Piper Wing Lighting

[Jessewright8]

Has anyone had any experience with the 'skylight' brand of wing lighting? I
have never heard of it until today when I saw it in a flyer for Cherokee Pilots
Assoc. I have been looking at wingtip lighting... but it's pricey. The
skylight lighting is mounted into the leading edge, rather than the wingtips
and is about half the cost of the wingtip set up. Thanks.

Jesse
N4372X

[Jay Honeck]

> Has anyone had any experience with the 'skylight' brand of wing lighting?
> I
> have never heard of it until today when I saw it in a flyer for Cherokee
> Pilots
> Assoc. I have been looking at wingtip lighting... but it's pricey. The
> skylight lighting is mounted into the leading edge, rather than the
> wingtips
> and is about half the cost of the wingtip set up. Thanks.

They are a popular option for Cherokee Six, Pathfinder and Dakota drivers,
cuz our wing-tip gas tanks preclude the installation of the more common
wingtip landing lights.

I've been eying them longingly for the last couple of years, but have never
actually spoken with anyone who has them installed. The guy who makes them
is apparently very "old school," and he has neither email nor a website.

But the price is sure right. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who
has experience with them, too.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns]

Try asking one of the Piper groups or piperchat.com.

"Jessewright8" > wrote in message
...
> Has anyone had any experience with the 'skylight' brand of wing lighting?
I
> have never heard of it until today when I saw it in a flyer for Cherokee
Pilots
> Assoc. I have been looking at wingtip lighting... but it's pricey. The
> skylight lighting is mounted into the leading edge, rather than the
wingtips
> and is about half the cost of the wingtip set up. Thanks.
>
> Jesse
> N4372X


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004

[John Kunkel]

"Jessewright8" > wrote in message
...
> Has anyone had any experience with the 'skylight' brand of wing lighting?
I
> have never heard of it until today when I saw it in a flyer for Cherokee
Pilots
> Assoc. I have been looking at wingtip lighting... but it's pricey. The
> skylight lighting is mounted into the leading edge, rather than the
wingtips
> and is about half the cost of the wingtip set up. Thanks.

I installed a set on my Arrow II and have only good things to say about the
kit and the finished product.

[Aaron Coolidge]

Jay Honeck > wrote:

: I've been eying them longingly for the last couple of years, but have never
: actually spoken with anyone who has them installed. The guy who makes them
: is apparently very "old school," and he has neither email nor a website.

Jay, I have flown 2 different Arrows with these lights. They're really good.
One of these Arrows has the cowling landing light completely faired over.
That's probably good for another knot or two...
Both these airplanes have a split switch for the landing lights now. You can
run either the left, right, or both. Put some HID's in there, and they'll
last 5,000 hours to boot.
--
Aaron Coolidge

[Jay Honeck]

> I installed a set on my Arrow II and have only good things to say about
> the
> kit and the finished product.

How many hours did it take to install?

Do you have the split landing light switch now, or did you wire them to the
existing switch?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[John Kunkel]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:wyCgd.273450$wV.224048@attbi_s54...
> > I installed a set on my Arrow II and have only good things to say about
> > the
> > kit and the finished product.
>
> How many hours did it take to install?

I didn't keep track of the time; several days at a leisurely pace.

>
> Do you have the split landing light switch now, or did you wire them to
the
> existing switch?

The STC calls for leaving the existing cowl mounted light intact so I moved
things around to have the original switch power the cowl and the split
switch power the wing lights. All three turned on at idle would exceed the
alternator output.

[zatatime]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:07:37 GMT, "John Kunkel"
> wrote:

>All three turned on at idle would exceed the
>alternator output.


Doesn't that make your airplane "illegal" (technically speaking of
course).

I thought the total draw of an electrical system could not exceed 80%
of the output capacity of the alternator.

Am I incorrect, or is there more to this concept?

z

[Jay Masino]

zatatime > wrote:
>>All three turned on at idle would exceed the
>>alternator output.
> Doesn't that make your airplane "illegal" (technically speaking of
> course).
> I thought the total draw of an electrical system could not exceed 80%
> of the output capacity of the alternator.
> Am I incorrect, or is there more to this concept?

The way it was explained to me, once upon a time, was... Landing/Taxi
lights are considered "intermitant loads" and are not added in for the 80%
load calculation. Same goes for pitot heat. In fact, when you're adding
up your loads, you only add the receive power draw for your Com radios,
and not the transmit power draw.

--- Jay

--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[zatatime]

On 30 Oct 2004 21:18:02 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote:

>The way it was explained to me, once upon a time, was... Landing/Taxi
>lights are considered "intermitant loads" and are not added in for the 80%
>load calculation. Same goes for pitot heat. In fact, when you're adding
>up your loads, you only add the receive power draw for your Com radios,
>and not the transmit power draw.


Thanks. Intermttent not being counted makes sense to me.

Thanks for the info.

z

[Jessewright8]

>I moved
>things around to have the original switch power the cowl and the split
>switch power the wing lights.

Do I understand this right.. after installing the kit, each wing light is
controlled independently from each other. Does the STC allow you to substitute
a "standard" type single switch in lieu of the split switch?

Jesse
N4372X

[[email protected]]

Jay Masino > wrote:
: The way it was explained to me, once upon a time, was... Landing/Taxi
: lights are considered "intermitant loads" and are not added in for the 80%
: load calculation. Same goes for pitot heat. In fact, when you're adding
: up your loads, you only add the receive power draw for your Com radios,
: and not the transmit power draw.

