Logging oil changes

[[email protected]]

As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this endeavor, I
find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.

I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.

I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if the
oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log book
doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to rest.)
All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
hour intervals, but they don't log it.

Do you log oil changes?

[Newps]

wrote:
> As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this endeavor, I
> find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.
>
> I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.
>
> I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if the
> oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log book
> doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to rest.)
> All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
> hour intervals, but they don't log it.
>
> Do you log oil changes?

You're required to. If it's not logged it's not done.

[G.R. Patterson III]

" wrote:
>
> Do you log oil changes?

Yes.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[NW_PILOT]

" > wrote in message
link.net...
> As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this endeavor,
I
> find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.
>
> I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.
>
> I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if
the
> oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log
book
> doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to
rest.)
> All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
> hour intervals, but they don't log it.
>
> Do you log oil changes?
>
>

When I was looking for an airplane. I had a guy give me an excuse why no oil
changes were logged during his ownership! He said it burnt 1 QT every 4 to 5
hours so in 25 hours it did not need one because he put about 5 QT's in it
during that 25 hours. I could not help but to start laughing turn around and
walk back to my car.

[Bob Noel]

In article . net>,
" > wrote:

> Do you log oil changes?

yes.

--
Bob Noel

[tony roberts]

I log the oil change, and log that the oil sample was sent for analysis.
And I keep all of the oil analysis reports

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE




In article . net>,
" > wrote:

> As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this endeavor, I
> find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.
>
> I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.
>
> I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if the
> oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log book
> doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to rest.)
> All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
> hour intervals, but they don't log it.
>
> Do you log oil changes?

[dave]

I would guess that if they're not logging the changes that they're not
doing the changes. All my oil changes are logged by the mechanic. Why
wouldn't someone log the change? Frequent oil changes are a plus not a
minus.

Dave
68 7ECA

wrote:

> As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this endeavor, I
> find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.
>
> I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.
>
> I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if the
> oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log book
> doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to rest.)
> All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
> hour intervals, but they don't log it.
>
> Do you log oil changes?
>
>

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"NW_PILOT" > writes:

> When I was looking for an airplane. I had a guy give me an excuse
> why no oil changes were logged during his ownership! He said it
> burnt 1 QT every 4 to 5 hours so in 25 hours [...]

Did he instead log each addition those quarts of oil? In Canada, such
"elementary work" is required to be logged, and so is "preventive
maintenance" in the US (FAR 43.9).

- FChE

[NW_PILOT]

No, only oil changes that were logged were at annual inspection points in
his logs.


"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
>
> "NW_PILOT" > writes:
>
> > When I was looking for an airplane. I had a guy give me an excuse
> > why no oil changes were logged during his ownership! He said it
> > burnt 1 QT every 4 to 5 hours so in 25 hours [...]
>
> Did he instead log each addition those quarts of oil? In Canada, such
> "elementary work" is required to be logged, and so is "preventive
> maintenance" in the US (FAR 43.9).
>
> - FChE

[ShawnD2112]

I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25 hr or
6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record in case I
decide to sell the airplane.

Shawn
Pitts S-1D, G-BKVP
" > wrote in message
link.net...
> As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this endeavor,
> I
> find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.
>
> I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.
>
> I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if
> the
> oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log
> book
> doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to
> rest.)
> All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
> hour intervals, but they don't log it.
>
> Do you log oil changes?
>
>

[Jay Masino]

ShawnD2112 > wrote:
> I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25 hr or
> 6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record in case I
> decide to sell the airplane.

