Mooney M20E: pre-1969 vs 1969+

[Jeff Meininger]

I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
important and what isn't.

1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?

2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?

3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
valid concern?

4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?

Thanks!

[Jim Burns]

http://www.mooneypilots.com/m20E.html

maybe you've already seen this article.

Jim

"Jeff Meininger" > wrote in message
...
>
> I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
> the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
> of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
> important and what isn't.
>
> 1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
> on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?
>
> 2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
> for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
> changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?
>
> 3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
> manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
> slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
> costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
> valid concern?
>
> 4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
> noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.756 / Virus Database: 506 - Release Date: 9/8/2004

[Jim Burns]

or this model chronology
http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

Jim

"Jeff Meininger" > wrote in message
...
>
> I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
> the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
> of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
> important and what isn't.
>
> 1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
> on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?
>
> 2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
> for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
> changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?
>
> 3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
> manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
> slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
> costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
> valid concern?
>
> 4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
> noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.756 / Virus Database: 506 - Release Date: 9/8/2004

[Bob Miller]

(Jeff Meininger) wrote in message >...

Most of the changes were to reduce manufacturing cost.

> I understand that in 1969, Mooney implemented a number of changes in
> the M20C / M20E models. A friend and I might start shopping for one
> of these planes in a few months, and I'm trying to figure out what's
> important and what isn't.

> 1. Does the larger rudder in the 1969+ models have a positive impact
> on crosswind performance? How about forward slip performance?

I don't know, but my '65C slips pretty well and lands in 20+ knot
crosswinds. In general Mooneys are not great forward slippers due to
the small rudder, but if you can learn to manage your energy state
it's not a big deal. Mine has manual speedbrakes, so I can be pretty
lazy.

> 2. The top of the green arc was increased from 150 MIAS to 175 MIAS
> for 1969+ models. Aside from the rudder, are there any airframe
> changes that might explain this change? Is the '69+ plane stronger?

No it was a paperwork change, info from Bill Wheat retired Mooney test
pilot

> 3. Although I've never used it, I like the idea of the "johnson bar"
> manual gear system. These are unavailable in 1969+ models, and I'm
> slightly concerned about the increased complexity and maintenance
> costs that might be associated with the electric system. Is this a
> valid concern?

Mooney electric gear is relatively low maintenance. It's a close
second best to the superior manual gear system :-).

> 4. Aside from the improved panel layout, are there any other
> noteworthy differences between various M20E model years?

Fixed cowl flaps (although the movable ones on my '65 are worth maybe
2 kias)
Throttle quadrant instead of push-pull knobs (you may prefer one or
the other)
exposed rivets on bottom of wing
non-flush mounted inspection panels on bottom of wing
fixed stop vs retractable step
friction baggage door holder vs. overcenter
shimmy dampener on nosewheel (which I understand is often removed)
Perhaps better night lighting

Note that a SWTA or LASAR 6-pack side flight instrument panel is
available at a relatively low cost for the earlier "shotgun" panels
>
> Thanks!

I have a very cherry '65C/J clone that I plan to list in a few months
as I am moving "up" :-( to a 6-seat Piper mini-van. E-mail me
privately for details.

You will be very happy with a Mooney. Pre or post '69 is not much
different. A friend of mine has a '74C that is probably the best in
the country.

Bob Miller
arnospamjrmillerATsbcnospamglobal.net

[Jeff Meininger]

In article >,
"Jim Burns" > writes:

> http://www.mooneypilots.com/m20E.html
>
> maybe you've already seen this article.

[and from another reply...]

> or this model chronology
> http://www.mooneyevents.com/chrono.htm

Yeah, those MAPA "Flight Test Reports" and the chronology are
excellent resources for hard-to-find information. I came across
them before posting. It's actually those documents that prompted
my questions - for example, I wouldn't have known about the
different rudders if the M20E and M20F reports didn't have graphic
insets showing them.

In fact, I have one more question to add to my original list. :)

The M20F report has another graphic inset that states, "N353JT had
the 'twisted' wing seen on '67 F and G models. It did nothing for
the airplane's stall characteristics and was dropped in '68."

I can interpret this to mean two different things. I suppose it
doesn't really matter, as none of the reports indicate one model
having significantly different stall characteristics than another,
but I like to sweat the small stuff. :) For example, if I google
search for twisted-wing mooney, all I can find is a joke about
fueling them with a mason jar. I'm just left scratching my head
as to the differences between the wing styles.

:)

[Jeff Meininger]

Wow... that's excellent information. Thanks very much for your
reply.

I have one more question for you. Do you know of any practical
differences in the pre-'68 and '68+ F/G wing? The MAPA M20F
report says that the change was due to stall characteristics,
but this tidbit is provided right underneath a paragraph that
praises the pre-1968 plane's stall. Is one wing design faster,
better, or "safer" than the other? I'm guessing it's a non-
issue, but I sure do enjoy this kind of trivia. :)

[Dave Butler]

Jeff Meininger wrote:

> The M20F report has another graphic inset that states, "N353JT had
> the 'twisted' wing seen on '67 F and G models. It did nothing for
> the airplane's stall characteristics and was dropped in '68."
>
> I can interpret this to mean two different things. I suppose it
> doesn't really matter, as none of the reports indicate one model
> having significantly different stall characteristics than another,
> but I like to sweat the small stuff. :) For example, if I google
> search for twisted-wing mooney, all I can find is a joke about
> fueling them with a mason jar. I'm just left scratching my head
> as to the differences between the wing styles.

Don't know the facts on the different wings, but try googling for "wing
washout". It sounds like that's what thry're talking about.