XM or Sirius Radio?

[Jay Honeck]

We're looking at adding satellite radio service to Atlas. (It's his
reward for winning the trophy for "Best Cherokee 235" at the National
Cherokee fly-in last weekend!)

According to PS Engineering, there is an audio-in channel that can be
used in our existing CD/intercom. We would be looking to connect one
of the new portable radios to this channel.

Can anyone comment on them? Sirius or XM? What's the difference?

I really like the one you see advertised on TV, where the guy pops the
little XM receiver (which appears to be about the size of a cassette
tape) out of his car and brings it into his home boom-box.

It would be slick to have something like that in the plane! Anyone got
anything like it?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
>Can anyone comment on them? Sirius or XM? What's the difference?

If you go with XM, I think you can use the same reciever and subscription
to get WX-Works weather if you eventually get your instrument rating.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
`And when you've been *plonk*ed by Simon C., you've been *plonked*
by someone who knows when, and why, and how.' - Mike Andrews, asr

[Greg]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
...
> We're looking at adding satellite radio service to Atlas. (It's his
> reward for winning the trophy for "Best Cherokee 235" at the National
> Cherokee fly-in last weekend!)

Congratulations!!!

> According to PS Engineering, there is an audio-in channel that can be
> used in our existing CD/intercom. We would be looking to connect one
> of the new portable radios to this channel.
>
> Can anyone comment on them? Sirius or XM? What's the difference?

Check out each's features at www.xmradio.com and www.sirius.com. XM has a
bigger marketshare than Sirius, which might be good or bad. Personally, I'd
prefer Sirius if I were to choose a satellite radio system, but that's just
me based on my previous comparisons I did a few months ago and decided not
to get one at the time.

Compare the 2 systems and decide which has the features per cost that you're
willing to get and pay for, unless you have figured out how to get the
service without paying the monthly fee for it... ;-)

[Jim Weir]

I've asked Gail to post you a response by email. She has done exhaustive
research, not only for our own XM radios (we did its maiden voyage driving XC to
Kitty Hawk in December) but for her Windows radio show as well.

Jim




"Jay Honeck" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


->
->It would be slick to have something like that in the plane! Anyone got
->anything like it?

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Mark T. Mueller]

Unfortunately, you cannot use the same equipment and subscription for both
XM Radio and WxWorx.

The WxWorx portable receiver, however, will allow you to use a single
antenna for both XM Radio receiver and WxWorx.

For the entertainment factor, I went with Sirius. I just like the
programming a bit better, and I got awesome deals on equipment. I have a
Sirius tuner in my Jeep, and a portable Sirius tuner for use with my home
stereo and in the plane. It REALLY makes a difference on long trips!

I also have the NavAir PPC datalink system using WxWorx. I need two boxes.
Even if I used an XM receiver for the tunes, I would still need two boxes.

There is an effort to build a single box that does both, but it is not on
the market yet.

For the price, however, these systems ROCK! I can't imagine long x-countries
without either, and they will be going with me to OSH...

Mark
Tiger N1533R



"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" > said:
> >Can anyone comment on them? Sirius or XM? What's the difference?
>
> If you go with XM, I think you can use the same reciever and subscription
> to get WX-Works weather if you eventually get your instrument rating.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> `And when you've been *plonk*ed by Simon C., you've been *plonked*
> by someone who knows when, and why, and how.' - Mike Andrews, asr

[Peter R.]

Jim Weir wrote:

> I've asked Gail to post you a response by email.

Any chance you could post her reply here, too? I am very interested in
reading her research.

--
Peter







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[Michael 182]

Me too

Michael

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Jim Weir wrote:
>
> > I've asked Gail to post you a response by email.
>
> Any chance you could post her reply here, too? I am very interested in
> reading her research.
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---

[D Ray]

XM has a much broader selection of music, and they play it. Over 2
million tracks in their library, versus 500,000 for Sirius. Sirius
has the NFL games though. I have both and find the sound quality for
XM to be superior and the playlists are much deeper. Sirius has had a
lot of complaints about repetition, and I pretty much agree with it.

XM also has much better hardware. They are at least 18 months ahead
(or more) in their chipsets. Unless one wants to listen to NFL games,
I would choose XM. I think some younger people may prefer some of the
music on Sirius, though -- I can't listen to it, personally.

[Newps]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
...
> I really like the one you see advertised on TV, where the guy pops the
> little XM receiver (which appears to be about the size of a cassette
> tape) out of his car and brings it into his home boom-box.

That's the one I have, the Sky-Fi. The Roady is a little smaller but you
don't want that one, it has several issues.