Right after I bought my plane, many years ago, I purposely "synchronized"
my oil changes to an exact multiple of 25 hours on the tach (3325, 3350,
3375, etc). Now, every time I see the tach getting close to a multiple of
25, I know the oil change it due, without pulling out my logs.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Newps]

ShawnD2112 wrote:
> I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25 hr or
> 6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record in case I
> decide to sell the airplane.
>

Go to Office Depot and get those little one inch diameter round stick on
tabs. You see them as price tags at garage sales. Write the date and
tach time for the next oil change. That way you can simply compare the
tach time to the time on the tag. Tag comes right off when you want to
replace it with a new one.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Masino wrote:
>
> Right after I bought my plane, many years ago, I purposely "synchronized"
> my oil changes to an exact multiple of 25 hours on the tach (3325, 3350,
> 3375, etc). Now, every time I see the tach getting close to a multiple of
> 25, I know the oil change it due, without pulling out my logs.

That's clever, and it's a good solution if you fly often enough. In my case, however,
the change intervals are 50 hours or 4 months, whichever comes first. Since I don't
fly 50 hours in 4 months, I'm stuck checking the calendar to see when it's due.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Ron Natalie]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> ShawnD2112 wrote:
>
>> I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25
>> hr or 6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record
>> in case I decide to sell the airplane.
>>
>
> Go to Office Depot and get those little one inch diameter round stick on
> tabs. You see them as price tags at garage sales. Write the date and
> tach time for the next oil change.

I think I'll go over to the Jiffy Lube accross the street and get some of
those plastic (non-adhesive) stickers they stick on car windshields to remind
people of their next oil change. That should inspire confidence in the
passengers.

[[email protected]]

My thoughts exactly, Dave.
"dave" > wrote in message
...
> I would guess that if they're not logging the changes that they're not
> doing the changes. All my oil changes are logged by the mechanic. Why
> wouldn't someone log the change? Frequent oil changes are a plus not a
> minus.
>
> Dave
> 68 7ECA
>
> wrote:
>
> > As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this
endeavor, I
> > find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.
> >
> > I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.
> >
> > I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if
the
> > oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log
book
> > doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to
rest.)
> > All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
> > hour intervals, but they don't log it.
> >
> > Do you log oil changes?
> >
> >

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Masino wrote:

> ShawnD2112 > wrote:
>
>>I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25 hr or
>>6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record in case I
>>decide to sell the airplane.
>
>
> Right after I bought my plane, many years ago, I purposely "synchronized"
> my oil changes to an exact multiple of 25 hours on the tach (3325, 3350,
> 3375, etc). Now, every time I see the tach getting close to a multiple of
> 25, I know the oil change it due, without pulling out my logs.

Yes, I do the same with my road vehicles. I change every 5,000 miles as
it is easy to remember. Fortunately, or maybe not given current gas
prices, I drive enough that I virtually never have to worry about too
much time passing between changes.

Matt

[Carl Orton]

On my 172, I have an O-300D with the larger engine access door. I write the
hours and date on the oil filter when it was changed - that way, each time I
open the access door, I'm reminded of the time for next oil change.

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
k...
>I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25 hr
>or 6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record in case
>I decide to sell the airplane.
>
> Shawn
> Pitts S-1D, G-BKVP
> " > wrote in message
> link.net...
>> As some of you know, I'm in the market for an airplane. To this
>> endeavor, I
>> find myself reading through a lot of maintenance log books.
>>
>> I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.
>>
>> I'm a little worried about the owners who don't because I don't know if
>> the
>> oil is ever changes or not. (Yes, I know that it just being in the log
>> book
>> doesn't mean it is actually done, but it does a lot to put my mind to
>> rest.)
>> All the owners I've talked to claim that they do oil changes in 25 or 50
>> hour intervals, but they don't log it.
>>
>> Do you log oil changes?
>>
>>
>
>

[Greg Hopp]

Yes we log our oil changes. My partner and I keep a log in the plane
(which is actually an Excel SS) in which we record the pilot, date,
tach start/stop & hobbs start/stop times & flight hours. I use this
to generate an invoice for both of us each month by transcribing what
we've written down into the SS. Formulas calculate the rate x hrs
flown. I also have a tab that keeps track of our hours flown year to
date and percentage of flying by partner.

