Belly Cleaning...?

[zatatime]

Hi,

I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
need any water.

TIA for any responses.

z

[Kyle Boatright]

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
> hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
> supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
> need any water.
>
> TIA for any responses.
>
> z

Get an automotive creeper and a package of a dozen cotton cloths. Next, get
some nitrile gloves to protect your skin. After that, you need a solvent.
I'd recommend either mineral spirits, which is smelly, but gentile on paint,
or one of the solvents auto body shops use as a final wipe-down prior to
painting an auto. You can usually find these solvents at a good auto paint
store. A quart of the stuff lasts a long time...

Then, put on the gloves, dampen a cloth in your chosen solvent, climb on the
creeper, and have at it. Shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes. Oh, and
wear safety glasses. If the solvent doesn't drip into your eye, you're sure
to poke an eye out with an antenna or something.

KB

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:34:02 +0000, zatatime wrote:

> I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm

Stoddard Solvent or Mineral Spirits and a rag.

[Jay Masino]

Kyle Boatright > wrote:
> Get an automotive creeper and a package of a dozen cotton cloths. Next, get
> some nitrile gloves to protect your skin. After that, you need a solvent.
> I'd recommend either mineral spirits, which is smelly, but gentile on paint,
> or one of the solvents auto body shops use as a final wipe-down prior to
> painting an auto. You can usually find these solvents at a good auto paint
> store. A quart of the stuff lasts a long time...

> Then, put on the gloves, dampen a cloth in your chosen solvent, climb on the
> creeper, and have at it. Shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes. Oh, and
> wear safety glasses. If the solvent doesn't drip into your eye, you're sure
> to poke an eye out with an antenna or something.

This is similar what I do, except I often use a large terry cloth towel
that I'm willing to throw out. I wipe down large sections using paper
towels and mineral spirits, then wipe if off with the terry cloth towel.
The entire belly takes about 15 minutes.


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Bob Noel]

In article >, zatatime
> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
> hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
> supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
> need any water.

I've used regular car soap, with turtle wax and/or handcleaner
(that non-abrasive orange stuff) on the particularly greasy
parts.

and waxing the belly occassionaly (every 3 or 5 years) makes
cleaning the belly easier. (It helps that my airplane doesn't
have much blowby).

--
Bob Noel

[Newps]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
>
> Get an automotive creeper and a package of a dozen cotton cloths. Next,
get
> some nitrile gloves to protect your skin. After that, you need a solvent.
> I'd recommend either mineral spirits, which is smelly, but gentile on
paint,
> or one of the solvents auto body shops use as a final wipe-down prior to
> painting an auto. You can usually find these solvents at a good auto
paint
> store. A quart of the stuff lasts a long time...


Bah, do that if you want all that labor. Get the non pumice GoJo and a
paintbrush. Paint it on, let sit for awhile and hose it off.

[MichaelR]

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=348

Expensive, but works well and you don't need water.





"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
> hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
> supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
> need any water.
>
> TIA for any responses.
>
> z

[Michael 182]

For future reference, I installed a M-20 Oil/Air Separator and cut down
belly grime by about 90% (my subjective guess) on my TR-182.

http://www.avweb.com/news/reviews/182522-1.html

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
> hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
> supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
> need any water.
>
> TIA for any responses.
>
> z

[tony roberts]

Turtle Wax bug and tar spray.
Cheap and kills oil dead. Also works greqat on leading edges/struts -
removes all of those flattened bugs very easily.


tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument :)
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Dude]

Isn't that stuff a thick delimolene solution? sorry if I butcherred the
spelling.

There are several citrus degreasers on the market, is this stuff okay to use
on aircraft auto paint?


