Aztec Flap Tube AD and related Service Bulletin

[zatatime]

Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
copy that was mailed to them.

TIA.
z

[Jim Burns]

I've found it almost impossible to find Piper's SB's online.

When we bought our Aztec, the AD had been complied with by replacing the
torque tube. I'll look through our logs in the next day or two to see if
there is a copy of the SB.

If I recall correctly, the AD calls for inspections every 500(?) hours to
check for cracks in the ends of the tubes. I also believe it calls for
replacing the wooden plugs in the ends of the tubes with plastic plugs. It
requires removing the tube from the aircraft no matter if you inspect it or
replace it, however, if you go the replacement route, you can save
time/labor on the removal process with help from a sawzall. I've had quotes
of around $2000 including labor to replace the tube.

There is another local Aztec owner who is also an A&P / AI, I'm sure he'll
have a copy of the SB, it's just tough getting in touch with him.

Jim

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
> what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
> have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
> figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
> understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
> copy that was mailed to them.
>
> TIA.
> z


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[Jim Burns]

http://piperchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17&sid=0e39b3fe8fd103b46fef0759878e1888

Here's a link to a similar question.

Jim

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
> what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
> have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
> figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
> understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
> copy that was mailed to them.
>
> TIA.
> z


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[zatatime]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:15:31 -0500, "Jim Burns"
> wrote:

>I've found it almost impossible to find Piper's SB's online.
>
At least it isn't me....Not sure why they don't just put them on the
website like I've seen others do.

>When we bought our Aztec, the AD had been complied with by replacing the
>torque tube. I'll look through our logs in the next day or two to see if
>there is a copy of the SB.
>
Thanks, but don't go through too much trouble. You pretty much
answered the initial question I had below.

>If I recall correctly, the AD calls for inspections every 500(?) hours to
>check for cracks in the ends of the tubes. I also believe it calls for
>replacing the wooden plugs in the ends of the tubes with plastic plugs.
You are correct. I found this in the AD.

> It
>requires removing the tube from the aircraft no matter if you inspect it or
>replace it, however, if you go the replacement route, you can save
>time/labor on the removal process with help from a sawzall.
This is the info I was looking for. I didn't know if you could do the
inspection with the tube in the airplane.

Since you need to pull the tube for inspection it almost makes sense
to just replace it. You'll save some on labor, and never have to do
it again (in theory).

>I've had quotes
>of around $2000 including labor to replace the tube.
>
Ouch! The AD says $480.00 for labor and $572 for parts. I know those
numbers are bogus, but I didn't know they were at a 50% discount!

>There is another local Aztec owner who is also an A&P / AI, I'm sure he'll
>have a copy of the SB, it's just tough getting in touch with him.
>
>Jim

Thank you very much for the reply. You got me started in the right
direction. If you do find the SB great; if not I'll keep digging.

Thanks again for the help.

z

[Louis L. Perley III]

zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
> what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
> have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
> figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
> understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
> copy that was mailed to them.
>
> TIA.
> z

In the process of going through this on my Aztec as well, they were going to
pull the torque tube yesterday and do the inspection. Depending on what the
replacement torque tube cost, I figured I'd just have them put in the
replacement, which only needs to be checked every 2500 hours, not every 500
with the currently installed one. I'm also told that they replace the wood
caps with plastic since the wood could absorb water and cause corrosion. I
see the various costs quoted in earlier replies, I'll post what my mechanic
tells me, they're almost done with the annual and I should have a squawk
list to go over with them this coming Monday or Tuesday. SO far things are
looking pretty fair, some leaks that need new seals, etc. They did see that
the brakes were rubbing the inside of the tires pretty bad, so I'm not sure
if the previous owner had the wrong tires on or if I'm missing a shim
somewhere. Engine compressions were all in the 70s which was good to hear as
well. I'll post a report on my annual if anyone is interested. This is the
first one for the Aztec since I bought it.

--
Louis L. Perley III
N46000 - C152
N370 - PA-23-250

[Jim Burns]

Found the SB but ours is SB 1051A dated Oct 9 2001, not 1051B It is
instructions for replacement of the torque tube.