In the lower right corner I enter the tach time at oil change. The
next cell down I enter the interval (40 hrs) and the cell below that
is simply the two cells added together to show when the next oil
change is due.

If anyone is interested in my SS, I'd be happy to share it. There is
some data entry involved, but I enjoy my personal race to the next
"level" of hourly experience, such as 200, 250, 275 hrs, etc.

Greg H.
N4691X

ghopp @ no.spam ohliqdotcom

[ShawnD2112]

That's a pretty clever idea, actually. Given how little I've been flying
lately, that's probably a more practical idea for me than matching up with
the tacho, although that's a good idea as well.

Given the real cost of the oil, it's chump change, and worth doing according
to the oil and engine manufacturer's recommendations.

Cheers,
Shawn
"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> ShawnD2112 wrote:
>> I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25 hr
>> or 6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record in
>> case I decide to sell the airplane.
>>
>
> Go to Office Depot and get those little one inch diameter round stick on
> tabs. You see them as price tags at garage sales. Write the date and
> tach time for the next oil change. That way you can simply compare the
> tach time to the time on the tag. Tag comes right off when you want to
> replace it with a new one.

[Ron Natalie]

>>
>>Go to Office Depot and get those little one inch diameter round stick on
>>tabs. You see them as price tags at garage sales. Write the date and
>>tach time for the next oil change. That way you can simply compare the
>>tach time to the time on the tag. Tag comes right off when you want to
>>replace it with a new one.
>
http://www.dealersupplyonline.com/ and click on Lube Stickers.
$29.95 gets you a life time supply of date/mileage (ok, use hours here)/
Oil Grade static cling stickers.

[Ron Natalie]

>>
>>Go to Office Depot and get those little one inch diameter round stick on
>>tabs. You see them as price tags at garage sales. Write the date and
>>tach time for the next oil change. That way you can simply compare the
>>tach time to the time on the tag. Tag comes right off when you want to
>>replace it with a new one.
>
http://www.dealersupplyonline.com/ and click on Lube Stickers.
$29.95 gets you a life time supply of date/mileage (ok, use hours here)/
Oil Grade static cling stickers.

[Dan Thompson]

Go to Jiffy Lube, get an oil change, ask the tech if you can have about a
dozen of his stickers. That's almost a lifetime supply for free. Nothing
like a Jiffy Lube sticker in your plane to show you care.

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
...
>
>>>
>>>Go to Office Depot and get those little one inch diameter round stick on
>>>tabs. You see them as price tags at garage sales. Write the date and
>>>tach time for the next oil change. That way you can simply compare the
>>>tach time to the time on the tag. Tag comes right off when you want to
>>>replace it with a new one.
>>
> http://www.dealersupplyonline.com/ and click on Lube Stickers.
> $29.95 gets you a life time supply of date/mileage (ok, use hours here)/
> Oil Grade static cling stickers.

[Henry and Debbie McFarland]

dave" > wrote in message
...>I would guess that if they're not
logging the changes that they're not
> doing the changes. All my oil changes are logged by the mechanic. Why
> wouldn't someone log the change? Frequent oil changes are a plus not a
> minus.
>
> Dave
> 68 7ECA

We don't log ours in the regular logbook. We keep a separate one just for
oil changes. We also add if screens and filters were changed, and I also
include if oil (and how much) was added between changes. This helps us keep
a close track on oil consumption. We use a separate log because we change
every 25 hours, and I fly about 150 a year. It takes alot of pages in the
little logbooks.

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

[Nathan Young]

On 15 Nov 2004 18:16:49 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote:

>ShawnD2112 > wrote:
>> I do log oil changes, otherwise I wouldn't know when to do the next 25 hr or
>> 6 month change. Also, I want to have a good maintenance record in case I
>> decide to sell the airplane.
>
>Right after I bought my plane, many years ago, I purposely "synchronized"
>my oil changes to an exact multiple of 25 hours on the tach (3325, 3350,
>3375, etc). Now, every time I see the tach getting close to a multiple of
>25, I know the oil change it due, without pulling out my logs.