"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Get an automotive creeper and a package of a dozen cotton cloths. Next,
> get
> > some nitrile gloves to protect your skin. After that, you need a
solvent.
> > I'd recommend either mineral spirits, which is smelly, but gentile on
> paint,
> > or one of the solvents auto body shops use as a final wipe-down prior to
> > painting an auto. You can usually find these solvents at a good auto
> paint
> > store. A quart of the stuff lasts a long time...
>
>
> Bah, do that if you want all that labor. Get the non pumice GoJo and a
> paintbrush. Paint it on, let sit for awhile and hose it off.
>
>

[Thomas Borchert]

Zatatime,

two things:

- Aviation Consumer did thorough testing of various cleaners a while
back. Have a look at their site. Non-aviation stuff (for cars) always
has the danger of harming the aluminum, but they investigated into that

- Once you have it clean, we got great results sealing it with RejeX, a
coating similar to wax, but better, from the same guys that make
CorrosionX. The dirt comes off much easier with RejeX.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Nathan Young]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:34:02 GMT, zatatime
> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
>It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
>hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
>supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
>need any water.

A good quality creeper is a huge help to cleaning the belly.

[OtisWinslow]

I've always used GoJo hand cleaner. Very mild .. won't mess up your
paint or your hands. Smear it on .. let set a while .. wipe it off with a
rag soaked in clear water.




"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
> hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
> supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
> need any water.
>
> TIA for any responses.
>
> z

[Marco Leon]

Can anyone verify that mineral spirits is safe on aluminum?

Marco


"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
>
> "zatatime" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> > It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
> > hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
> > supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
> > need any water.
> >
> > TIA for any responses.
> >
> > z
>
> Get an automotive creeper and a package of a dozen cotton cloths. Next,
get
> some nitrile gloves to protect your skin. After that, you need a solvent.
> I'd recommend either mineral spirits, which is smelly, but gentile on
paint,
> or one of the solvents auto body shops use as a final wipe-down prior to
> painting an auto. You can usually find these solvents at a good auto
paint
> store. A quart of the stuff lasts a long time...
>
> Then, put on the gloves, dampen a cloth in your chosen solvent, climb on
the
> creeper, and have at it. Shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes. Oh, and
> wear safety glasses. If the solvent doesn't drip into your eye, you're
sure
> to poke an eye out with an antenna or something.
>
> KB
>
>



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

[ISLIP]

I used to use a hand cleaner and it worked very well. Lately I've started using
"Scrubbing bubbles" on recommendation by several people. A lot easier to use
and just as effective. Available in supermarjkets everywhere

John

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Ditto the RejeX. It works great. Do the leading edges and keep a spray
bottle of water handy. I used to come back the next day (wife hates to
wait) to clean off the bugs & exhaust but now the job is quick, she even
helps.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.



take off my shoes to reply

[G.R. Patterson III]

Marco Leon wrote:
>
> Can anyone verify that mineral spirits is safe on aluminum?

Yes. It's used constantly in parts washers and for cleaning engines. The shop at
Kupper used to buy it in 55 gallon drums.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Mark]

"Newps" > wrote in message >...
> Bah, do that if you want all that labor. Get the non pumice GoJo and a
> paintbrush. Paint it on, let sit for awhile and hose it off.

He did say no water if possible ;)

[Matt Whiting]

Bob Noel wrote:

> In article >, zatatime
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
>>It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
>>hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
>>supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
>>need any water.
>
>
> I've used regular car soap, with turtle wax and/or handcleaner
> (that non-abrasive orange stuff) on the particularly greasy
> parts.

I found that Dawn dish detergent worked a lot better than the car wash
solutions. It is rougher on the wax than car wash, but it gets off the
grime a lot better.


Matt

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:08:44 -0400, Marco Leon wrote:

> Can anyone verify that mineral spirits is safe on aluminum?

My Cessna's owners manual says to use Stoddard solvent to clean it with,
Stoddard Solvent is Mineral Spirits.

