rebuilding

[Greg Copeland]

I'm just curious about rebuilding an aircraft engine. If you can rebuild
automotive engines, will an aircraft engine be a no brainer? Are special
tools often required?

Does anyone know of any good websites that do a walk through of the
process. Not that I'm planning on doing it, let alone via website
instructions, but I am intersted in learned more about the process and the
associated costs. In the, "O-320 Engine Costs - 172", thread, I see some
costs were fairly well layed out. Information like like that, helps fuel
the dream of ownership one day, by allowing us to better understand the
complete lifecycle costs associated with ownership.


Thanks,

Greg Copeland

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Greg Copeland > wrote:

> I'm just curious about rebuilding an aircraft engine. If you can rebuild
> automotive engines, will an aircraft engine be a no brainer? Are special
> tools often required?
>
> Does anyone know of any good websites that do a walk through of the
> process. Not that I'm planning on doing it, let alone via website
> instructions, but I am intersted in learned more about the process and the
> associated costs. In the, "O-320 Engine Costs - 172", thread, I see some
> costs were fairly well layed out. Information like like that, helps fuel
> the dream of ownership one day, by allowing us to better understand the
> complete lifecycle costs associated with ownership.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Copeland
>

You really need the Lycoming Overhaul Manual, which lists tolerances,
torques, etc. for all Lycoming opposed engines. Then get to be friends
with an A&P mechanic, who is willing to supervise your work.

Some work is best farmed out, like cams, crank regrinding and checking,
etc.

[Kyle Boatright]

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Greg Copeland > wrote:
>
> > I'm just curious about rebuilding an aircraft engine. If you can
rebuild
> > automotive engines, will an aircraft engine be a no brainer? Are
special
> > tools often required?
> >
> > Does anyone know of any good websites that do a walk through of the
> > process. Not that I'm planning on doing it, let alone via website
> > instructions, but I am intersted in learned more about the process and
the
> > associated costs. In the, "O-320 Engine Costs - 172", thread, I see
some
> > costs were fairly well layed out. Information like like that, helps
fuel
> > the dream of ownership one day, by allowing us to better understand the
> > complete lifecycle costs associated with ownership.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Greg Copeland
> >
>
> You really need the Lycoming Overhaul Manual, which lists tolerances,
> torques, etc. for all Lycoming opposed engines. Then get to be friends
> with an A&P mechanic, who is willing to supervise your work.
>
> Some work is best farmed out, like cams, crank regrinding and checking,
> etc.

Agreed.

In addition, once you buy all the little yellow tags that come with
inspected and "guaranteed to meet the spec" parts, the assembly of a
Lycoming is relatively simple. Probably a two evening job for you and
someone who's done it before and will be comfortable looking over your
shoulder and signing paperwork. On the other hand, once you've bought all
the little yellow tags, having a professional assemble the thing for you
only adds about $500 to the cost.

It probably takes an A/P more time to box all the re-certifiable parts, ship
'em, and deal with the engine part shops than it would take him to rebuild
the engine. He's gonna charge you for that time too. The thing is, he
probably gets a discount from the engine part shops and his $500 in
time/labor for dealing with the shops is probably a wash to you if he passes
along his discount from the engine part shops.

Installing the rebuilt engine is actually more work than assembling it.
You've gotta fix/fit baffles, install (replace/repair?) an exhaust, attach
(rebuild?) the carb, plumb the carb, attach (replace?) push-pull's, install
(overhaul/replace?) and time the mag's, install the starter, plumb an oil
cooler, etc, etc, etc... Then you get to attach the prop, run it up, check
for leaks (you did add oil, right?), and re-cowl it.

Beating a dead horse here, but the actual assembling of the engine isn't the
hard part, nor does it consume very much time in the scheme of things.