I just did the power budget on my Cherokee after installing a whole panel of
equipment. It's amazingly vague how one is supposed to calculate that stuff. I would
consider landing/taxi lights and landing gear operation (A friend has electric-gear'd
Comanche) "intermittent loads"... also probably the Tx on the COM (perhaps even
adjusted to the 20% duty cycle rated for the radios). I would *NOT* consider pitot
heat an intermittent load. I want that to be able to run whenever I need it.... even
if I shouldn't be in that situation to begin with. It'd rate it right up there with
carb heat for continuous operation.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[John Kunkel]

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:07:37 GMT, "John Kunkel"
> > wrote:
>
> >All three turned on at idle would exceed the
> >alternator output.
>
>
> Doesn't that make your airplane "illegal" (technically speaking of
> course).
>
> I thought the total draw of an electrical system could not exceed 80%
> of the output capacity of the alternator.
>
> Am I incorrect, or is there more to this concept?

The operative phrase is "at idle". At cruise rpm the alternator would carry
the load quite well.

[Jay Masino]

wrote:
> adjusted to the 20% duty cycle rated for the radios). I would *NOT* consider pitot
> heat an intermittent load. I want that to be able to run whenever I need it.... even
> if I shouldn't be in that situation to begin with. It'd rate it right up there with
> carb heat for continuous operation.

You can still operate it "whenever you need it" and it still be considered
"intermitant", because you don't operate it on every flight. The worse
thing that happens is that you pull the extra electical power out of the
battery for a little while. That said, it's alway nicer to have all the
alternator capacity you need in every situation.

--- Jay



--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Ray Andraka]

Jay,

I put them on my Six back in '97. They are great, especially on a Six since
the pavement illuminated by the stock nose light is mostly obscured by the long
nose. Yes the parts are cheaper than the replacement tips, but you'll make up
the difference in the install labor. As I recall, the install was about 20
hours. They come with Q4509 lamps, which last a long time in the tips. I've
only replaced one bulb in some 800 hours, and I have them on flash on every
flight.

My install is a bit unique. The lights come with a split rocker switch that is
marked L and R, intended to connect to each wing light so you can control them
independently. The recognition flasher comes with an additional switch, and it
essentially connects electrical switches in parallel with the L and R
switches. If you follow the STC wiring, you have to add two new switches to
your panel. On mine, we added a pair of Piper relays under the seat in place
of the L and R switches in the supplied connection diagram. The L-R switch
supplied was put in the panel in the place of the original landing light
switch. The L side is connected to the existing nose light circuit, and also
to the coil on both of the added relays so that when L is on, all 3 lights come
on (L=landing light). The R side of the switch is connected to the recognition
flasher box, so when it is on and the L side is off, the wingtips alternate and
the nose remains off (R=recognition). Each light has it's own pullable
breaker so I can individually turn off lights if I need to (although the nose
light has to be on to turn on the wing lights since the nose circuit powers the
relays). The advantage is one switch operates all the lights and there are no
new switch holes to make in the panel (the split L-R rocker switch matches the
original grey rocker switches in size and shape).

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > Has anyone had any experience with the 'skylight' brand of wing lighting?
> > I
> > have never heard of it until today when I saw it in a flyer for Cherokee
> > Pilots
> > Assoc. I have been looking at wingtip lighting... but it's pricey. The
> > skylight lighting is mounted into the leading edge, rather than the
> > wingtips
> > and is about half the cost of the wingtip set up. Thanks.
>
> They are a popular option for Cherokee Six, Pathfinder and Dakota drivers,
> cuz our wing-tip gas tanks preclude the installation of the more common
> wingtip landing lights.
>
> I've been eying them longingly for the last couple of years, but have never
> actually spoken with anyone who has them installed. The guy who makes them
> is apparently very "old school," and he has neither email nor a website.
>
> But the price is sure right. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who
> has experience with them, too.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Ray Andraka]

You can't wire all 3 lights to one switch without relays. The switch can't
handle the current. The switches are rated for 10 or 15A.

Jay Honeck wrote:

> > I installed a set on my Arrow II and have only good things to say about
> > the
> > kit and the finished product.
>
> How many hours did it take to install?
>
> Do you have the split landing light switch now, or did you wire them to the
> existing switch?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Ray Andraka]

It's 80% of the max alternator output current. Mine just barely came under
the 80% when they were installed, but then I later added an autopilot which
brought it over the 80%. The avionics shop got around it by adding a placard
stating something to the effect that the autopilot may not be engaged with the
landing lights on.


Jay Masino wrote:

> zatatime > wrote:
> >>All three turned on at idle would exceed the
> >>alternator output.
> > Doesn't that make your airplane "illegal" (technically speaking of
> > course).
> > I thought the total draw of an electrical system could not exceed 80%
> > of the output capacity of the alternator.
> > Am I incorrect, or is there more to this concept?
>
> The way it was explained to me, once upon a time, was... Landing/Taxi
> lights are considered "intermitant loads" and are not added in for the 80%
> load calculation. Same goes for pitot heat. In fact, when you're adding
> up your loads, you only add the receive power draw for your Com radios,
> and not the transmit power draw.
>
> --- Jay
>
> --
> __!__
> Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
> http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
> http://www.oceancityairport.com
> http://www.oc-adolfos.com

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

[Ray Andraka]

Not really. Two lamps exceed the current capacity of the switch. You could use a
similar switch that has two poles operated by a single rocker to control the wing
lights, but the nose light would still have to be separate. The other option is to
use relays actuated by the nose light circuit like I did on mine. The relays are
piper relays rated for continuous use. I believe they are the same part number as
the avionics master relay.

Jessewright8 wrote:

> >I moved
> >things around to have the original switch power the cowl and the split
> >switch power the wing lights.
>
> Do I understand this right.. after installing the kit, each wing light is
> controlled independently from each other. Does the STC allow you to substitute
> a "standard" type single switch in lieu of the split switch?
>
> Jesse
> N4372X

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759