[Russell Kent]

I'm no chemist, but the results of a few minutes Googling lead me to believe
that "Scrubbing Bubbles" is a bad choice. It seems that "Dow bathroom
cleaner with scrubbing bubbles" contains ammonium chlorides and ammonium
chlorides corrode aluminum:

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=
4003007

http://www.intox.org/databank/documents/chemical/ammchl/cie87.htm

Russell Kent

"ISLIP" > wrote in message
...
> I used to use a hand cleaner and it worked very well. Lately I've started
using
> "Scrubbing bubbles" on recommendation by several people. A lot easier to
use
> and just as effective. Available in supermarjkets everywhere
>
> John

[ISLIP]

I won't dispute that but I use it on a fiberglas composite fuselage

John

[Jeff P]

A slight enhancement...put the mineral spirits in a spray bottle and
mist it on the belly. Wipe off later with the cloth of your choice.
This keeps the stuff from running down your arm and pooling in your
arm pits.

[Roger Halstead]

On 22 Jun 2004 10:16:44 -0700, (Jeff P) wrote:

>A slight enhancement...put the mineral spirits in a spray bottle and
>mist it on the belly. Wipe off later with the cloth of your choice.
>This keeps the stuff from running down your arm and pooling in your
>arm pits

..I use Carbon-X mixed 2:1 Water to CVarbon-X in a pint spray bottle.
It removes bugs, and grease. Works great and won't hurt the plane. I
use the same stuff 60:1 for washing the plane.

I don't really like the idea of the mineral spirits.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[zatatime]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 06:49:02 GMT, Roger Halstead
> wrote:

>I don't really like the idea of the mineral spirits.
>
>Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
>(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
>www.rogerhalstead.com


Why not? Environmental issues? You've got me curious.

z

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 06:49:02 +0000, Roger Halstead wrote:

> I don't really like the idea of the mineral spirits.

I would agree that precautions need to be taken, that stuff is nasty if
you read the msds on it. But it didn't seem to affect Cessna and their
suggesting it's usage on planes back in the 70's.

[Hankal]

> I don't really like the idea of the mineral spirits.
>
>I would agree that precautions need to be taken, that stuff is nasty if
>you read the msds on it. But it didn't seem to affect Cessna and their
>suggesting it's usage on planes back in the 70's.

I use Turtle wax. It takes the grease off and if done on a monthly schedule is
not a big job.
Cessna 172M

[Vigo]

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for ideas on how to best clean the belly of my plane.
> It's a Cherokee and is pretty greasy/grimy/dirty underneath. I'm
> hoping to find something I can buy from a non-aviation source (like a
> supermarket or auto parts store), and it would be Great if I didn't
> need any water.
>
> TIA for any responses.
>
> z

Anyone ever just fly inverted through a thunder storm

sorry in advance
vigo

[zatatime]

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:14:11 -0600, "Vigo"
> wrote:

>Anyone ever just fly inverted through a thunder storm
>
>sorry in advance
>vigo


That's funny. A level 4 would probably do the trick!

z

[OSKI 3]

Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.

Bill OParowski
N10SX
N101SX

[EDR]

In article >, OSKI 3
> wrote:

> Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.

DO NOT USE SIMPLE GREEN ON AIRPLANES!!!!
That stuff etches aluminum.

[Dave Butler]

EDR wrote:
> In article >, OSKI 3
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.
>
>
> DO NOT USE SIMPLE GREEN ON AIRPLANES!!!!
> That stuff etches aluminum.

Did you miss the part about "Have a fabric Biplane..."?

[Aaron Coolidge]

zatatime > wrote:
: On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:14:11 -0600, "Vigo"
: > wrote:

:>Anyone ever just fly inverted through a thunder storm
:>
:>sorry in advance
:>vigo


: That's funny. A level 4 would probably do the trick!

: z

Uh, I find that rain takes the paint off while leaving the dirt unaffected.
Like a Massachusetts snowplow - digs out potholes without touching the snow.
--
Aaron Coolidge

[EDR]

In article >, Dave Butler
> wrote:

> >>Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.
> >
> > DO NOT USE SIMPLE GREEN ON AIRPLANES!!!!
> > That stuff etches aluminum.
>
> Did you miss the part about "Have a fabric Biplane..."?