>
> It would be slick to have something like that in the plane! Anyone got
> anything like it?

Wouldn't be without it.

[Newps]

"Greg" > wrote in message
...
>
> Check out each's features at www.xmradio.com and www.sirius.com. XM has a
> bigger marketshare than Sirius, which might be good or bad.

Sirius is barely a competitor. XM has about 1.5 million subscribers and
Sirius has around 200,000 last time I saw figures.


Personally, I'd
> prefer Sirius if I were to choose a satellite radio system, but that's
just
> me based on my previous comparisons I did a few months ago and decided not
> to get one at the time.
>
> Compare the 2 systems and decide which has the features per cost that
you're
> willing to get

There really aren't any choices with XM. You get it all for $9.95 a month.
You can get the Playboy channel for extra money but it's pretty lame.
Sirius starts at $12.95 a month and I don't know if they offer any other
options.

[Jay Honeck]

> XM also has much better hardware. They are at least 18 months ahead
> (or more) in their chipsets. Unless one wants to listen to NFL games,
> I would choose XM. I think some younger people may prefer some of the
> music on Sirius, though -- I can't listen to it, personally.

Doesn't Sirius also have NPR?

That plus the NFL could be a deciding factor for me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> > We're looking at adding satellite radio service to Atlas. (It's his
> > reward for winning the trophy for "Best Cherokee 235" at the National
> > Cherokee fly-in last weekend!)
>
> Congratulations!!!

Thanks!

We've got Atlas just about perfect now (for an often-flown, "hard-VFR"
bird), but there's always *something* that "needs" to be added!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Yes, Sirius had NPR but if you get WXWorks, then the 'radio' part is an
add-on, not full price.

Also, I inquired of Huntsville, re: Pireps, and your Lowrance, not heard
back yet.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

[Jim Weir]

Here is from Gail...

**************************
First my disclaimer: I'm not without my agenda. I have and love XM.

Yes, that's the Delphi SkyFi in the ad you referenced. Jim and I have a
Delphi Roady in the car (which could be adapted to the airplane) and I have
an XM PCR at my desk -- I listen anywhere from 1 to 6 hours a day I guess. I
also use the PCR (PC Radio) to record programs for later listening (personal
use only). That can also be done with the Roady -- in fact you could use the
line out to any recording device (there is a line level adjustment).

That said, here is a good link to an article by someone who has had both.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/satellite/page2.html

I would add that I think the music sounds great on XM, but I'm not an
audiophile nor to I have expensive speakers, etc. Both services are
continually improving their compression algorithms. XM uses AAC Plus. I
don't know what Sirius uses.

I like the deep playlists on XM. I also enjoy the fact that the BBC feed is
the World Service and not just the news. Note that unless something has
changed, the NPR feed on Sirius (XM doesn't not offer NPR) does not include
some of the flagship shows -- All Things Considered for example. I don't
miss NPR at all. Also Sirius has more sports, but remember they pre-empt
other programs on various "streams" (the same thing XM calls channels).

One big thing is the price -- $9.99 a month for XM vs $12.99 a month for
Sirius. Many tout the Sirius lifetime subcription that will be withdrawn in
August, but remember that this is for the lifetime of the receiver, not your
lifetime -- makes a difference. Both have family plans and multi-year plans.
Read the fine print and it all becomes clear.

We traveled to NC and back from CA on XM and that was before they eliminated
the commercials on all the music channels. It was such a blessing. We only
had a few brief dropouts on I-40 through the Appalachian Mountains and on
I-80 through the Sierra -- brief means less than 15 seconds.

XM Traffic and Weather for the metro areas they cover is very nice, too.

If you want to read the current gripes or praises of current listeners go
to:

http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/index.php

http://www.xmfan.com

http://www.siriusbackstage.com/

And of course both services have a lot of info at their respective sites:

http://www.xmradio.com

http://www.siriusradio.com/

One more very important note about XM, and I can't speak for Sirius since
I'm not a Sirius sub, but XM has not screwed up the billing at all -- they
have been great. When I called Listener Care to add the second receiver on
the Family Plan they were fast, courteous and accurate :-) No outtages or
other problems either.

It's been great and I never want to have to rely on terrestrial radio again.

Gail

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Gail Allinson]

Newps wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I really like the one you see advertised on TV, where the guy pops
>> the little XM receiver (which appears to be about the size of a
>> cassette tape) out of his car and brings it into his home boom-box.
>
> That's the one I have, the Sky-Fi. The Roady is a little smaller but
> you don't want that one, it has several issues.

