Logging local flights.

[Rich]

I am curious about how people choose to log local flights where you
might fly over another airport or city, but not land there.

For example, on a nice day I might make an hour or hour and a half
"grand tour" over several nearby cities, just for the pleasure of
looking at the changing countryside, and then land back at my home airport.

No FAR issues, of course, but wonder if most people just enter it as
"KXYZ LCL", or cite the cities or airports flown over but not landed at.

Second, what is your preference if you make a flight involving several
intermediate stops, all in one day? If it's a major cross country, I'll
log each leg on a separate line, but if it's just "A" to "B" to "C" to
"A"... do you log each leg separately or show it as multiple entries on
a single line with the grand total time for the trip?

Third, I've been using a simple Excel spreadsheet to summarize the time
which is offically kept in a standard logbook. A formal computerized
logbook seems like "overkill" to me, but I'd be interested in comments
from people who have a favorite computerized logbook, and what features
they particularly like.

Rich

[Rosspilot]

>I am curious about how people choose to log local flights where you
>might fly over another airport or city, but not land there.


I only log if I land (minimally touch-n-go)
but I might make notes in the comments section of what cities I overflew.


>what is your preference if you make a flight involving several
>intermediate stops, all in one day?

On a long cross-country flights, I log each leg on one line. I make sufficient
notes in the tiny space provided for comments so that I can look back years
later and recall details of the flight . . . who was with me, what site I
photographed (if any) and other "memory joggers".


www.Rosspilot.com

[NW_PILOT]

If its local lets use my home base 59S as example

59S to 59S Comments of What i did number and type of landings at home
airport and time of flight



"Rich" > wrote in message
...
> I am curious about how people choose to log local flights where you
> might fly over another airport or city, but not land there.
>
> For example, on a nice day I might make an hour or hour and a half
> "grand tour" over several nearby cities, just for the pleasure of
> looking at the changing countryside, and then land back at my home
airport.
>
> No FAR issues, of course, but wonder if most people just enter it as
> "KXYZ LCL", or cite the cities or airports flown over but not landed at.
>
> Second, what is your preference if you make a flight involving several
> intermediate stops, all in one day? If it's a major cross country, I'll
> log each leg on a separate line, but if it's just "A" to "B" to "C" to
> "A"... do you log each leg separately or show it as multiple entries on
> a single line with the grand total time for the trip?
>
> Third, I've been using a simple Excel spreadsheet to summarize the time
> which is offically kept in a standard logbook. A formal computerized
> logbook seems like "overkill" to me, but I'd be interested in comments
> from people who have a favorite computerized logbook, and what features
> they particularly like.
>
> Rich
>

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

I use an Excel spreadsheet highly modified from the way it came to me from
this group. I added things like 'conditional formatting to show yellow
cells if not longer night or IFR current, approaches, etc. Another tab
summarizes time in type, another for W&B, another for Angel flights you get
the point.

A spreadsheet you can control (read modify) is great, as it can be modified
to suit your use, not the features another person (perhaps non-flying)
thought you needed.

As for logging, I prefer logging trips as one line. I have no desire to
fill up a book for sake of filling it. I had a trip last week from my home
base and back with 3 side trips and one weather diversion. Lots of airport
id's, day & night landing but one line.

Thx, {|;-)
Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

[Matt Whiting]

Rich wrote:

> I am curious about how people choose to log local flights where you
> might fly over another airport or city, but not land there.
>
> For example, on a nice day I might make an hour or hour and a half
> "grand tour" over several nearby cities, just for the pleasure of
> looking at the changing countryside, and then land back at my home airport.
>
> No FAR issues, of course, but wonder if most people just enter it as
> "KXYZ LCL", or cite the cities or airports flown over but not landed at.

Yes, I typically list "local."


> Second, what is your preference if you make a flight involving several
> intermediate stops, all in one day? If it's a major cross country, I'll
> log each leg on a separate line, but if it's just "A" to "B" to "C" to
> "A"... do you log each leg separately or show it as multiple entries on
> a single line with the grand total time for the trip?

I almost always log each leg as a separate entry. Flying only 25-50
hours a year fills the log book pretty slowly even with this method.