If it is harsh enough to etch Al, what is it doing to the paint and
fabric?

[Dave Stadt]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, OSKI 3
> > wrote:
>
> > Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.
>
> DO NOT USE SIMPLE GREEN ON AIRPLANES!!!!
> That stuff etches aluminum.

Nonsense. Diluted to proper levels it is harmless. On fabric or paint it
has no effect. Used properly it is fine for aircraft use.

[No Spam]

>
> "EDR" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, OSKI 3
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.
>>
>> DO NOT USE SIMPLE GREEN ON AIRPLANES!!!!
>> That stuff etches aluminum.
>
> Nonsense. Diluted to proper levels it is harmless. On fabric or paint it
> has no effect. Used properly it is fine for aircraft use.
>


The problem is it (and just about any other liquid) will leech into the
joints between panels and there it sits and does its chemical thing. Sure,
it's fine on the surface of the aluminum, but that's not where the damage
occurs.

Go ahead and use it properly, but you've been warned...

No Spam

[Dave Stadt]

"No Spam" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> >
> > "EDR" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article >, OSKI 3
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.
> >>
> >> DO NOT USE SIMPLE GREEN ON AIRPLANES!!!!
> >> That stuff etches aluminum.
> >
> > Nonsense. Diluted to proper levels it is harmless. On fabric or paint
it
> > has no effect. Used properly it is fine for aircraft use.
> >
>
>
> The problem is it (and just about any other liquid) will leech into the
> joints between panels and there it sits and does its chemical thing. Sure,
> it's fine on the surface of the aluminum, but that's not where the damage
> occurs.
>
> Go ahead and use it properly, but you've been warned...
>
> No Spam


If you let it leech into the joints of bare aluminum you are not using it
properly. On a properly painted surface there should be no chance of it
leeching into bare aluminum.

[No Spam]

>
> "No Spam" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> "EDR" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In article >, OSKI 3
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Have a fabric Biplane and use Simple Green. Spray it on WIPE it off.
>>>>
>>>> DO NOT USE SIMPLE GREEN ON AIRPLANES!!!!
>>>> That stuff etches aluminum.
>>>
>>> Nonsense. Diluted to proper levels it is harmless. On fabric or paint
> it
>>> has no effect. Used properly it is fine for aircraft use.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The problem is it (and just about any other liquid) will leech into the
>> joints between panels and there it sits and does its chemical thing. Sure,
>> it's fine on the surface of the aluminum, but that's not where the damage
>> occurs.
>>
>> Go ahead and use it properly, but you've been warned...
>>
>> No Spam
>
>
> If you let it leech into the joints of bare aluminum you are not using it
> properly. On a properly painted surface there should be no chance of it
> leeching into bare aluminum.
>
>
>
>
>
It's not a matter of letting it - it will do it. Inspection panels may be
properly painted, but it will get between the surfaces.

Like I said, you've been warned.

No Spam

[Thomas Borchert]

No,

couldn't agree more. The idea of washing an aircraft and being able to
keep fluid from creeping into seams and slits is preposterous.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[hjarrett]

I have been hearing the comments about Simple Green for years and that it
will etch or corrode Aluminum. I'm not saying they are true or not but I
have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.
Everybody "read a report" or "has a friend who knows somebody". Who out
there has actually USED it on aluminum and seen (with their own eyes) the
damage? I DON'T use it on my Taylorcraft cowl (aluminum) because I DON'T
KNOW if it will cause damage, but I have used it on a Concur Porsche, the
fabric parts of the Taylorcraft (over steel tube), numerous steel parts and
LOTS of bare and painted aluminum that is NOT in my plane. I have NEVER
seen any corrosion or etching any worse than caused by Windex, soap and
water, plain water or general etching of the surfaces from exposure to the
elements (like lawn chairs). Has ANYONE ever seen these effects THEMSELVES
or does anyone have an OFFICIAL report of this etching and corrosion ever
happening?
Like I said, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and I can't prove it does, I
just know the stuff is GREAT for cleaning all kinds of surfaces, smells good
and is CONSTANTLY maligned by the aviation community WITH NO PROOF. If it's
bad, I'll use it in the house and ban it from my hangar, if it's not bad, I
want proof of that too. Who has it?
Hank J