Just curious. What issues with the Roady are you referring to? We've had
one since December and have no issues, not even sitting right next to our
Garmin 295 if that is the issue you are alluding to (early on there were
reports of problems with the Roady when next to a GPS unit, but it was found
to be an installation issue, not a problem with the Roady). The Roady is
sturdy, reliable, and sounds great with decent speakers (IOW -- sounds
better in the Miata with the Bose Audio than in the Bronco with speakers
that need replacing).

For the price, the Roady can't be beat. The whole SkyFi system is neat and
just may be the best for Jay's application, but the Roady is a neat little
unit and shouldn't be dismissed by anyone without more explicit information.


TIA,

Gail

[Gail Allinson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> We're looking at adding satellite radio service to Atlas. (It's his
> reward for winning the trophy for "Best Cherokee 235" at the National
> Cherokee fly-in last weekend!)

Congrats -- I forgot to say that before -- best 235 is no small honor.

P.S. to my e-mail reply that Jim later posted here. You might enjoy this
thread http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3619 on XM411 -- nice pics
of an airplane install. He mentions the antenna on the glareshield, but the
Roady antenna (Delphi micro antenna) does require a groundplane so I wish
the poster had a pic of that. It has a rather strong mag mount so I'm
looking to temporarily remove the magnet so that we don't interfere with the
compass or some other antenna solution. I guess I'll let my resident
mechanic and antenna expert worry about that, lol. We already know that our
Roady plays nice with our GPS -- we had it right next to the Garmin 295 on
the trip to NC. :-)

Gail

[Mark Manes]

I've had a Delphi Roady in the airplane for about 6 months, plugs directly
into the Garmin 340 audio panel aux input. I have no issues with it. It
works great and I use it at home with a wireless headset. XM has everything
I want to listen to.
--
Mark Manes
WC5I
T310Q N28409



"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I really like the one you see advertised on TV, where the guy pops the
> > little XM receiver (which appears to be about the size of a cassette
> > tape) out of his car and brings it into his home boom-box.
>
> That's the one I have, the Sky-Fi. The Roady is a little smaller but you
> don't want that one, it has several issues.
>
>
> >
> > It would be slick to have something like that in the plane! Anyone got
> > anything like it?
>
> Wouldn't be without it.
>
>
>
>

[D Ray]

>
> That plus the NFL could be a deciding factor for me.

If you wanted to listen to NFL games Sirius will be ideal for you.

I view it as a tradeoff. To me, XM has far superior music and other
content. And they have a good deal of sports coverage as well. But
Sirius has the NFL.

I don't care that much about the NFL so I'm unwilling to give up the
better music content (and more channels of music) for it; but those
who are NFL fans and will be away from their TVs and local broadcasts
on Sunday may go for Sirius.

I think this is the only advantage Sirius has. XM has better hardware
and more music. Sirius has the NFL.

All IMO...

[EDR]

In article <Ak7Cc.90505$HG.66947@attbi_s53>, Jay Honeck
> wrote:

> We've got Atlas just about perfect now (for an often-flown, "hard-VFR"
> bird), but there's always *something* that "needs" to be added!

One has to ask...
How much did Atlas weigh when you bought him?

How much does Atlas weigh with all your "improvements"?

;-))

[Nathan D. Olmscheid]

I have tried both. Both of them are great.

I know that Sirrus is now being installed as an option in a lot of vehicles.
The new Chrysler 300C can have the Sirrus option. No XM option though. Its a
very nice setup if you get the GPS system as well as it uses that big screen
for the meny and such. Very nice package.


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
...
> We're looking at adding satellite radio service to Atlas. (It's his
> reward for winning the trophy for "Best Cherokee 235" at the National
> Cherokee fly-in last weekend!)
>
> According to PS Engineering, there is an audio-in channel that can be
> used in our existing CD/intercom. We would be looking to connect one
> of the new portable radios to this channel.
>
> Can anyone comment on them? Sirius or XM? What's the difference?
>
> I really like the one you see advertised on TV, where the guy pops the
> little XM receiver (which appears to be about the size of a cassette
> tape) out of his car and brings it into his home boom-box.
>
> It would be slick to have something like that in the plane! Anyone got
> anything like it?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[TTA Cherokee Driver]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Can anyone comment on them? Sirius or XM? What's the difference?

If you have a DISH network satellite system with the America's Top 120
(or higher) package, the Sirius music channels are on channels starting
with 6000, so you can get an idea of what it sounds like.

[Viperdoc]

I have a XM in my Baron and it is indispensable for long trips. The car
mount antenna sits on the glare shield along with the receiver. The output
plugs into the audio jack of my PS audio panel.