KB

[jls]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
>
.
...
> > In article >,
> > Greg Copeland > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm just curious about rebuilding an aircraft engine. If you can
> rebuild
> > > automotive engines, will an aircraft engine be a no brainer? Are
> special
> > > tools often required?
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of any good websites that do a walk through of the
> > > process. Not that I'm planning on doing it, let alone via website
> > > instructions, but I am intersted in learned more about the process and
> the
> > > associated costs. In the, "O-320 Engine Costs - 172", thread, I see
> some
> > > costs were fairly well layed out. Information like like that, helps
> fuel
> > > the dream of ownership one day, by allowing us to better understand
the
> > > complete lifecycle costs associated with ownership.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Greg Copeland
> > >
> >
> > You really need the Lycoming Overhaul Manual, which lists tolerances,
> > torques, etc. for all Lycoming opposed engines. Then get to be friends
> > with an A&P mechanic, who is willing to supervise your work.
> >
> > Some work is best farmed out, like cams, crank regrinding and checking,
> > etc.
>
> Agreed.
>
> In addition, once you buy all the little yellow tags that come with
> inspected and "guaranteed to meet the spec" parts, the assembly of a
> Lycoming is relatively simple. Probably a two evening job for you and
> someone who's done it before and will be comfortable looking over your
> shoulder and signing paperwork. On the other hand, once you've bought all
> the little yellow tags, having a professional assemble the thing for you
> only adds about $500 to the cost.
>
> It probably takes an A/P more time to box all the re-certifiable parts,
ship
> 'em, and deal with the engine part shops than it would take him to rebuild
> the engine. He's gonna charge you for that time too. The thing is, he
> probably gets a discount from the engine part shops and his $500 in
> time/labor for dealing with the shops is probably a wash to you if he
passes
> along his discount from the engine part shops.
>
> Installing the rebuilt engine is actually more work than assembling it.
> You've gotta fix/fit baffles, install (replace/repair?) an exhaust, attach
> (rebuild?) the carb, plumb the carb, attach (replace?) push-pull's,
install
> (overhaul/replace?) and time the mag's, install the starter, plumb an oil
> cooler, etc, etc, etc... Then you get to attach the prop, run it up,
check
> for leaks (you did add oil, right?), and re-cowl it.
>
> Beating a dead horse here, but the actual assembling of the engine isn't
the
> hard part, nor does it consume very much time in the scheme of things.
>
> KB

Excellent. I just did it for the 7th or 8th time, this time on an O-300,
and the bafflling and seals are what took the most bothersome time. It was
just a top, though. Then there was a lifter that gave me hell because I
couldn't get the little circlip out holding the hydraulic unit in. Gotta
check out those dry valve clearances and to do that you have to collapse the
hydraulic units.

I remember seeing an interesting site where a first-time engine rebuilder
did a major on his IO-360 Continental he installed in a Globe Swift. Under
the helpful watch of a friendly A&P, nacherly. Googling should bring it up.
The Swifters also have a great website with lots of interesting tech info on
engines for the Swifts, including Lycs.

Some "mechanics" try to wedge and bang Lyc case halves apart. I don't like
that idea. The case should be gingerly "pressed apart" with the special
tool made for the purpose. Course, with some heavy aluminum plates and 3/4
inch threaded rod you can make your own tool for the purpose.

[Grandpa B.]

I got my C-90 back from a major a few weeks ago. I had originally considered
doing the work myself, under the supervision of a certified guy. Since he's
~70 miles away, and I really wouldn't save a heap o' cash, I just dropped it
off at the shop.

Between the two guys working on it, they had a total of just over 30 hours
labor in it. I wouldn't have though it to be that high. Had I been there, I
could have done some of the grunt work - cleaning parts, etc. Maybe could
have saved a few hundred greenbacks.

I have built all the baffling for it, though. That, as was said, is a
time-consuming pain in the rear, even with the old pieces as a pattern. I
also welded new flanges on the exhaust stacks, installed the oil filter
adapter, had the starter & generator overhauled (local auto shop), and will
install the carb & intake stuff when I get it back. I hung the engine on the
airframe, and am doing all the hook-ups (except the mags, which need to be
timed).

I have about $8500-8800 in it, thus far. The crankcase and acc'y case were
both replaced; the acc'y case was new from Continental.

Anyone out there have a prop for a C-90? I need either a Sens. 76AK-2-xx
(prefer a 44 pitch) or a W72GK-4x (46, maybe?). The engine's hanging on a
Champion 7FC/EC.