Jay,

Nice idea, I will have to follow suit.

Thanks,
Nathan

[Ron Natalie]

Dan Thompson wrote:
> Go to Jiffy Lube, get an oil change, ask the tech if you can have about a
> dozen of his stickers. That's almost a lifetime supply for free. Nothing
> like a Jiffy Lube sticker in your plane to show you care.

I think I already suggested that.

[Michael]

" > wrote
> I've noticed that some people log oil changes but some do not.

Yeah. That's life. As usual, it's the FAA's fault.

> Do you log oil changes?

Yes. Eventually. I have a log in the plane where I track flight time
(air and engine), VOR checks, and oil consumption. It also has a
place to show any notes, like where I landed, IMC time, approaches,
whatever. When I change the oil, that log shows it. Eventually, I'll
go back and catch up the official log books for my airplane and
myself. Usually that happens the next time I need my A&P's signature
on something.

Here's the thing, though - if I knew someone was going to look at my
logbooks (as I would expect any airplane purchaser to do) I would have
them caught up. Not because it means much, but because it's so easy
to do. It takes all of five minutes.

Now let me tell you why some people don't log oil changes.

Oil changes are not actually required. It's perfectly legal to fly
the plane all year on the same oil, adding as necessary. The 25 (or
50, 100) hour interval is just a recommendation. Ditto gapping plugs,
changing filter, etc. So no entry in the logbooks isn't something you
can get busted on.

On the other hand, if you do make an entry, an ambitious fed can bust
you on it. For example, how many of you log that you performed the
change (gapped plugs, changed filter) in accordance with the Lycoming
(or Continental) service manual? And maybe there is an aircraft
manufacturer's manual that takes precedence?

An owner is permitted to perform preventive maintenance (elementary
operations in Canada) but he is still required to perform it in a
manner acceptable to the administrator. That generally means in
accordance with the aircraft (or engine) service manual or other
publication. If you didn't log it, it didn't happen. So clearly, you
performed the preventive maintenance in a manner that might not have
been acceptable to the administrator. Busted.

I don't hold with that view myself, because if you've ****ed off a fed
enough that he's willing to bust you on this, he will find SOMETHING
to bust you on, right or wrong - but there are people out there who
believe that it's a bad idea to log anything you don't absolutely have
to, because that will be used against you. They may even have a
point.

So basically, because the FAA allows its inspectors to get away with
bull**** busts like this, some people are defensively not logging
anything they don't have to.

Does it mean anything? Not really. Just because it was logged
doesn't mean it was done, and vice versa. According to my logbooks,
all my hoses were replaced 7 years ago. Thus I was pretty surprised
when my left brake hose (in the cabin) blew on brake application.
When I removed it (a process that requires lying on your back with
feet on the left front seat, holding one wrench in each hand and
flashlight in the teeth) I noted that the faded metal tag (unreadable
by flashlight, but barely legible in good daylight) said it was
manufactured in 1964. Remember, just because it's in writing doesn't
mean it's true.

Michael

[PaulaJay1]

Variation to this question.
Does anyone enter the addition of oil between changes into the engine log? I
keep a separate record for myself but do not enter it in the official log.
Also, my oil change by my A&P costs about $110 including filter and oil sample
amalysis with my supplying the oil. How does this compare?
Chuck

[Hankal]

>Also, my oil change by my A&P costs about $110 including filter and oil
>sample
>amalysis with my supplying the oil. How does this compare?