Matt

[Elwood Dowd]

I think you are discovering the difference between a flight log---a
legal document---and a flight journal, where you record memories. I
suggest you keep both.

For "local long distance" flights, where I hop from place to place but
end up back home at the end of the day, I put an extra column in my log
and marked it "VIA". In there I list any local airports I may have
stopped at for gas or nature. Often, a "real" cross-country flight will
end up there as well if I forget to write down the Hobbs time while I'm
there. In that case I do it all on one line---mark the total time down
as x-c and just put the airport where I stopped in the VIA column. Then
I have a record of where I landed and the total time for the flight. I
specifically do not put down places I simply flew over---that's for the
journal.

I have noticed over the years that I use that column more and more as my
concept of "local" has expanded with experience. I now include trips to
work in my definition of "local" even though they are 150 miles away. I
still mark the time down as cross-country, of course, I just don't go
into the same detail I would if I were going to a neighboring state, for
example.

Having a faster plane changes things as well! A 1-hour flight in my
Beech puts me a LOT farther away than it did in a rented 152.

[Edward Todd]

In article >,
(Rosspilot) wrote:

>....I make
> sufficient
> notes in the tiny space provided for comments so that I can look back years
> later and recall details of the flight . . . who was with me, what site I
> photographed (if any) and other "memory joggers".
>


Be careful with those notes. They become part of the 'official' record.
Someone who, as part of being checked for something else, had their log
book checked and it was noticed that he had taken a passenger up, and he
wasn't current with his take offs and landings. His note in the memo
section of the passenger did him in.


Edward

[Rosspilot]

>
>>....I make
>> sufficient
>> notes in the tiny space provided for comments so that I can look back years
>> later and recall details of the flight . . . who was with me, what site I
>> photographed (if any) and other "memory joggers".
>>
>
>
>Be careful with those notes. They become part of the 'official' record.
>Someone who, as part of being checked for something else, had their log
>book checked and it was noticed that he had taken a passenger up, and he
>wasn't current with his take offs and landings. His note in the memo
>section of the passenger did him in.
>
>


I'm not worried about it at all. I keep my logbook accurate for ME.

Where does this paranoia come from?






www.Rosspilot.com

[Edward Todd]

In article >,
(Rosspilot) wrote:

> Where does this paranoia come from?
>


You know where ... I never list flights as aerial shoots :)


Edward
(Who will, to answer the question, go for the commercial as soon as he
gets close to the hours needed. 175 and counting)

[G.R. Patterson III]

Rich wrote:
>
> For example, on a nice day I might make an hour or hour and a half
> "grand tour" over several nearby cities, just for the pleasure of
> looking at the changing countryside, and then land back at my home airport.

I will log it as 3N6 - Local. I may add a comment about the flight in the comments
section.

> Second, what is your preference if you make a flight involving several
> intermediate stops, all in one day? If it's a major cross country, I'll
> log each leg on a separate line, but if it's just "A" to "B" to "C" to
> "A"... do you log each leg separately or show it as multiple entries on
> a single line with the grand total time for the trip?

If I remember to note down the tach time at each stop, I will log each leg as a
separate entry. If not, I'll put several on one line.

> Third, I've been using a simple Excel spreadsheet to summarize the time
> which is offically kept in a standard logbook. A formal computerized
> logbook seems like "overkill" to me, but I'd be interested in comments
> from people who have a favorite computerized logbook, and what features
> they particularly like.

I don't keep my logs on a computer. I'm still in the paper mode.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Bob Chilcoat]

I use a spreadsheet I made up that prints out pages in the same format as my
paper logbook. It calculates the page totals so that I don't have to add
them up by hand. I put everything in there so that I could re-construct the
paper log if I ever lose it. The computer log also calculates time in type,
time over the last year, time over the last six months, and other useful
summaries when medicals and insurance require it.