The only problem is that I get a lot of high pitched audio noise when the
plug is plugged in, even with the radio turned off. I suspect the cheapo
12-6 volt converter in the plug generates enough noise to get picked up.

It really gets annoying after a while, especially since I had a 24-12 volt
converter hard wired into the plane to convert all of the lighter sockets to
12 volts just so I could use the satellite radio. Any suggestions in this
regard would be appreciated.

The reception is excellent (no drop outs like in a car when going under
trees or an underpass). The PS audio panel automatically mutes the radio
when ATC or someone talks on the intercom, which is OK, but could be
annoying to some.

With 110 channels there has to be something to listen to for everyone, and
except for the electrical noise I think it is great.

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
>
> Doesn't Sirius also have NPR?
>
> That plus the NFL could be a deciding factor for me.

Me, too but I doubt you'll ever see the big NPR news shows-- Morning
Edition and All Things Considered -- on satellite. The local affiliates
would scream, and they are NPR's bread and butter.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Gail Allinson]

Viperdoc wrote:
> I have a XM in my Baron and it is indispensable for long trips. The
> car mount antenna sits on the glare shield along with the receiver.
> The output plugs into the audio jack of my PS audio panel.
>
> The only problem is that I get a lot of high pitched audio noise when
> the plug is plugged in, even with the radio turned off. I suspect the
> cheapo 12-6 volt converter in the plug generates enough noise to get
> picked up.
>
> It really gets annoying after a while, especially since I had a 24-12
> volt converter hard wired into the plane to convert all of the
> lighter sockets to 12 volts just so I could use the satellite radio.
> Any suggestions in this regard would be appreciated.

Only you know your installation well enough to know if after reading the
following any of it or none of it may apply. Since I haven't had the problem
so far, I don't really know much about it, but here's the link:

http://www.xm411.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=620

Good luck and thanks for the information about your airplane install since
we are looking to put our Roady in our C-182A next month.

Gail

[Newps]

"Gail Allinson" > wrote in message
...
> Newps wrote:
> > "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> I really like the one you see advertised on TV, where the guy pops
> >> the little XM receiver (which appears to be about the size of a
> >> cassette tape) out of his car and brings it into his home boom-box.
> >
> > That's the one I have, the Sky-Fi. The Roady is a little smaller but
> > you don't want that one, it has several issues.
>
> Just curious. What issues with the Roady are you referring to? We've had
> one since December and have no issues, not even sitting right next to our
> Garmin 295 if that is the issue you are alluding to (early on there were
> reports of problems with the Roady when next to a GPS unit, but it was
found
> to be an installation issue, not a problem with the Roady). The Roady is
> sturdy, reliable, and sounds great with decent speakers (IOW -- sounds
> better in the Miata with the Bose Audio than in the Bronco with speakers
> that need replacing).

XM Radio has had many extensive threads on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website.
There have been many GPS issues, although I didn'y pay attention and see if
it was certain models or what the deal is. It doesn't affect my two GPS's
so I glossed over it. The Roady has some or all connections that hook up to
the radio itself, so if you want to move the radio to your car you have to
unplug cables. The Sky-Fi is a much cleaner setup. The radio goes into a
tray. The tray gets attached to where ever you want to mount it. The
Sky-Fi slides into the tray and all connections are made to the tray and not
to the radio. There have been numerous issues with the audio level being
too low with the Roady. Hardly any issues with the Sky-Fi.

[Aaron Coolidge]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
: We're looking at adding satellite radio service to Atlas. (It's his
: reward for winning the trophy for "Best Cherokee 235" at the National
: Cherokee fly-in last weekend!)


Hey, Jay, did you mention that you were one of two 235's? (grinning).
I have my sources, even though I didn't attend...
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

[Gail Allinson]

Newps wrote:
<snippage>

> XM Radio has had many extensive threads on the Cessna Pilots Assoc
> website. There have been many GPS issues, although I didn't pay
> attention and see if it was certain models or what the deal is. It
> doesn't affect my two GPS's so I glossed over it.

An external antenna on the GPS solves any problems that I have heard of.

The Roady has some
> or all connections that hook up to the radio itself, so if you want
> to move the radio to your car you have to unplug cables.

Very true and that can be a weak point if handled roughly.

The Sky-Fi
> is a much cleaner setup. The radio goes into a tray. The tray gets
> attached to where ever you want to mount it. The Sky-Fi slides into
> the tray and all connections are made to the tray and not to the
> radio. There have been numerous issues with the audio level being
> too low with the Roady. Hardly any issues with the Sky-Fi.

