponder are probably OK. Using these facts plus being somewhere
where
> ATC interogations reach your antenna should be enough to determine the
health
> of the system. YOu can also use one of the transponder monitors or
passive
> traffic detectors to monitor the reply from the transponder.
>
> Note also that you can't legally remove the transponder and put it back in
its
> tray without a sign-off. It is specifically called out as a not-allowed
owner
> maintenance action in the FARs.
>
> That said, a unit that exercises the transponder and monitors it for a
reply
> could be put together with a small number of parts, however the design
time
> would not be economical because there would be no market for such a device
> seeing that only an avionics shop can legally remove/reinstall the
transponder
> and those shops already have transponder test sets that do far more. The
> transponder replies to a 2 pulse sequence. The third pulse (which is
between
> the other two), if present, is supposed to suppress the transponder's
reply.
> Each pulse is 1030MHz (or is it 1090?...I always get the transmit and
receive
> frequencies mixed up), lasts nominally for 0.8 usec. For a mode C
> interrogation, the leading edges of the pulses are 21 usec apart, for mode
3/A,
> they are 8 usec apart. A pulse 2 usec after the first pulse will cause
the
> reply to be suppressed. If you kept the transmit power to a few
milliwatts,
> while not strictly legal, it would probably not raise anyone's hair. As
> stated before though, this unit would tell you little more than what you
can
> already determine using the reply light and being either at an airport or
in
> the air where you can recieve ATC interrogations.
>
> A simple interrogator circuit could be built using a 1030MHz oscillator
gated
> by a 0.8 usec wide pulse that happens every 8 us (mode 3/A). That circuit
> could take the place of the ATC interrogations for testing on the ground
at an
> airport where you don't normally recieve ATC interrogations on the ground.
You
> could use that in conjuction with the reply light to test the transponder
the
> way you are intending. A suitable oscillator circuit could be found in
the
> ARRL handbook. The gate circuit could be done with a 10 bit digital shift
> register clocked by a clock with a 0.8 usec period and arranged in a ring
> shifting a single '1' through the 10 bits.
>
>
>
> John P wrote:
>
> > A friend had a problem with his transponder. It didn't seat all the way
in
> > the rack and would not connect with the coax(AT150).
> >
> > I started thinking.....(I know) Does anyone out there know of a way to
make
> > a simple transponder field unit that will transmit
> > the necessary pulses( 3, I think) at theone gig and change and then a
> > simple receiver to see if it responded(one shot and led).
> > Don't need squawk code or altitude..Any ideas....Jim!
> >
> > This is probably an illegal device but at very low power, hmm?
> >
> > John Prince Pitts N3DR
>
> --
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
> email
> http://www.andraka.com
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -Benjamin Franklin, 1759
>
>

[Ray Andraka]

It doesn't check the actual transmission, nor the receiver RF strip. It injects
a series of pulses into the pulse width/spacing discriminator logic, which in
turn triggers the generation of replies, whcih modulate the cavity. The reply
light circuit is driven by the cavity modulator.