Jim

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
> what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
> have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
> figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
> understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
> copy that was mailed to them.
>
> TIA.
> z


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[Jim Burns]

Tires should be 700 x 6 8 plys for the mains and 600 x 6 6 plys for the
nose.... guess how I know?.... The previous owner had the wrong tires on
ours too! 6 ply mains instead of 8 plys and retreads are tough to find.
Jim

"Louis L. Perley III" > wrote in message
...
> zatatime" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
> > what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
> > have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
> > figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
> > understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
> > copy that was mailed to them.
> >
> > TIA.
> > z
>
> In the process of going through this on my Aztec as well, they were going
to
> pull the torque tube yesterday and do the inspection. Depending on what
the
> replacement torque tube cost, I figured I'd just have them put in the
> replacement, which only needs to be checked every 2500 hours, not every
500
> with the currently installed one. I'm also told that they replace the wood
> caps with plastic since the wood could absorb water and cause corrosion. I
> see the various costs quoted in earlier replies, I'll post what my
mechanic
> tells me, they're almost done with the annual and I should have a squawk
> list to go over with them this coming Monday or Tuesday. SO far things are
> looking pretty fair, some leaks that need new seals, etc. They did see
that
> the brakes were rubbing the inside of the tires pretty bad, so I'm not
sure
> if the previous owner had the wrong tires on or if I'm missing a shim
> somewhere. Engine compressions were all in the 70s which was good to hear
as
> well. I'll post a report on my annual if anyone is interested. This is the
> first one for the Aztec since I bought it.
>
> --
> Louis L. Perley III
> N46000 - C152
> N370 - PA-23-250
>
>


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[Scott Skylane]

zatatime wrote:
> Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
> what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
> have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
> figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
> understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
> copy that was mailed to them.
>
> TIA.
> z


I have posted the text of S.B. 1051B here:

http://homepage.mac.com/scottdb/FileSharing7.html

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

[zatatime]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:02:40 -0600, "Louis L. Perley III"
> wrote:

>I'll post a report on my annual if anyone is interested. This is the
>first one for the Aztec since I bought it.


Thanks for the info. A re-cap post would be great. I don't have much
experience with Aztec's but will definately be getting my feet wet
over the next couple weeks.

z

[zatatime]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:53:55 -0800, Scott Skylane
> wrote:

>zatatime wrote:
>> Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B? It is
>> what the Aztec falp tube AD refers to for compliance (2003-09-18?). I
>> have not been able to find it on-line. I'm trying to help someone
>> figure out the best way to comply, but if I can't read it I can't
>> understand what is required. Unfortunately, they did not keep the
>> copy that was mailed to them.
>>
>> TIA.
>> z
>
>
>I have posted the text of S.B. 1051B here:
>
>http://homepage.mac.com/scottdb/FileSharing7.html
>
>Happy Flying!
>Scott Skylane
>N92054


Thank you Mr. Skylane! Printing it now and will read it later
tonight. Hopefully the illustrations aren't too important.

Appreciate the time to put this up!

z

[Louis L. Perley III]

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Tires should be 700 x 6 8 plys for the mains and 600 x 6 6 plys for the
> nose.... guess how I know?.... The previous owner had the wrong tires on
> ours too! 6 ply mains instead of 8 plys and retreads are tough to find.
> Jim
>

Don't know much about tires, but what does the number of ply's reference? I
thought it was just some extra layers of rubber (presumably because they're
holding more weight?) I know when I put my C152 back together that it used
6x6.00 6 ply, but hadn't thought much about it. So I guess the question is,
what does the number of ply's measure on an aircraft tire? Why would having
a lower ply count rub on the brakes while a higher number does not? What
year Aztec do/did you own Jim? I thought Kyler Laird was the only other
Aztec owner that regularly posts on the group.