"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> No,
>
> couldn't agree more. The idea of washing an aircraft and being able to
> keep fluid from creeping into seams and slits is preposterous.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Thomas Borchert]

Hjarrett,

> I'm not saying they are true or not but I
> have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.
>

Well, the guys at Aviation Consumer got this from the manufacturer (I
hope it's ok to quote this):

"Simple Green is a household cleaner that’s mildly alkaline. Its
manufacturer, Sunshine Makers, Inc., says “the aqueous-base and
alkalinity of Simple Green...can accelerate the corrosion process.
Therefore, contact times of...Simple Green...with unprotected or
unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will
allow...never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be
conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time.”

Sunshine Makers notes that Simple Green doesn’t have Mil-Spec approval
and Navy tests done in 1993 revealed that Simple Green failed sandwich
corrosion and long-term immersion-corrosion tests on aluminum. "

They conclude it wouldn't be their first choice and they would at least
only use it on painted surfaces and rinse very thoroughly.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[hjarrett]

THAT is the kind of information we need! If this is quoted from the
manufacturer then I read it as saying it "can accelerate the corrosion "
(which is true of almost ALL household cleaners since most cleaners are
"mildly alkaline"). I wouldn't worry a lot about the Navy tests and the
lack of a Mil-Spec approval (I was an engineer for the Navy for 25+ years on
the A-6 program and DID these kinds of tests). The sandwich corrosion and
long-term immersion-corrosion tests would be failed by almost ANY common
cleaning solution. The sandwich test involves trapping the cleaner between
two sheets of bare aluminum and exposure to different saline environments.
Almost EVERYTHING fails at some level including clean, filtered de-ionized
water. I would say NO cleaner should be left on a surface for ten minutes
(or even be allowed to dry there at all). If nothing else it is a BEAR to
get the film off.
For myself, I plan to continue using Lemon Pledge (ducking for cover) on my
windshield and will use the Simple Green on my fabric surfaces against
really tough soil (like bug splats on leading edges and belly grime) with a
GOOD rinse afterwards. I'll continue avoiding the aluminum skins,
especially where two or more layers are riveted together, with ALL cleaners.
By the way, the Lemon Pledge does a GREAT job taking bugs off leading edges
and works REALLY well on my wood prop.
Hank (Awaiting the "incoming rounds" on Pledge- no "Mil-Spec approval" there
either) J


"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
> Hjarrett,
>
> > I'm not saying they are true or not but I
> > have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.
> >
>
> Well, the guys at Aviation Consumer got this from the manufacturer (I
> hope it's ok to quote this):
>
> "Simple Green is a household cleaner that's mildly alkaline. Its
> manufacturer, Sunshine Makers, Inc., says "the aqueous-base and
> alkalinity of Simple Green...can accelerate the corrosion process.
> Therefore, contact times of...Simple Green...with unprotected or
> unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will
> allow...never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be
> conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time."
>
> Sunshine Makers notes that Simple Green doesn't have Mil-Spec approval
> and Navy tests done in 1993 revealed that Simple Green failed sandwich
> corrosion and long-term immersion-corrosion tests on aluminum. "
>
> They conclude it wouldn't be their first choice and they would at least
> only use it on painted surfaces and rinse very thoroughly.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Dave Stadt]