Thanks for the clarification. That's a good and IMHO a valid point and one
of the considerations when deciding to go with a Roady or a SkyFi.

Gail

[Gail Allinson]

There have been numerous issues with the audio level being
> too low with the Roady.

P.S. Missed that -- There is a line level adjustment on the Roady if that's
any help, but since I've not yet tried the Roady in the airplane I can't
speak with authority -- line level is great at the default, 5, for good
speakers but I had to lower it to 3 so that cruddy speakers didn't buzz.

Gail

[Jay Honeck]

> > We've got Atlas just about perfect now (for an often-flown, "hard-VFR"
> > bird), but there's always *something* that "needs" to be added!
>
> One has to ask...
> How much did Atlas weigh when you bought him?
>
> How much does Atlas weigh with all your "improvements"?

Well, everything we've put in has resulted in something being pulled out.

The leather interior was probably the biggest weight penalty, but with our
useful load it didn't really matter. Everything else we've added has been
done while removing something older and (usually) heavier. Nowadays,
everything is lighter, from radios to intercoms to transponders.

And polishing the prop probably saved us some weight, too!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck ) wrote:

> Doesn't Sirius also have NPR?
>
> That plus the NFL could be a deciding factor for me.

As a big fan of music in the cockpit, I learned that I absolutely cannot
listen to talk radio of any type while flying. It is far too distracting
for me to try to concentrate on what is being said while at the same time
listening to ATC.

Now, good jazz has the opposite effect, as it helps me to relax and
concentrate more.

--
Peter














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[Jay Honeck]

> Hey, Jay, did you mention that you were one of two 235's? (grinning).
> I have my sources, even though I didn't attend...

Actually, there were four 235s entered in the judging. (And apparently some
others that the owners didn't want judged.) The 235 is not a common breed.

Last year the CPA (Cherokee Pilots Association) had 235s and 236s (Dakotas)
combined into a single class for competition, which made it a LOT tougher.
The Dakota that won last year was a late-model aircraft with a $50K glass
panel. (It's actually for sale now -- for something like $170K.)

This year they split the competition into several more classes (For example,
early model Cherokee 180s were in a separate class from Archers this year,
etc.) which made the classes a bit smaller, and the competition a lot more
fair.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> As a big fan of music in the cockpit, I learned that I absolutely cannot
> listen to talk radio of any type while flying. It is far too distracting
> for me to try to concentrate on what is being said while at the same time
> listening to ATC.

True, but we Packer fans are a fanatical lot.

It's probably unsafe to fly a light plane anywhere in Wisconsin on game
day...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter R.]

Jay Honeck ) wrote:

> > As a big fan of music in the cockpit, I learned that I absolutely cannot
> > listen to talk radio of any type while flying. It is far too distracting
> > for me to try to concentrate on what is being said while at the same time
> > listening to ATC.
>
> True, but we Packer fans are a fanatical lot.

So I've heard.

> It's probably unsafe to fly a light plane anywhere in Wisconsin on game
> day...

Hey, at least you have the option of having your wife fly, then isolating
her communication while you and your children enjoy the game.

--
Peter














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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Brooks Hagenow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:NhCCc.95394$HG.90736@attbi_s53...
> > As a big fan of music in the cockpit, I learned that I absolutely cannot
> > listen to talk radio of any type while flying. It is far too
distracting
> > for me to try to concentrate on what is being said while at the same
time
> > listening to ATC.
>
> True, but we Packer fans are a fanatical lot.
>
> It's probably unsafe to fly a light plane anywhere in Wisconsin on game
> day...
>

Of course if the Packers are all you care about, go with XM radio for the
music and listen to the game by tuning the ADF into the Packer Radio
Network. Just remember not to fly by it while doing so.

[Jay Honeck]

> Of course if the Packers are all you care about, go with XM radio for the
> music and listen to the game by tuning the ADF into the Packer Radio
> Network. Just remember not to fly by it while doing so.

Our ADF is loooong gone...

I really miss it...but only for the Packer Radio Network!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Newps]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:Z46Dc.118876$Sw.27061@attbi_s51...
> > Of course if the Packers are all you care about, go with XM radio for
the
> > music and listen to the game by tuning the ADF into the Packer Radio
> > Network. Just remember not to fly by it while doing so.
>
> Our ADF is loooong gone...
>
> I really miss it...but only for the Packer Radio Network!

For twenty bucks you can get an AM/FM Walkman radio from Walmart. Plumb it
into your music in and you have your football game.