I Buy my filters 8 to 10 at a time from Aircraft Spruce.
Get my oil from Sam's Club a case or two at a time.
Change my oil every 50 hours or there about. Every other oil change I send the
oil to the lab cost about $10.00
Also have my AP do a compression check at 100 hours. $40.00
I think that $110.00 is a lot for an oil change, but then it denpends on the
labor rate of you AP.
Hank 172 driver

[Newps]

Michael wrote:


>
> On the other hand, if you do make an entry, an ambitious fed can bust
> you on it. For example, how many of you log that you performed the
> change (gapped plugs, changed filter) in accordance with the Lycoming
> (or Continental) service manual?

Not necessary in the US.


>
> An owner is permitted to perform preventive maintenance (elementary
> operations in Canada) but he is still required to perform it in a
> manner acceptable to the administrator.

Yes.


That generally means in
> accordance with the aircraft (or engine) service manual or other
> publication.

Yes, but you don't have to write that in the logbook.


If you didn't log it, it didn't happen. So clearly, you
> performed the preventive maintenance in a manner that might not have
> been acceptable to the administrator. Busted.

No. Prove the oil change was done wrong.

[Newps]

Hankal wrote:

>>Also, my oil change by my A&P costs about $110 including filter and oil
>>sample
>>amalysis with my supplying the oil. How does this compare?
>
>
> I Buy my filters 8 to 10 at a time from Aircraft Spruce.
> Get my oil from Sam's Club a case or two at a time.
> Change my oil every 50 hours or there about. Every other oil change I send the
> oil to the lab cost about $10.00
> Also have my AP do a compression check at 100 hours. $40.00
> I think that $110.00 is a lot for an oil change, but then it denpends on the
> labor rate of you AP.

$110 is ridiculous, do it yourself, it ain't rocket science. Mine costs
$18 total for 9 quarts of oil. I don't have a filter and only do the
screen at the annual.

[Ron Natalie]

Newps wrote:

>
> $110 is ridiculous, do it yourself, it ain't rocket science. Mine costs
> $18 total for 9 quarts of oil. I don't have a filter and only do the
> screen at the annual.
>

The first time I called up my mechanic for an oil change she said bring it over.
She opened it up and changed the oil while I watched. When done she billed
me $38 + the oil.

The second time I called up, she said bring it over. She handed me a screw
driver, a bucket, and the case of oil. I paid only for the oil.

She divides her customers into two groups. "Owners" and "just pilots."
Owners take an active role in the maintenance of their aircraft. The
"just pilots" just write checks.

[Aaron Coolidge]

Michael > wrote:
: Now let me tell you why some people don't log oil changes.

: Oil changes are not actually required. It's perfectly legal to fly
: the plane all year on the same oil, adding as necessary. The 25 (or
: 50, 100) hour interval is just a recommendation. Ditto gapping plugs,

In the old piston engine airliner days the oil wasn't changed until engine
overhaul. No oil analysis either - it was the 1950's. The oil probably
didn't need to be changed because it leaked out of the radials quickly, so
the oil was probably "replaced" every 50 hours anyway. Presumably the oil
screens were cleaned at some interval, though.
--
Aaron Coolidge

[nuke]

>$110 is ridiculous, do it yourself, it ain't rocket science. Mine costs
>
>$18 total for 9 quarts of oil. I don't have a filter and only do the
>screen at the annual.

I'd recommend, just like my airplane service manual says, to check both the
pressure and suction screens at every oil change. Why? Well, I found a hunk of
bearing in my sump screen last oil change. Nothing weird on the oil analysis,
nothing weird in the pressure screen, engine was running great and has
excellent compression and performance with no sign of trouble. I'm waiting to
get the engine split open to find out the extent of the trouble. If it did
destroy a bearing, then maybe I just averted an in-flight engine failure. At
the very least, I might have saved myself buying a new crank.

Lycoming pressure screen gasket: $0.97
AN900-16 crush washer for the suction screen: $0.39

Case of oil: $30-$50 depending on preference.

Add $15 for a filter if you have one.

Should also check the gascolator and fuel screens while you're at it. Never
know when a hunk of fuel bladder or sloshing compound might show up. Sure would
make for a bad day if it clogged up.