Jon

" jls" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in
message
> >
>
.
> ..
> > > In article >,
> > > Greg Copeland > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm just curious about rebuilding an aircraft engine. If you can
> > rebuild
> > > > automotive engines, will an aircraft engine be a no brainer? Are
> > special
> > > > tools often required?
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know of any good websites that do a walk through of the
> > > > process. Not that I'm planning on doing it, let alone via website
> > > > instructions, but I am intersted in learned more about the process
and
> > the
> > > > associated costs. In the, "O-320 Engine Costs - 172", thread, I see
> > some
> > > > costs were fairly well layed out. Information like like that, helps
> > fuel
> > > > the dream of ownership one day, by allowing us to better understand
> the
> > > > complete lifecycle costs associated with ownership.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Greg Copeland
> > > >
> > >
> > > You really need the Lycoming Overhaul Manual, which lists tolerances,
> > > torques, etc. for all Lycoming opposed engines. Then get to be friends
> > > with an A&P mechanic, who is willing to supervise your work.
> > >
> > > Some work is best farmed out, like cams, crank regrinding and
checking,
> > > etc.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > In addition, once you buy all the little yellow tags that come with
> > inspected and "guaranteed to meet the spec" parts, the assembly of a
> > Lycoming is relatively simple. Probably a two evening job for you and
> > someone who's done it before and will be comfortable looking over your
> > shoulder and signing paperwork. On the other hand, once you've bought
all
> > the little yellow tags, having a professional assemble the thing for you
> > only adds about $500 to the cost.
> >
> > It probably takes an A/P more time to box all the re-certifiable parts,
> ship
> > 'em, and deal with the engine part shops than it would take him to
rebuild
> > the engine. He's gonna charge you for that time too. The thing is, he
> > probably gets a discount from the engine part shops and his $500 in
> > time/labor for dealing with the shops is probably a wash to you if he
> passes
> > along his discount from the engine part shops.
> >
> > Installing the rebuilt engine is actually more work than assembling it.
> > You've gotta fix/fit baffles, install (replace/repair?) an exhaust,
attach
> > (rebuild?) the carb, plumb the carb, attach (replace?) push-pull's,
> install
> > (overhaul/replace?) and time the mag's, install the starter, plumb an
oil
> > cooler, etc, etc, etc... Then you get to attach the prop, run it up,
> check
> > for leaks (you did add oil, right?), and re-cowl it.
> >
> > Beating a dead horse here, but the actual assembling of the engine isn't
> the
> > hard part, nor does it consume very much time in the scheme of things.
> >
> > KB
>
> Excellent. I just did it for the 7th or 8th time, this time on an O-300,
> and the bafflling and seals are what took the most bothersome time. It
was
> just a top, though. Then there was a lifter that gave me hell because I
> couldn't get the little circlip out holding the hydraulic unit in. Gotta
> check out those dry valve clearances and to do that you have to collapse
the
> hydraulic units.
>
> I remember seeing an interesting site where a first-time engine rebuilder
> did a major on his IO-360 Continental he installed in a Globe Swift.
Under
> the helpful watch of a friendly A&P, nacherly. Googling should bring it
up.
> The Swifters also have a great website with lots of interesting tech info
on
> engines for the Swifts, including Lycs.
>
> Some "mechanics" try to wedge and bang Lyc case halves apart. I don't
like
> that idea. The case should be gingerly "pressed apart" with the special
> tool made for the purpose. Course, with some heavy aluminum plates and
3/4
> inch threaded rod you can make your own tool for the purpose.
>
>
>
>

[Kyle Boatright]

"Grandpa B." <never.mind> wrote in message
...
> I got my C-90 back from a major a few weeks ago. I had originally
considered
> doing the work myself, under the supervision of a certified guy. Since
he's
> ~70 miles away, and I really wouldn't save a heap o' cash, I just dropped
it
> off at the shop.
>
> Between the two guys working on it, they had a total of just over 30
hours
> labor in it. I wouldn't have though it to be that high. Had I been there,
I
> could have done some of the grunt work - cleaning parts, etc. Maybe could
> have saved a few hundred greenbacks.
>
<<snip>>>

> I have about $8500-8800 in it, thus far. The crankcase and acc'y case were
> both replaced; the acc'y case was new from Continental.
>
> Anyone out there have a prop for a C-90? I need either a Sens. 76AK-2-xx
> (prefer a 44 pitch) or a W72GK-4x (46, maybe?). The engine's hanging on a
> Champion 7FC/EC.
>
> Jon
>

I bet if the shop broke down the time they spent, about 1/3 of it would be
in re-assembling the engine, another third in buying parts and dealing with
part certification shops, and another 1/3 was tearing it down and cleaning
it...

KB

[Kyle Boatright]

"Gene Kearns" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:17:56 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >I bet if the shop broke down the time they spent, about 1/3 of it would
be
> >in re-assembling the engine, another third in buying parts and dealing
with
> >part certification shops, and another 1/3 was tearing it down and
cleaning
> >it...
>
> You left out THE most time consuming and demanding part of an
> overhaul.... physical measurement and inspection (including NDI).
>
>

That was included in "dealing with part certification shops". I.E. boxing
stuff up, sending it off, paying the bill, and unboxing it when it arrives
via UPS.

KB