--
Louis L. Perley III
N46000 - C152
N370 - PA-23-250

[Kyler Laird]

zatatime > writes:

>Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B?

http://www.caa-rs.si/images/pripone/74732_ad_sb_Piper_MSB_1051B.pdf
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgADNPRM.nsf/0/5FC1DCE2730E25F786256CBB0051F4FA?OpenDocument
http://www.tdatacorp.com/03-09-13.HTM

I've got a paper copy around here somewhere. I complied with it
years ago.

--kyler

[Jim Burns]

>but what does the number of ply's reference? I
> thought it was just some extra layers of rubber (presumably because
they're
> holding more weight?)

Exactly.

>Why would having
> a lower ply count rub on the brakes while a higher number does not?

Ours didn't rub, they were just too light of tires for the job. The POH
calls for 8 plys.


>What
> year Aztec do/did you own Jim? I thought Kyler Laird was the only other
> Aztec owner that regularly posts on the group.

1966 C model non turbo
We bought it in August.

Jim


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[zatatime]

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:08:04 GMT, Kyler Laird
> wrote:

>zatatime > writes:
>
>>Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B?
>
> http://www.caa-rs.si/images/pripone/74732_ad_sb_Piper_MSB_1051B.pdf
> http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgADNPRM.nsf/0/5FC1DCE2730E25F786256CBB0051F4FA?OpenDocument
> http://www.tdatacorp.com/03-09-13.HTM
>
>I've got a paper copy around here somewhere. I complied with it
>years ago.
>
>--kyler


Thanks! I had the Tdata link and the AD itself. Now I've got a pdf
of the SB and I'm psyched! Thank you for posting this for me.

z

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Louis L. Perley III" wrote:
>
> Don't know much about tires, but what does the number of ply's reference?

A tire is built up of layers of some sort of fabric (called the cord). A heavy layer
of rubber is then applied over the cord and tread is molded into the rubber. The
number of plys is the number of layers of this fabric. If the layers of fabric are
applied diagonally across the tire, it's called a "bias-ply" tire. If they are
applied perpendicular to the tread, it's called a "radial" tire. Automobile tires are
usually also "belted", which means that additional layers of some sort of material
are laid between the plys in the same direction as the tread.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Steven]

My 2 cents. We complied with the AD by putting in the new torque tube.
drilled it at the mechanical facility at the FBO and reinstalled it.
Airplane flew wing down and yawed left and right depending on the amount of
flaps. Took it out and examined and reinstalled to no effect.
Obtained an second new torque tube and had a machine shop drill it out and
then installed.
Airplane is in a slip at cruise and yaws with flaps. factory and dealer of
no help.
So.........while practicing approach to landing stalls, the aircraft
suddenly fills with mist. The gear are down and locked. The mist appeared
when lowering flaps. You got it . The torque tube had impinged on the
aileron cable, placed it under tension, caused sideslip in the aircraft and
also caused the aileron cable to saw through the hard aluminum hydraulic
line leading to the flaps.
I do not know that there is a moral to the story. Flying airplanes is
expensive.
"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:08:04 GMT, Kyler Laird
> > wrote:
>
>>zatatime > writes:
>>
>>>Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B?
>>
>> http://www.caa-rs.si/images/pripone/74732_ad_sb_Piper_MSB_1051B.pdf
>> http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgADNPRM.nsf/0/5FC1DCE2730E25F786256CBB0051F4FA?OpenDocument
>> http://www.tdatacorp.com/03-09-13.HTM
>>
>>I've got a paper copy around here somewhere. I complied with it
>>years ago.
>>
>>--kyler
>
>
> Thanks! I had the Tdata link and the AD itself. Now I've got a pdf
> of the SB and I'm psyched! Thank you for posting this for me.
>
> z

[Jim Burns]

I'd be extremely interested in a report on your Aztec's annual!!! Thanks!
What year/model?
Jim



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[zatatime]

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 20:10:48 -0800, "Jim Burns"
> wrote:

>I'd be extremely interested in a report on your Aztec's annual!!! Thanks!
>What year/model?
>Jim
>
>
>
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>


It's an F model. I don't know the year. I don't own it, my friend
does. Since it's getting cold and he keeps it on a grass strip, he's
now thinking of letting it sit until winter passes. He's undecided,
but when it happens I give a report.

z

[Jeffrey Ross]

I'll add my $0.02 as well... last April when my Aztec came due for its
annual ('69 D model) I considered the price of the tube and the labor
involved in pulling to tube to inspect it, and redoing the inspection
ever 500 hrs I decided to be done with it an just replace the tube.