John P wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Now that's what I wanted to know!!! Thanks for the explanation. I
> didn't
> think a traffic detector would work in this case. Your right, the ARRL
> handbook
> would take care of the RF portion and the shiftreg the other part of
> the solution. The shift register, lets see, would have to be a one looped
> back on itself
> (on that bit) and then shifted out, I think. Anyway, that's easy to "fix"
> until I get it right.
> I needed the "numbers"(.8us).
> The only thing that the test switch on the AT150 circuit does not do is
> check
> for the actual transmission. Right? In my case, with the friend, the
> bulb on the AT150 was burned out,
> (as it turned out) so the unit appeared dead. I didn't think it actually
> sent a string and then checks
> the receive functions. The friend called a avionics tech and came out to
> check for proper codes, then found the
> bad bulb, then the RF connector was not seated. Multiple problems.
> Even if I had the circuit I've been talking about, it would not have
> solved anything. But, if the antenna
> was connected the circuit would have closed the loop on transmissions from
> the transponder. It would still
> have to be checked for codes and altitude but the interrogation lite would
> have been lit.
> It would be a fairly simple set of circuits for a simple check of limited
> value...... Thanks Again..
>
> John
>
> "Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You've already got most of something equivalent built into your
> transponder.
> > The reply light in the AT-150 is triggered by the pulses in the reply
> pulse
> > train picked off just before they go to the transmit cavity. If the reply
> > light is blinking without pushing the ident or holding the switch in the
> test
> > position, then the transponder is receiving proper interrogations and
> > generating replies. If ATC doesn't see you but your reply light is
> blinking,
> > then either your cavity is shot, the high voltage power supply for the
> cavity
> > is broken, or your reply timing is so far off that atc doesn't recognize
> the
> > reply. All 3 cases warrant a visit to the avionics shop. On the other
> hand,
> > if the reply light is not blinking , then operating the transponder in the
> test
> > position may be helpful in diagnosing the problem. The test mode in the
> > AT-150 injects a stream of pulses into the receiver that mimics pulses
> > normally recieved. If the test pulses are properly recognized by the
> pulse
> > logic, then replies are generated and the reply lamp lights. If the reply
> > light lights for test mode, then the pulse decode and reply generation
> logic in
> > the transponder are probably OK. Using these facts plus being somewhere
> where
> > ATC interogations reach your antenna should be enough to determine the
> health
> > of the system. YOu can also use one of the transponder monitors or
> passive
> > traffic detectors to monitor the reply from the transponder.
> >
> > Note also that you can't legally remove the transponder and put it back in
> its
> > tray without a sign-off. It is specifically called out as a not-allowed
> owner
> > maintenance action in the FARs.
> >
> > That said, a unit that exercises the transponder and monitors it for a
> reply
> > could be put together with a small number of parts, however the design
> time
> > would not be economical because there would be no market for such a device
> > seeing that only an avionics shop can legally remove/reinstall the
> transponder
> > and those shops already have transponder test sets that do far more. The
> > transponder replies to a 2 pulse sequence. The third pulse (which is
> between
> > the other two), if present, is supposed to suppress the transponder's
> reply.
> > Each pulse is 1030MHz (or is it 1090?...I always get the transmit and
> receive
> > frequencies mixed up), lasts nominally for 0.8 usec. For a mode C
> > interrogation, the leading edges of the pulses are 21 usec apart, for mode
> 3/A,
> > they are 8 usec apart. A pulse 2 usec after the first pulse will cause
> the
> > reply to be suppressed. If you kept the transmit power to a few
> milliwatts,
> > while not strictly legal, it would probably not raise anyone's hair. As
> > stated before though, this unit would tell you little more than what you
> can
> > already determine using the reply light and being either at an airport or
> in
> > the air where you can recieve ATC interrogations.
> >
> > A simple interrogator circuit could be built using a 1030MHz oscillator
> gated
> > by a 0.8 usec wide pulse that happens every 8 us (mode 3/A). That circuit
> > could take the place of the ATC interrogations for testing on the ground
> at an
> > airport where you don't normally recieve ATC interrogations on the ground.
> You
> > could use that in conjuction with the reply light to test the transponder
> the
> > way you are intending. A suitable oscillator circuit could be found in
> the
> > ARRL handbook. The gate circuit could be done with a 10 bit digital shift
> > register clocked by a clock with a 0.8 usec period and arranged in a ring
> > shifting a single '1' through the 10 bits.
> >
> >
> >
> > John P wrote:
> >
> > > A friend had a problem with his transponder. It didn't seat all the way
> in
> > > the rack and would not connect with the coax(AT150).
> > >
> > > I started thinking.....(I know) Does anyone out there know of a way to
> make
> > > a simple transponder field unit that will transmit
> > > the necessary pulses( 3, I think) at theone gig and change and then a
> > > simple receiver to see if it responded(one shot and led).
> > > Don't need squawk code or altitude..Any ideas....Jim!
> > >
> > > This is probably an illegal device but at very low power, hmm?
> > >
> > > John Prince Pitts N3DR
> >
> > --
> > --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> > President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> > 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
> > email
> > http://www.andraka.com
> >
> > "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
> > temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> > -Benjamin Franklin, 1759
> >
> >

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759