"hjarrett" > wrote in message
...
> THAT is the kind of information we need! If this is quoted from the
> manufacturer then I read it as saying it "can accelerate the corrosion "
> (which is true of almost ALL household cleaners since most cleaners are
> "mildly alkaline"). I wouldn't worry a lot about the Navy tests and the
> lack of a Mil-Spec approval (I was an engineer for the Navy for 25+ years
on
> the A-6 program and DID these kinds of tests). The sandwich corrosion and
> long-term immersion-corrosion tests would be failed by almost ANY common
> cleaning solution. The sandwich test involves trapping the cleaner
between
> two sheets of bare aluminum and exposure to different saline environments.
> Almost EVERYTHING fails at some level including clean, filtered de-ionized
> water. I would say NO cleaner should be left on a surface for ten minutes
> (or even be allowed to dry there at all). If nothing else it is a BEAR to
> get the film off.
> For myself, I plan to continue using Lemon Pledge (ducking for cover) on
my
> windshield and will use the Simple Green on my fabric surfaces against
> really tough soil (like bug splats on leading edges and belly grime) with
a
> GOOD rinse afterwards. I'll continue avoiding the aluminum skins,
> especially where two or more layers are riveted together, with ALL
cleaners.
> By the way, the Lemon Pledge does a GREAT job taking bugs off leading
edges
> and works REALLY well on my wood prop.
> Hank (Awaiting the "incoming rounds" on Pledge- no "Mil-Spec approval"
there
> either) J

Exactly! If used correctly simple green is no worse than any other cleaner
if "used correctly." 409 is much worse than Simple Green but has not been
involved in an aviation myth so it must be OK. Pollutants and soaps carried
into seams can be extremely corrosive. A plane stored inside properly
cleaned with Simple Green is much less likely to suffer from corrosion than
a plane stored outside in a seaside, industrial or high pollutant area.
Anybody that washes their plane by flooding it with water is asking for
trouble.

I think you will find most everybody agrees with your Lemon Pledge comments.

[G.R. Patterson III]

hjarrett wrote:
>
> I have been hearing the comments about Simple Green for years and that it
> will etch or corrode Aluminum. I'm not saying they are true or not but I
> have NEVER had anyone give definitive proof that it actually happens.

The U.S. military has published such a statement. Somebody put a link to it here a
year or two back.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Bob Miller]

From the Naval Safety Center's website:

Dear Editor:

The cleaning liquid, Simple Green, should not be used to clean
aluminum equipment or parts because it is highly corrosive.

According to an article at avweb, a 3.5 gram aluminum alloy sample was
immersed into a container of Simple Green. After one week, the sample
was 295 milligrams lighter. The article further states that the Air
Force issued a statement not to use Simple Green on Air Force
equipment containing aluminum.

Thought you Navy folks would like to have this information.

MSgt. Larry Stulz
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio

We appreciate your information about Simple Green. Lt. David Mims,
head of the Occupational and Environmental Health Division here at the
Safety Center, researched the Simple Green situation. He found that
the Naval Air Warfare Center (NavAir) disapproved of the use of Simple
Green for naval aviation in 1993. They have a documented incident of
crazing of an F-18 canopy following the unauthorized use of Simple
Green. According to an official at NAVAIR, they have tested the
product at least three times since 1989. Simple Green fails sandwich
corrosion and total immersion-corrosion tests for aluminum. That
official also said that NAVAIR recommended that commands remove Simple
Green from their spaces. It's just too easy for someone who's told to
clean something to grab a bottle of Simple Green off the shelf and use
it on an airplane or equipment made of aluminum.-Ed.