$110 isn't out of line. $40-60 for materials and an hour labor to clean
everything, cut open the oil filter, wash down the engine with solvent, run up
and check for leaks, sign the paperwork.




--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

[Dan Thompson]

No problem, file it with the Department of Redundancy Department.

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Dan Thompson wrote:
>> Go to Jiffy Lube, get an oil change, ask the tech if you can have about a
>> dozen of his stickers. That's almost a lifetime supply for free.
>> Nothing like a Jiffy Lube sticker in your plane to show you care.
>
> I think I already suggested that.

[Doug]

Since the FAA has been citing owner/operators for INCORRECT WORDING in
maintenance logs, what IS the correct wording for an oil change log?

[Newps]

Doug wrote:

> Since the FAA has been citing owner/operators for INCORRECT WORDING in
> maintenance logs, what IS the correct wording for an oil change log?

I write...
Drained oil, serviced with 9 qts of Phillips XC 20W-50. Test ran and
leak checked good.
The I sign it, write in my cert # and also write "owner" next to it.
That's it.

[Ron Natalie]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Doug wrote:
>
>> Since the FAA has been citing owner/operators for INCORRECT WORDING in
>> maintenance logs, what IS the correct wording for an oil change log?
>
>
> I write...
> Drained oil, serviced with 9 qts of Phillips XC 20W-50. Test ran and
> leak checked good.
> The I sign it, write in my cert # and also write "owner" next to it.
> That's it.
>
Yep, all the regs require is a:

1. Description of the work.
2. The Date
3. The name of who did the work if different than the signer
4. The signature, cert type and number of the person approving the work.

The only cases I've heard about the FAA having issues is when the pilots
did not make the entry indicating that the aircraft has been approved
for flight after the maintenance (that's what the item #4 does).

[Michael]

Newps > wrote
> If you didn't log it, it didn't happen. So clearly, you
> > performed the preventive maintenance in a manner that might not have
> > been acceptable to the administrator. Busted.
>
> No. Prove the oil change was done wrong.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works with the FAA. The ALJ's
handbook specifically states that you are an interested party, and the
inspector is not, so if it's his word against yours, he is
automatically right.

With the FAA, you are guilty until proven innocent.

Michael

[Newps]

Michael wrote:
> Newps > wrote
>
>> If you didn't log it, it didn't happen. So clearly, you
>>
>>>performed the preventive maintenance in a manner that might not have
>>>been acceptable to the administrator. Busted.
>>
>>No. Prove the oil change was done wrong.
>
>
> Unfortunately, that's not how it works with the FAA. The ALJ's
> handbook specifically states that you are an interested party, and the
> inspector is not, so if it's his word against yours, he is
> automatically right.
>
> With the FAA, you are guilty until proven innocent.

No, if they are going to assert I did not do my oil change correctly
they have to have proof. Saying I did it wrong is not proof

[G.R. Patterson III]

Newps wrote:
>
> Doug wrote:
>
> > Since the FAA has been citing owner/operators for INCORRECT WORDING in
> > maintenance logs, what IS the correct wording for an oil change log?
>
> I write...
> Drained oil, serviced with 9 qts of Phillips XC 20W-50. Test ran and
> leak checked good.
> The I sign it, write in my cert # and also write "owner" next to it.
> That's it.

My wording is similar. I also change the filter, so I add a note about that.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Dave Stadt]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Michael wrote:
> > Newps > wrote
> >
> >> If you didn't log it, it didn't happen. So clearly, you
> >>
> >>>performed the preventive maintenance in a manner that might not have
> >>>been acceptable to the administrator. Busted.
> >>
> >>No. Prove the oil change was done wrong.
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, that's not how it works with the FAA. The ALJ's
> > handbook specifically states that you are an interested party, and the
> > inspector is not, so if it's his word against yours, he is
> > automatically right.
> >
> > With the FAA, you are guilty until proven innocent.
>
> No, if they are going to assert I did not do my oil change correctly
> they have to have proof. Saying I did it wrong is not proof

Dream on.

