Repairing fiberglass wheel pants

[Jay Honeck]

The fiberglass on our "Fancy Pants" main gear wheel pants has been
deteriorating for some time. The holes in the fiberglass through which the
dzu-type connectors pass are "wowed" out -- and now some of them are
completely broken out.

As a result, several of the metal backing plates have fallen off, and we
made our last flight today with just a single dzu connector holding the
right rear clamshell together. (Fancy pants are not single-piece units,
like the factory wheel pants, but two clamshells that connect together.)

I have removed the pants and taken them to my A&P, who is most comfortable
working with sheet metal. I suspect he will want to rivet a "stripe" of
sheet metal over the wowed out/broken holes, cover this with a thin "veneer"
of putty, re-drill the holes -- charge me a small fortune -- and pronounce
them airworthy once again.

I am wondering if this is the proper way to go. Can these things be
re-fiberglassed, or is that a lost cause? Is adding metal reinforcements
smart, or simply inviting failure in other parts of the pant?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Masino]

Other than what I suggested in my e-mail, you may want to call Laminar
Flow and ask them what they think. They may have an approved repair
method that they can suggest. Either way, I'd still do it myself.

--- Jay



--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Kyle Boatright]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:_9n4d.234979$Fg5.205968@attbi_s53...
> The fiberglass on our "Fancy Pants" main gear wheel pants has been
> deteriorating for some time. The holes in the fiberglass through which
> the
> dzu-type connectors pass are "wowed" out -- and now some of them are
> completely broken out.
>
> As a result, several of the metal backing plates have fallen off, and we
> made our last flight today with just a single dzu connector holding the
> right rear clamshell together. (Fancy pants are not single-piece units,
> like the factory wheel pants, but two clamshells that connect together.)
>
> I have removed the pants and taken them to my A&P, who is most comfortable
> working with sheet metal. I suspect he will want to rivet a "stripe" of
> sheet metal over the wowed out/broken holes, cover this with a thin
> "veneer"
> of putty, re-drill the holes -- charge me a small fortune -- and pronounce
> them airworthy once again.
>
> I am wondering if this is the proper way to go. Can these things be
> re-fiberglassed, or is that a lost cause? Is adding metal reinforcements
> smart, or simply inviting failure in other parts of the pant?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

You'd need to consult the FAR's to get the scoop, but I believe you can make
non-structural repairs yourself on things like wheel pants. As someone who
has worked with fiberglass (it is awful), I'd find a local EAA type who is
familiar with composite construction. S/he could probably take a look and
explain the repair process to you in 15 minutes. From what you describe,
you're probably looking at several 1-2 hour sessions to prep the pants, lay
up new glass, prepare the surface for paint, and then paint (which I'd hire
out). If you don't wanna do the work, take the pants to a local auto or
boat shop that handles fiberglass work and they will be able to take care of
it with no problem.

KB

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Can these things be re-fiberglassed, or is that a lost cause?

Fiberglass can be patched. The compound is a mix of epoxy and glass fibers and is a
bit of a mess to deal with. You can get it at any auto paint shop. Avoid buying it at
K-mart or auto parts stores, since it's likely to stay on the shelf too long there.
Apply it with the same sort of plastic applicators used for Bondo work or with putty
knives. Use disposable plastic gloves to avoid reaction to the epoxy.

Sand the existing structure with 60 grit or rougher paper in the places you want this
stuff to bond. Apply it, let it set two or three days, and sand smooth. If you let it
set up longer, it will be harder to sand -- sand too soon, and your paper will clog
up rapidly. The resulting surface will have lots of little pits. Take care of that
with Bondo. Use finer paper to sand down the Bondo. Finish with ~200 grit. The best
paper is some new stuff that Home Depot sells called Norton's 3X. Works fast.

> Is adding metal reinforcements
> smart, or simply inviting failure in other parts of the pant?

Adding metal reinforcements in the form of dimpled washers embedded in the glass to
keep the attachment hardware from punching through is, in my opinion, an excellent
idea.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Dude]

Take it to a boat shop. At worst you will need an AP to sign off on it. He
can inspect it before puttting it back on.