>
> Like I said, you've been warned.
>
> No Spam

[hjarrett]

I left NAVAIR in 1997 and at that time the only thing I had ever seen was
that it wasn't to be used because it wasn't Mil Spec. I kind of discount
the "immersion test" for it's effects in our situation. Almost ANY cleaner
will tear up bare aluminum if you submerge it and leave it there. There are
strict requirements for what you can use on transparencies, and again LOTS
of chemicals will craze them. Ever seen what AvGas does to Polycarbonate?
I take the warning seriously and like I said, I won't use it where it can
get between layers of aluminum but it sure works good on fabric leading edge
bugs and bellies.
Hank J

"Bob Miller" > wrote in message
om...
> From the Naval Safety Center's website:
>
> Dear Editor:
>
> The cleaning liquid, Simple Green, should not be used to clean
> aluminum equipment or parts because it is highly corrosive.
>
> According to an article at avweb, a 3.5 gram aluminum alloy sample was
> immersed into a container of Simple Green. After one week, the sample
> was 295 milligrams lighter. The article further states that the Air
> Force issued a statement not to use Simple Green on Air Force
> equipment containing aluminum.
>
> Thought you Navy folks would like to have this information.
>
> MSgt. Larry Stulz
> Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio
>
> We appreciate your information about Simple Green. Lt. David Mims,
> head of the Occupational and Environmental Health Division here at the
> Safety Center, researched the Simple Green situation. He found that
> the Naval Air Warfare Center (NavAir) disapproved of the use of Simple
> Green for naval aviation in 1993. They have a documented incident of
> crazing of an F-18 canopy following the unauthorized use of Simple
> Green. According to an official at NAVAIR, they have tested the
> product at least three times since 1989. Simple Green fails sandwich
> corrosion and total immersion-corrosion tests for aluminum. That
> official also said that NAVAIR recommended that commands remove Simple
> Green from their spaces. It's just too easy for someone who's told to
> clean something to grab a bottle of Simple Green off the shelf and use
> it on an airplane or equipment made of aluminum.-Ed.
>
>
> >
> > Like I said, you've been warned.
> >
> > No Spam




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[OSKI 3]

Thanks for the help Dave, Don't these
people ever READ before the reply?
Maybe they know EVERYTING already
so they don't have to understand it only
rebut it. Takes all kinds. Thanks again.
I thought I was the only one wondering.

Bill OParowski
-2million shares of simple green. LOL

[hjarrett]

OK, I have read your message several times and I'm not sure who you think
didn't read before replying. A couple of us have direct testing experience
in this area (I admit mine is a few years dated) and we are all just trying
to get enough information to make an informed decision on something that has
been batted back and forth in aviation circles with very little
substantiation. The Navy says don't use it. I got out of the Navy 30 years
ago. They are ULTRA conservative and I don't take orders from them any more
(WROTE ultra conservative maintenance orders for them for over 25 years
though, which is how I know they are ultra conservative).
Not flaming here, just missed who you are talking about.
Hank J


"OSKI 3" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the help Dave, Don't these
> people ever READ before the reply?
> Maybe they know EVERYTING already
> so they don't have to understand it only
> rebut it. Takes all kinds. Thanks again.
> I thought I was the only one wondering.
>
> Bill OParowski
> -2million shares of simple green. LOL




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Dave Stadt]

"hjarrett" > wrote in message
...
> OK, I have read your message several times and I'm not sure who you think
> didn't read before replying. A couple of us have direct testing
experience
> in this area (I admit mine is a few years dated) and we are all just
trying
> to get enough information to make an informed decision on something that
has
> been batted back and forth in aviation circles with very little
> substantiation. The Navy says don't use it. I got out of the Navy 30
years
> ago. They are ULTRA conservative and I don't take orders from them any
more
> (WROTE ultra conservative maintenance orders for them for over 25 years
> though, which is how I know they are ultra conservative).
> Not flaming here, just missed who you are talking about.
> Hank J

I think he is saying the same thing as you.

>
>
> "OSKI 3" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thanks for the help Dave, Don't these
> > people ever READ before the reply?
> > Maybe they know EVERYTING already
> > so they don't have to understand it only
> > rebut it. Takes all kinds. Thanks again.
> > I thought I was the only one wondering.
> >
> > Bill OParowski
> > -2million shares of simple green. LOL
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----