Lyc. O-360 cylinder question

[JB]

I recently bought an O-360-A1D from a parted out Geronimo Apache to
use in my RV-8 project and have a question (or two) regarding its
background.

The engine was installed on the Apache in late '95 and has a new
Lycoming logbook, no previous logs included. Makes me think it's a
Lyc. factory reman engine, zero timed and all that... but, on the
first page of the new log it shows the TT on the core at 2022 hrs.
The work was done by Lycoming at Williamsport, PA; would this be
considered a factory reman or factory overhaul? I can't quite tell...
don't guess it really matters though.

My big question is this; whether reman or O/H'd, would the cylinders
installed by Lycoming be new or overhauled ones from the jug bin? I'm
planning on a field overhaul on it, and assuming jugs were new in '95
(1660 hrs now) I'm tempted to have them overhauled and re-used. If
they were used, O/H'd jugs to start, with no idea of TT or history,
I'd trash 'em.

I'm pretty sure that Lyc installs new jugs on O/H's or remans, but
what say ye, engine gurus?

John

[jls]

"JB" > wrote in message
om...
> I recently bought an O-360-A1D from a parted out Geronimo Apache to
> use in my RV-8 project and have a question (or two) regarding its
> background.
>
> The engine was installed on the Apache in late '95 and has a new
> Lycoming logbook, no previous logs included. Makes me think it's a
> Lyc. factory reman engine, zero timed and all that... but, on the
> first page of the new log it shows the TT on the core at 2022 hrs.
> The work was done by Lycoming at Williamsport, PA; would this be
> considered a factory reman or factory overhaul? I can't quite tell...
> don't guess it really matters though.
>
> My big question is this; whether reman or O/H'd, would the cylinders
> installed by Lycoming be new or overhauled ones from the jug bin? I'm
> planning on a field overhaul on it, and assuming jugs were new in '95
> (1660 hrs now) I'm tempted to have them overhauled and re-used. If
> they were used, O/H'd jugs to start, with no idea of TT or history,
> I'd trash 'em.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Lyc installs new jugs on O/H's or remans, but
> what say ye, engine gurus?
>
> John

I'd suspect the engine is a reman and they installed new cylinders at the
factory. Teledyne keeps records on its reman engines and I bet Lycoming
does too.

[Dave Butler]

JB wrote:
> I recently bought an O-360-A1D from a parted out Geronimo Apache to
> use in my RV-8 project and have a question (or two) regarding its
> background.
>
> The engine was installed on the Apache in late '95 and has a new
> Lycoming logbook, no previous logs included. Makes me think it's a
> Lyc. factory reman engine, zero timed and all that... but, on the
> first page of the new log it shows the TT on the core at 2022 hrs.
> The work was done by Lycoming at Williamsport, PA; would this be
> considered a factory reman or factory overhaul? I can't quite tell...
> don't guess it really matters though.
>
> My big question is this; whether reman or O/H'd, would the cylinders
> installed by Lycoming be new or overhauled ones from the jug bin? I'm
> planning on a field overhaul on it, and assuming jugs were new in '95
> (1660 hrs now) I'm tempted to have them overhauled and re-used. If
> they were used, O/H'd jugs to start, with no idea of TT or history,
> I'd trash 'em.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Lyc installs new jugs on O/H's or remans, but
> what say ye, engine gurus?

Even if the jugs were new in '95, check the difference in price between new and
overhauled before you decide. You might find the cost difference isn't enough to
justify the overhaul, just go with new.

[Jack McAdams]

(JB) wrote in message >...
> I recently bought an O-360-A1D from a parted out Geronimo Apache to
> use in my RV-8 project and have a question (or two) regarding its
> background.
>
> The engine was installed on the Apache in late '95 and has a new
> Lycoming logbook, no previous logs included. Makes me think it's a
> Lyc. factory reman engine, zero timed and all that... but, on the
> first page of the new log it shows the TT on the core at 2022 hrs.
> The work was done by Lycoming at Williamsport, PA; would this be
> considered a factory reman or factory overhaul? I can't quite tell...
> don't guess it really matters though.
>
> My big question is this; whether reman or O/H'd, would the cylinders
> installed by Lycoming be new or overhauled ones from the jug bin? I'm
> planning on a field overhaul on it, and assuming jugs were new in '95
> (1660 hrs now) I'm tempted to have them overhauled and re-used. If
> they were used, O/H'd jugs to start, with no idea of TT or history,
> I'd trash 'em.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Lyc installs new jugs on O/H's or remans, but
> what say ye, engine gurus?
>
> John


A Lycoming factory reman will have a -R (dash R) suffix on the serial
number. The logbook entry of 2K to start seems to indicate it was a
factory O/H, not a reman. A reman gets a zero-time logbook to start.

Jack

[[email protected]]

On 22 Nov 2004 23:01:33 -0800, (JB) wrote:

snip

>The engine was installed on the Apache in late '95 and has a new
>Lycoming logbook, no previous logs included. Makes me think it's a
>Lyc. factory reman engine, zero timed and all that... but, on the
>first page of the new log it shows the TT on the core at 2022 hrs.
>The work was done by Lycoming at Williamsport, PA; would this be
>considered a factory reman or factory overhaul? I can't quite tell...
>don't guess it really matters though.
>
>My big question is this; whether reman or O/H'd, would the cylinders
>installed by Lycoming be new or overhauled ones from the jug bin? I'm
>planning on a field overhaul on it, and assuming jugs were new in '95
>(1660 hrs now) I'm tempted to have them overhauled and re-used. If
>they were used, O/H'd jugs to start, with no idea of TT or history,
>I'd trash 'em.
>
>I'm pretty sure that Lyc installs new jugs on O/H's or remans, but
>what say ye, engine gurus?