"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:_9n4d.234979$Fg5.205968@attbi_s53...
> The fiberglass on our "Fancy Pants" main gear wheel pants has been
> deteriorating for some time. The holes in the fiberglass through which
the
> dzu-type connectors pass are "wowed" out -- and now some of them are
> completely broken out.
>
> As a result, several of the metal backing plates have fallen off, and we
> made our last flight today with just a single dzu connector holding the
> right rear clamshell together. (Fancy pants are not single-piece units,
> like the factory wheel pants, but two clamshells that connect together.)
>
> I have removed the pants and taken them to my A&P, who is most comfortable
> working with sheet metal. I suspect he will want to rivet a "stripe" of
> sheet metal over the wowed out/broken holes, cover this with a thin
"veneer"
> of putty, re-drill the holes -- charge me a small fortune -- and pronounce
> them airworthy once again.
>
> I am wondering if this is the proper way to go. Can these things be
> re-fiberglassed, or is that a lost cause? Is adding metal reinforcements
> smart, or simply inviting failure in other parts of the pant?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Bruce Cunningham]

I repaired my cowling where the two halves fasten together around the
spinner. It can be quite time consuming to do it right so you won't
have to do it again! I learned as I went, and feel that anyone willing
to be patient can do it. The repairs have lasted 4 years now, with no
cracking. I suggest using either glass or better yet, Kevlar 49, and
a good epoxy resin. At highly stressed places, using just a filler
with no cloth imbedded, I found does not work well. It starts to crack
sooner rather than later. You may need to extend the cloth well into
the unbroken part of the pant to get enough strength, or even cut away
some of the remaining fiberglass so things fit well. If you're willing
to pay an experienced fiberglass man, that will work too, but to do it
right could cost more than a new pant, unless you do it yourself.

Regards,
Bruce Cunningham


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<_9n4d.234979$Fg5.205968@attbi_s53>...
> The fiberglass on our "Fancy Pants" main gear wheel pants has been
> deteriorating for some time. The holes in the fiberglass through which the
> dzu-type connectors pass are "wowed" out -- and now some of them are
> completely broken out.
>
> As a result, several of the metal backing plates have fallen off, and we
> made our last flight today with just a single dzu connector holding the
> right rear clamshell together. (Fancy pants are not single-piece units,
> like the factory wheel pants, but two clamshells that connect together.)
>
> I have removed the pants and taken them to my A&P, who is most comfortable
> working with sheet metal. I suspect he will want to rivet a "stripe" of
> sheet metal over the wowed out/broken holes, cover this with a thin "veneer"
> of putty, re-drill the holes -- charge me a small fortune -- and pronounce
> them airworthy once again.
>
> I am wondering if this is the proper way to go. Can these things be
> re-fiberglassed, or is that a lost cause? Is adding metal reinforcements
> smart, or simply inviting failure in other parts of the pant?

[Jay Honeck]

> Remember, I did glass repair, body work, and straight and custom
> painting for several years, so I can work pretty quickly. You might
> figure on doing a little at a time over a couple of weeks. Now is the
> best time of year to do this type of work because it is not excessively
> hot or humid. It is more comfortable for you to cover up more, and paint
> loves 75 degrees with 50% humidity.

Thanks for all the tips, Mike (and all).

My A&P is going to have a crack at them tomorrow, reinforcing the stressed
areas with sheet aluminum and re-drilling the holes.

He's estimating "no more than $1000" (ouch!), but I'm hoping for far less.
He's an experienced fiberglass and sheet metal guy, and new ones would cost
well over $2500.

These are the times that owning an airplane doesn't look quite as attractive
as renting...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:

> Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> > Can these things be re-fiberglassed, or is that a lost cause?
>
> Fiberglass can be patched. The compound is a mix of epoxy and glass fibers
> and is a
> bit of a mess to deal with. You can get it at any auto paint shop. Avoid
> buying it at
> K-mart or auto parts stores, since it's likely to stay on the shelf too long
> there.
> Apply it with the same sort of plastic applicators used for Bondo work or
> with putty
> knives. Use disposable plastic gloves to avoid reaction to the epoxy.
>
> Sand the existing structure with 60 grit or rougher paper in the places you
> want this
> stuff to bond. Apply it, let it set two or three days, and sand smooth. If
> you let it
> set up longer, it will be harder to sand -- sand too soon, and your paper
> will clog
> up rapidly. The resulting surface will have lots of little pits. Take care of
> that
> with Bondo. Use finer paper to sand down the Bondo. Finish with ~200 grit.
> The best
> paper is some new stuff that Home Depot sells called Norton's 3X. Works fast.
>
> > Is adding metal reinforcements
> > smart, or simply inviting failure in other parts of the pant?
>
> Adding metal reinforcements in the form of dimpled washers embedded in the
> glass to
> keep the attachment hardware from punching through is, in my opinion, an
> excellent
> idea.