[Matt Whiting]

Doug wrote:

> Since the FAA has been citing owner/operators for INCORRECT WORDING in
> maintenance logs, what IS the correct wording for an oil change log?

I haven't heard this. Who has been cited and what entries were
considered to be incorrectly worded?

Matt

[Doug]

Newps > wrote in message >...
They get you for LOGGING it wrong. Don't you have to put "return to service" ?

> Michael wrote:
> > Newps > wrote
> >
> >> If you didn't log it, it didn't happen. So clearly, you
> >>
> >>>performed the preventive maintenance in a manner that might not have
> >>>been acceptable to the administrator. Busted.
> >>
> >>No. Prove the oil change was done wrong.
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, that's not how it works with the FAA. The ALJ's
> > handbook specifically states that you are an interested party, and the
> > inspector is not, so if it's his word against yours, he is
> > automatically right.
> >
> > With the FAA, you are guilty until proven innocent.
>
> No, if they are going to assert I did not do my oil change correctly
> they ha
ve to have proof. Saying I did it wrong is not proof

[Newps]

Doug wrote:
> Newps > wrote in message >...


> They get you for LOGGING it wrong. Don't you have to put "return to service" ?

No. A casual perusal of my logbooks going back to 1967 shows the term
return to service maybe 5 times. I couldn't even hazard a guess how
many different mechanics that must be from all over the country.

[[email protected]]

On 17 Nov 2004 17:13:18 -0800, (Doug)
wrote:

>Newps > wrote in message >...
>They get you for LOGGING it wrong. Don't you have to put "return to service" ?
>

As of 01-01-2004

Cut-n-paste apologies for any funky formatting:

PART 43--MAINTENANCE, PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE, REBUILDING, AND
ALTERATION--Table of Contents

Sec. 43.9 Content, form, and disposition of maintenance, preventive
maintenance, rebuilding, and alteration records (except inspections
performed in accordance with part 91, part 123, part 125, Sec.
135.411(a)(1), and Sec. 135.419 of this chapter).

a) Maintenance record entries. Except as provided in paragraphs (b)
and (c) of this section, each person who maintains, performs
preventive maintenance, rebuilds, or alters an aircraft, airframe,
aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part shall make an
entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the
following information:

1) A description (or reference to data acceptable to the
Administrator) of work performed.

(2) The date of completion of the work performed.

(3) The name of the person performing the work if other than the
person specified in paragraph (a)(4) of this section.

(4) If the work performed on the aircraft, airframe, aircraft
engine, propeller, appliance, or component part has been performed
satisfactorily, the signature, certificate number, and kind of
certificate held by the person approving the work. The signature
constitutes the approval for return to service only for the work
performed.

TC

[Ron Natalie]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>
>> Since the FAA has been citing owner/operators for INCORRECT WORDING in
>> maintenance logs, what IS the correct wording for an oil change log?
>
>
> I haven't heard this. Who has been cited and what entries were
> considered to be incorrectly worded?
>
The major issue is not signing the log. The aircraft is not approved
for return to service without the signature, pilot cert type and number
of the person approving the maintenance.

[Ron Natalie]

Doug wrote:
> Newps > wrote in message >...
> They get you for LOGGING it wrong. Don't you have to put "return to service" ?
>
>
You do not have to say "return to service" The regs specifically say the signature
is the approval.

12/1/2004 Oil Changed <SIGNATURE>Joe Owner-Pilot</SIGNATURE> PP-ASEL 9999999.

is all that is requuired by the regs. You're always supposed to use approved
procedures, that doesn't need repeating.

You need the:

1. Date
2. The description of work performed
3. Person doing it (if different from the one approving it)
4. Signature, certificate, and certificate number of the person approving
for return to service.