If anyone wants a copy, send me your e-mail address. De-mung my return
address first, though.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Rich wrote:
> >
> > For example, on a nice day I might make an hour or hour and a half
> > "grand tour" over several nearby cities, just for the pleasure of
> > looking at the changing countryside, and then land back at my home
airport.
>
> I will log it as 3N6 - Local. I may add a comment about the flight in the
comments
> section.
>
> > Second, what is your preference if you make a flight involving several
> > intermediate stops, all in one day? If it's a major cross country, I'll
> > log each leg on a separate line, but if it's just "A" to "B" to "C" to
> > "A"... do you log each leg separately or show it as multiple entries on
> > a single line with the grand total time for the trip?
>
> If I remember to note down the tach time at each stop, I will log each leg
as a
> separate entry. If not, I'll put several on one line.
>
> > Third, I've been using a simple Excel spreadsheet to summarize the time
> > which is offically kept in a standard logbook. A formal computerized
> > logbook seems like "overkill" to me, but I'd be interested in comments
> > from people who have a favorite computerized logbook, and what features
> > they particularly like.
>
> I don't keep my logs on a computer. I'm still in the paper mode.
>
> George Patterson
> In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony
assault.
> In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Elwood Dowd]

Out of curiosity, what do you do about signatures? I have a similar
system but I back it up by scanning the pages of my logbook that are
signed---BFRs and such.

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
> I use a spreadsheet I made up that prints out pages in the same format as my
> paper logbook. It calculates the page totals so that I don't have to add
> them up by hand. I put everything in there so that I could re-construct the
> paper log if I ever lose it. The computer log also calculates time in type,
> time over the last year, time over the last six months, and other useful
> summaries when medicals and insurance require it.
>

[Bob Chilcoat]

I don't worry too much about signatures. I do Xerox pages that have
signatures such as BFR's and such, but I figure it's more important to keep
the basic data in one place. I keep a folderof printouts of the computer
log and the Xerox pages in a safe place (fire safe).

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Elwood Dowd" > wrote in message
...
> Out of curiosity, what do you do about signatures? I have a similar
> system but I back it up by scanning the pages of my logbook that are
> signed---BFRs and such.
>
> Bob Chilcoat wrote:
> > I use a spreadsheet I made up that prints out pages in the same format
as my
> > paper logbook. It calculates the page totals so that I don't have to
add
> > them up by hand. I put everything in there so that I could re-construct
the
> > paper log if I ever lose it. The computer log also calculates time in
type,
> > time over the last year, time over the last six months, and other useful
> > summaries when medicals and insurance require it.
> >

[NW_PILOT]

I keep notarized photos copies in my banks safe deposit box, Logs are money!


>"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> I don't worry too much about signatures. I do Xerox pages that have
> signatures such as BFR's and such, but I figure it's more important to
keep
> the basic data in one place. I keep a folderof printouts of the computer
> log and the Xerox pages in a safe place (fire safe).
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
> I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
> America
>
> "Elwood Dowd" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Out of curiosity, what do you do about signatures? I have a similar
> > system but I back it up by scanning the pages of my logbook that are
> > signed---BFRs and such.
> >
> > Bob Chilcoat wrote:
> > > I use a spreadsheet I made up that prints out pages in the same format
> as my
> > > paper logbook. It calculates the page totals so that I don't have to
> add
> > > them up by hand. I put everything in there so that I could
re-construct
> the
> > > paper log if I ever lose it. The computer log also calculates time in
> type,
> > > time over the last year, time over the last six months, and other
useful
> > > summaries when medicals and insurance require it.
> > >
>
>

[Rosspilot]

> Logs are money!

How is that?



www.Rosspilot.com

[Allen]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> I keep notarized photos copies in my banks safe deposit box, Logs are
money!
>
>

Some aircraft would be worth more without complete logs! hehe

Allen

[Elwood Dowd]

We are discussing pilot logs rather than logs for the plane. Plane logs
are definitely money, I would be surprised if we all didn't agree on that.

Pilot logs are worth some cash if you are working toward a rating. They
are the proof of your experience, often with signatures that would be
difficult to replace.