CAUTION!

Make sure that you wear disposable gloves when handling epoxies, as the
stuff is toxic and cumulative.

Wash with COLD water and real soap, NOT detergent! The toxic ingredient
works like poison ivy -- you want the soap/water to keep ypur pores
closed when cleaning up. Detergents tend to dissolve it into your skin,
rather than allowing it to rinse off.

I have known Long-Eze builders who break out in a rash if you even
whisper "epoxy."

[Jay Masino]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> He's estimating "no more than $1000" (ouch!), but I'm hoping for far less.
> He's an experienced fiberglass and sheet metal guy, and new ones would cost
> well over $2500.

If a mechanic told me that it would be "no more than $1000" to fix wheel
pants, I'd go get them and take a crack at it, before he touches them.
Thats' just plain (or plane) crazy.

--- Jay



--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Jay Honeck]

> If a mechanic told me that it would be "no more than $1000" to fix wheel
> pants, I'd go get them and take a crack at it, before he touches them.
> Thats' just plain (or plane) crazy.

While I agree with you, the odds of me having days -- or even hours -- free
to take a crack at fixing them are slim and none.

:-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> While I agree with you, the odds of me having days -- or even hours --
free
> to take a crack at fixing them are slim and none.

Assuming that it IS OK for an owner to work on wheelpants themselves (as
it seems to be) then if I were you, I'd find a local composite aircraft
builder and offer to pay them to fix the pants. I bought prefabricated
wheel pants for my COZY MKIV for $250, and the repair you've described
would take me about 2-3 hours, max. Hell, if I lived anywhere near you,
I'd do it for nothing, just to see how the "certificated" wheel pants
were constructed.

$2500..... That's unbelievable..... Crap, even $1K is unbelievable.
If this guy things (at $60/hr) that it's going to take him 15 hours to
fix the pants, then he hasn't got a clue about composites.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

[Montblack]

("Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote)
> Assuming that it IS OK for an owner to work on wheelpants themselves (as
> it seems to be) then if I were you, I'd find a local composite aircraft
> builder and offer to pay them to fix the pants. I bought prefabricated
> wheel pants for my COZY MKIV for $250, and the repair you've described
> would take me about 2-3 hours, max. Hell, if I lived anywhere near you,
> I'd do it for nothing, just to see how the "certificated" wheel pants
> were constructed.
>
> $2500..... That's unbelievable..... Crap, even $1K is unbelievable.
> If this guy things (at $60/hr) that it's going to take him 15 hours to
> fix the pants, then he hasn't got a clue about composites.
>
> --
> Marc J. Zeitlin
> http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
> http://www.cozybuilders.org/


UPS? (Insured!!)

Oh. Plus painting?


Montblack <g>

[Don Hammer]

Slight word of warning from my glider repair experience - Most boats
and autos use polyester resin and not epoxy. Make sure you use the
same as the pants. Polyester on epoxy will not stick properly and
will eventually pop off. What you find in the auto/boat store called
fiberglass resin is usually polyester because it's much cheaper. If
you don't do it yourself, find someone who is familiar with aircraft
composits. The auto guy doing Corvettes won't get it and don't do a
metal repair to the glass.

I'm an old A&P who finds epoxy much easier to work with than metal,
especially for compound shapes. The skills are much easier to learn
if you are starting from scratch. If you do the repair yourself, the
rules are -

Use the same glass cloth
Use the same number of layers in the same direction
Use the same epoxy
Use bondo (also polyester) to fill pin holes only. I use epoxy with
cotton flox or microbaloons for filler.