As others have indicated, a TT of 2022 indicates that it is an
overhaul. a reman would have a TT of 0.

In 1995, Lycoming definitely used only new cylinder assemblies on
overhauled and remanufactured engines.

A quick scan of their web site indicates that this is still the case
today.

TC

[Doodybutch]

Jack is right. It's a factory Overhauled engine. It's just as good as a
reman, if you ask me.


DB

[JB]

(Jack McAdams) wrote in message >...

> A Lycoming factory reman will have a -R (dash R) suffix on the serial
> number. The logbook entry of 2K to start seems to indicate it was a
> factory O/H, not a reman. A reman gets a zero-time logbook to start.
>

Well there's my answer... no -R on the serial, it's a factory o/h
then. I'm still thinking about what to do with the jugs; I know the
prices of new ones have come down quite a bit, with jugs from ECI and
Superior going for around $900-1100 or so, but still... if these are
first run cylinders with 1660 hrs, and the engine was running great
when removed; there's probably lotsa life left in 'em after an
overhaul, and I'd get to save several hundred bucks per jug. It's not
that I'm a cheapskate, but I'm not rich either... it's nice to save a
few bucks.

Thanks for the responses!
John

[zatatime]

On 23 Nov 2004 20:12:17 -0800, (JB) wrote:

>. if these are
>first run cylinders with 1660 hrs, and the engine was running great
>when removed;


Can I ask why your overhauling a good engine so early?

Thanks,
z

[Mike Spera]

Overhauling cylinders is a crap shoot, even more than new ones. Think
about this, if even ONE goes bad, your economics are shot. The delta
between new and overhauled cylinders is not big enough.

I overhauled first run cylinders on my Cherokee 140. 750 hours later, I
have already pulled TWO and ANOTHER ONE is now going bad. This engine
was overhauled to new limits at a "big" shop (G&N). And, 0-320 engines
are not known for their high failure rate.

Never again.
Good Luck,
Mike

JB wrote:
> (Jack McAdams) wrote in message >...
>
>
>>A Lycoming factory reman will have a -R (dash R) suffix on the serial
>>number. The logbook entry of 2K to start seems to indicate it was a
>>factory O/H, not a reman. A reman gets a zero-time logbook to start.
>>
>
>
> Well there's my answer... no -R on the serial, it's a factory o/h
> then. I'm still thinking about what to do with the jugs; I know the
> prices of new ones have come down quite a bit, with jugs from ECI and
> Superior going for around $900-1100 or so, but still... if these are
> first run cylinders with 1660 hrs, and the engine was running great
> when removed; there's probably lotsa life left in 'em after an
> overhaul, and I'd get to save several hundred bucks per jug. It's not
> that I'm a cheapskate, but I'm not rich either... it's nice to save a
> few bucks.
>
> Thanks for the responses!
> John

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[Newps]

Mike Spera wrote:
> Overhauling cylinders is a crap shoot, even more than new ones. Think
> about this, if even ONE goes bad, your economics are shot. The delta
> between new and overhauled cylinders is not big enough.

I don't know what your prices are but here an overhauled chromed
O-470/520/550 cylinder is $350 vs a new cost of approx $1100.

[Scott Skylane]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Mike Spera wrote:
>
>> Overhauling cylinders is a crap shoot, even more than new ones. Think
>> about this, if even ONE goes bad, your economics are shot. The delta
>> between new and overhauled cylinders is not big enough.
>
>
> I don't know what your prices are but here an overhauled chromed
> O-470/520/550 cylinder is $350 vs a new cost of approx $1100.

Newps,

I suspect you are comparing an overhauled "stud assembly" vs. a new
"complete assembly". Hardly "apples to apples".

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
N92054

[JB]

zatatime > wrote in message >...
> On 23 Nov 2004 20:12:17 -0800, (JB) wrote:
> >first run cylinders with 1660 hrs, and the engine was running great
> >when removed;
>
> Can I ask why your overhauling a good engine so early?

There's a couple of reasons really... first is that the engine had a
prop strike some 50 hrs ago. oops. Renter pilot took off with the
gear handle up; left gear started to retracted and bent the tips of
the blades. Then the moron proceded to his destination 50 miles away,
complete with bent tips; double oops. No sudden stoppage.

A mechanic checked the runout on the flange and the accessory case
gears and pronounced it fit to fly, which it did for another 50 hours.
The instructors flying it said the engines ran great, very strong and
used little oil. Then came a gear collapse on landing... luckily my
engine was feathered at the time, blades horizontal, no damage to the
engine/prop at all. So there's why the ship was parted out.

I figure that if I'm building a shiny new RV-8, I ought to have a
newly overhauled engine up front. I originally thought about just
bolting it on and flying it, but I decided to have it torn down and
checked out, especially the crankshaft, just for my peace of mind.

John

[zatatime]

On 25 Nov 2004 19:37:59 -0800, (JB) wrote:

>I decided to have it torn down and
>checked out, especially the crankshaft, just for my peace of mind.


Thanks for the response. Seems like the engine has and will see
better days. Not a bad decision, especially if its going to be used
in a slippery single.

Good Luck.
z

[G.R. Patterson III]

JB wrote:
>
> Well there's my answer... no -R on the serial, it's a factory o/h
> then. I'm still thinking about what to do with the jugs; I know the
> prices of new ones have come down quite a bit, with jugs from ECI and
> Superior going for around $900-1100 or so, but still... if these are
> first run cylinders with 1660 hrs, and the engine was running great
> when removed; there's probably lotsa life left in 'em after an
> overhaul, and I'd get to save several hundred bucks per jug.

According to their ads, Lycoming replaces the cylinders with new when they
overhaul an engine.

George Patterson