Here's where the fun began...Tube arrives, the mechanic looks closely at
the instructions lays it out as per the instructions and first thing he
notices is if you lined up the bell cranks with the curf cut as
instructed, the flaps will not line up properly. turns out when Piper
built the plane they drilled the hole wrong or cut the curf wrong or
something. Ok, no problem, he rotated the bell crank a few degrees (the
hole needed to be moved about 1/16" of an inch) lines the ends up flush
and drills and reams out the hold.

goes to put the tube in the airplane and finds out that the new tube is
about 1/16" of an inch shorter than the original tube and won't fit in
the bearing blocks, and is now trash.

Second tube comes from the distributer in a FedEx tube, tube arrives
with a 2" hole punched through the bottom and no torque tube.

Third tube comes from the distributer, this time the torque tube is
still inside (barely) and is successfully installed.

In other words remember that these planes were really built one at a
time and the instructions are just a guide but not always definitive.

Jeff

Steven wrote:
> My 2 cents. We complied with the AD by putting in the new torque tube.
> drilled it at the mechanical facility at the FBO and reinstalled it.
> Airplane flew wing down and yawed left and right depending on the amount of
> flaps. Took it out and examined and reinstalled to no effect.
> Obtained an second new torque tube and had a machine shop drill it out and
> then installed.
> Airplane is in a slip at cruise and yaws with flaps. factory and dealer of
> no help.
> So.........while practicing approach to landing stalls, the aircraft
> suddenly fills with mist. The gear are down and locked. The mist appeared
> when lowering flaps. You got it . The torque tube had impinged on the
> aileron cable, placed it under tension, caused sideslip in the aircraft and
> also caused the aileron cable to saw through the hard aluminum hydraulic
> line leading to the flaps.
> I do not know that there is a moral to the story. Flying airplanes is
> expensive.
> "zatatime" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:08:04 GMT, Kyler Laird
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>zatatime > writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Can anyone point me to a link for Piper Service Bulletin 1051B?
>>>
>>>http://www.caa-rs.si/images/pripone/74732_ad_sb_Piper_MSB_1051B.pdf
>>>http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgADNPRM.nsf/0/5FC1DCE2730E25F786256CBB0051F4FA?OpenDocument
>>>http://www.tdatacorp.com/03-09-13.HTM
>>>
>>>I've got a paper copy around here somewhere. I complied with it
>>>years ago.
>>>
>>>--kyler
>>
>>
>>Thanks! I had the Tdata link and the AD itself. Now I've got a pdf
>>of the SB and I'm psyched! Thank you for posting this for me.
>>
>>z
>
>
>

[zatatime]

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:13:28 -0500, Jeffrey Ross >
wrote:

>In other words remember that these planes were really built one at a
>time and the instructions are just a guide but not always definitive.
>
>Jeff


Sheeesh, that was more like a nickel, not just two cents!!! Maybe
even a cuople thousand dollars by the time you add up everything from
your post! ;) Boy do I hope this is not the norm, and that you only
paid for one tube!

Thanks for the input, will be very vigillant when taking care of this.

z

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

Jeffrey Ross > writes:

> I'll add my $0.02 as well... last April when my Aztec came due for its
> annual ('69 D model) I considered the price of the tube and the labor
> involved in pulling to tube to inspect it, and redoing the inspection
> ever 500 hrs I decided to be done with it an just replace the tube.
> [...]

Likewise.

> In other words remember that these planes were really built one at a
> time and the instructions are just a guide but not always definitive.
> [...]

The mechanics doing this work on my birdie decided to remove the old
torque tube and send it along with its blank replacement to a CNC
machine shop, in order to exactly duplicate the old one's drilling
pattern.

- FChE