As the pants aren't structural, you can probably bend these rules a
bit such as type and weave of cloth, but stay away from polyester. My
approach would be to "make the holes disappear" by grinding a wide
scarf joint then re-drilling the holes after the glass work. Mount
them with large washers to spread the load and you have a long-lasting
repair. Total glass work minus curing time and painting shouldn't be
more than a few hours for a skilled repairman.


On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:03:18 -0500, "Montblack"
> wrote:

>("Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote)
>> Assuming that it IS OK for an owner to work on wheelpants themselves (as
>> it seems to be) then if I were you, I'd find a local composite aircraft
>> builder and offer to pay them to fix the pants. I bought prefabricated
>> wheel pants for my COZY MKIV for $250, and the repair you've described
>> would take me about 2-3 hours, max. Hell, if I lived anywhere near you,
>> I'd do it for nothing, just to see how the "certificated" wheel pants
>> were constructed.
>>
>> $2500..... That's unbelievable..... Crap, even $1K is unbelievable.
>> If this guy things (at $60/hr) that it's going to take him 15 hours to
>> fix the pants, then he hasn't got a clue about composites.
>>
>> --
>> Marc J. Zeitlin
>> http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
>> http://www.cozybuilders.org/
>
>
>UPS? (Insured!!)
>
>Oh. Plus painting?
>
>
>Montblack <g>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>
> Make sure that you wear disposable gloves when handling epoxies, ....

If you read what I wrote, you'll see that I said that.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> He's estimating "no more than $1000" (ouch!), but I'm hoping for far less.
> He's an experienced fiberglass and sheet metal guy, and new ones would cost
> well over $2500.

You have a PA-28-235? Wag-Aero sells a set of three fairings with mounting hardware
for $782.00 for that plane. SKU #M-126-000. They don't have photos on the web, but
they probably will in their print catalog.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Aaron Coolidge]

G.R. Patterson III > wrote:
: You have a PA-28-235? Wag-Aero sells a set of three fairings with mounting hardware
: for $782.00 for that plane. SKU #M-126-000. They don't have photos on the web, but
: they probably will in their print catalog.

Jay's got neato cool aftermarket hi-speed wheel fairings, not the useless
stock Piper fairings as sold in wag-aero. Besides, I though they were $3600
for the pair (for the ones that Jay has).
--
Aaron Coolidge

[Michael]

"Marc J. Zeitlin" > wrote
> Assuming that it IS OK for an owner to work on wheelpants themselves

OK, reality check. First off, it's hard to argue that it's not.
Small simple repairs to nonstructural cowlings and fairings - spelled
out. And realistically - who will ever question it? If you have the
kind of IA who would have a problem with something like this at annual
- you need another IA.

> I'd find a local composite aircraft
> builder and offer to pay them to fix the pants.

Or anyone else with a clue. A fiberglass boat repair place comes to
mind.

> Crap, even $1K is unbelievable.
> If this guy things (at $60/hr) that it's going to take him 15 hours to
> fix the pants, then he hasn't got a clue about composites.

Of course he doesn't. What he gave is the "no-clue, never-done-it"
estimate. In other words - he gave an upper-bound estimate for how
long it should take someone who is reasonably knowledgeable in
aviation, but has no clue about this sort of repair to do the job.

I've had similar repairs done to my engine nacelle nose cowlings. I
believe I paid about $150. Of course the mechanic in question knew
how to work with fiberbglass - he was only working as an A&P in
retirement, and used to work on cars.

Michael

[G.R. Patterson III]

Aaron Coolidge wrote:
>
> Jay's got neato cool aftermarket hi-speed wheel fairings, not the useless
> stock Piper fairings as sold in wag-aero. Besides, I though they were $3600
> for the pair (for the ones that Jay has).

Ah! So this thread is really a variation of the "How much is 5 knots worth to you"
thread? I see. :-)

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Jay Honeck]

> Ah! So this thread is really a variation of the "How much is 5 knots worth
to you"
> thread? I see. :-)

EXACTLY!

However, the previous owner of our plane -- a friend of ours -- put every
known speed mod on it. Of all the mods he added, he states unequivocally
that the Fancy Pants were the single most effective addition to the plane
for picking up speed. He says they net him around 7 knots over the old
Piper pants, which is huge.

And, boy, let me tell you -- my plane looks positively goofy without those
wheel pants. Parking on the ramp now is like going to a black-tie affair
while wearing brown shoes....

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"