Allen wrote:

> "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I keep notarized photos copies in my banks safe deposit box, Logs are
> money!
>
> Some aircraft would be worth more without complete logs! hehe

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Getting your flight log updated w/b a pain but I don't see the cost unless
you had to re-take check rides, etc.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.



take off my shoes to reply

[NW_PILOT]

Ok, say your a private pilot with 20 hours of instrument instruction 20
hours simulator time, you move to a new area and in that move you lose your
log book, you cannot find your instructor to re create the logs because he
took an airline job. I'd say that's money lost. Because you would have to do
that training over again. So logs are money.


"Rosspilot" > wrote in message
...
> > Logs are money!
>
> How is that?
>
>
>
> www.Rosspilot.com
>
>

[Rosspilot]

>Ok, say your a private pilot with 20 hours of instrument instruction 20
>hours simulator time, you move to a new area and in that move you lose your
>log book, you cannot find your instructor to re create the logs because he
>took an airline job. I'd say that's money lost.


And I'd say it's a lost logbook.



Because you would have to do
>that training over again. So logs are money.
>

If you think logs are money, try buying a new GPS using yours. By your logic,
EVERYTHING that *costs* money IS money.

I am not being obtuse. I know very well what your point is. But it's a pet
peeve of mine when I hear the old generally-accepted adage, "time is money".

Time is time. Money is money. They are neither synonymous nor
interchangeable.

And neither are a logbook and money.



www.Rosspilot.com

[Edward Todd]

In article >,
(Rosspilot) wrote:

> Time is time. Money is money. They are neither synonymous nor
> interchangeable.
>


Always a fixed fee for a shoot? Never charge by the hour?


Edward

[Rosspilot]

>
>> Time is time. Money is money. They are neither synonymous nor
>> interchangeable.
>>
>
>
>Always a fixed fee for a shoot? Never charge by the hour?

I personally do not because I do not believe in the entire concept of charging
by the hour for creative or intellectual work. But that begs the question.

My clients are not paying for "time". They are paying for the work created
during that time. Most don't care how long it takes.

Time is NOT money.

Ask the next wealthy terminal cancer patient you meet.





www.Rosspilot.com

[Edward Todd]

In article >,
(Rosspilot) wrote:

> >
> >> Time is time. Money is money. They are neither synonymous nor
> >> interchangeable.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Always a fixed fee for a shoot? Never charge by the hour?
>
> I personally do not because I do not believe in the entire concept of charging
> by the hour for creative or intellectual work. But that begs the question.
>
> My clients are not paying for "time". They are paying for the work created
> during that time. Most don't care how long it takes.
>
> Time is NOT money.



You've never had to pay a plumber, who took smoking breaks while still
on the clock, as you stand there realizing each minute is costing you
more. :)

I understand what you are saying ... and from your viewpoint it comes
from years of charging usuage fees, which have nothing to do with your
time and labor, but of value to the customer.

But to those of us that shoot other types of projects, that are not
images per se, our time becomes a big factor in how we develop a
budget/proposal.

I shoot video as well, for example. I am going to charge more for a
project that reqires 2 days of on-location production that a project
that can be shot in 1 day (time = money)

If I can edit that video in 10 hours it will certainly cost less to the
client, than a project that requires 40 hours of editing (less time =
less money).

Next time you need your AP mechanic to work on your plane ... ask for a
fixed quote since you don't believe in the 'time=money' idea. He may
well give you a quote this way, but it will be high, and you will pay
more, since he will (in his mind) figure the worst case scenario
'time/wise' in figuring his labor charge.

TBO .... definitley a time = money issue :)


Edward

[Rosspilot]

>You've never had to pay a plumber, who took smoking breaks while still
>on the clock, as you stand there realizing each minute is costing you
>more.

Never said that. OF COURSE I have . . . every time I needed a plumber,
electrician, or an aircraft mechanic. I just don't think it's right, and the
smoking plumber is EXACTLY my rationale. Paying by the hour destroys all
incentive to be efficient and productive, and it could be argued that, in fact,
it encourages the abuse to which you refer.

>I am going to charge more for a
>project that reqires 2 days of on-location production that a project
>that can be shot in 1 day (time = money)

Whoa! I was with you right up to your last parenthetical expression. But I am
afraid we're just going to have to leave it at that and disagree.

It's a semantic argument.


www.Rosspilot.com