Re: Adding IFR Plane Certification To Planes Without It

[Blanche Cohen]

Michael Adams > wrote:
>What does the FAA say about adding IFR certification to planes which do not
>have it? Can IFR be added to any plane, or does it have to have some sort
>of "pre-cerfication" by the manufacturer for make and model? This question
>came up, because I have seen IFR added to a few aerobatic models, presumably
>for "emergency IFR". I know for helicopters, you can't add IFR unless it
>meets certain stability requirements. I wasn't sure about planes.

"adding IFR certification"? please explain...

rats...my copy of the FAR is at the hangar. but if I remember correctly,
the requirements include

static/pitot check every 24 months
mode c transponder
communication equipment adequate to talk with ATC (radio that has .x25)
navigation equipment as appropriate (can't remember the exact minimum but
I think it's 1 VOR receiver and indicator...is ILS required? Possibly
an ADF/DME in addition...)

[Mike Adams]

(Blanche Cohen) wrote:

> Michael Adams > wrote:
>>What does the FAA say about adding IFR certification to planes which
>>do not have it? Can IFR be added to any plane, or does it have to
>>have some sort of "pre-cerfication" by the manufacturer for make and
>>model? This question came up, because I have seen IFR added to a few
>>aerobatic models, presumably for "emergency IFR". I know for
>>helicopters, you can't add IFR unless it meets certain stability
>>requirements. I wasn't sure about planes.
>
> "adding IFR certification"? please explain...
>
> rats...my copy of the FAR is at the hangar. but if I remember
> correctly, the requirements include
>
> static/pitot check every 24 months
> mode c transponder
> communication equipment adequate to talk with ATC (radio that has
> .x25) navigation equipment as appropriate (can't remember the exact
> minimum but
> I think it's 1 VOR receiver and indicator...is ILS required?
> Possibly an ADF/DME in addition...)

Here's what FAR 91.205(d) says:
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following
instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this
section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in
paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communications system and navigational equipment
appropriate to the ground facilities to be used.
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following
aircraft:
(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through
flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in
accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in
Sec. 121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable
through flight attitudes of 80 degrees of pitch and
120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with
Sec. 29.1303(g) of this chapter.
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-
second pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).

Hope this helps,
Mike (the other one)

[Aaron Coolidge]

Michael Adams > wrote:
: What does the FAA say about adding IFR certification to planes which do not
: have it? Can IFR be added to any plane, or does it have to have some sort
: of "pre-cerfication" by the manufacturer for make and model? This question
: came up, because I have seen IFR added to a few aerobatic models, presumably
: for "emergency IFR". I know for helicopters, you can't add IFR unless it
: meets certain stability requirements. I wasn't sure about planes.

For certified aircraft it's probably in the TCDS. All that I have seen
specify a placard in the airplane that says something like "This Aircraft Is
Certified for the following conditions: Day - Night - VFR - IFR: If properly
equipped". (That was the placard language from a C-152, anyway.)

For homebuilts, well, the way it was explained to me by the friendly Van's
people is that the builder cerifies everything about the aircraft,
so they can specify anything they want, assuming proper equipment as you
noted in the reply below.
--
Aaron Coolidge

[[email protected]]

On 25-Nov-2004, "Michael Adams" > wrote:


> What does the FAA say about adding IFR certification to planes which do
> not have it? Can IFR be added to any plane, or does it have to have some
> sort
> of "pre-cerfication" by the manufacturer for make and model? This
> question came up, because I have seen IFR added to a few aerobatic models,
> presumably for "emergency IFR".


As I understand it, the type certificate for a given model indicates
approval for flight in IFR conditions. The vast majority of certificated GA
aircraft are so approved. Some specialty aircraft, like purely aerobatic
models, might not be certified for IFR -- I really don't know. In any case,
I suspect that adding IFR approval to an aircraft whose type certificate
lacks it would probably require at least an STC.

Now, beyond type certificate approval, Part 91 IFR operation in an airplane
carries certain minimum equipment requirements AND a static system/altimeter
check within the preceding 24 months. Sometimes that static
system/altimeter test is (erroneously) referred to as "IFR certification".

As I said, most GA airplanes are approved for IFR operations, and most
manufactured within the past 40 years or so are equipped with basic IFR
instruments (sensitive altimeter, gyro compass, AI, and rate of turn
indicator). So, what generally is required to make a previously VFR-only
airplane legal for IFR is, in most cases, addition of required avionics if
not already installed and successfully passing a static system/altimeter
test. Minimum avionics requirements are 2-way VHF com and nav gear suitable
for facilities that will be used.

Does this answer your questions?
--
-Elliott Drucker

[Thomas Borchert]

Michael,

one example for a non-IFR-certified aircraft would be the Diamond DA-20
Katana. It lacks the lightning protection needed for IFR certification.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[M]

(Blanche Cohen) wrote in message >...

> static/pitot check every 24 months
> mode c transponder
> communication equipment adequate to talk with ATC (radio that has .x25)
> navigation equipment as appropriate (can't remember the exact minimum but
> I think it's 1 VOR receiver and indicator...is ILS required? Possibly
> an ADF/DME in addition...)

One VOR is all you need if that's all you'll use for a particular
flight. No glideslope, ADF or DME required. Theoratically you can
file IFR with a single ADF on board and nothing (nav) else if you only
fly ADF airways and do only NDB approaches. However in real life the
minimum would be a single VOR for nav.

That VOR needs a VOR check in the past 60 day with a log entry in the
aircraft.

[Brad Zeigler]

"M" > wrote in message
om...
> That VOR needs a VOR check in the past 60 day with a log entry in the
> aircraft.

You mean 30 days, right?

[M]

Yep. That was a silly typo. thanks.

"Brad Zeigler" > wrote in message >...
> "M" > wrote in message
> om...
> > That VOR needs a VOR check in the past 60 day with a log entry in the
> > aircraft.
>
> You mean 30 days, right?

[Ron Natalie]

wrote:

> As I understand it, the type certificate for a given model indicates
> approval for flight in IFR conditions.

This is true for those certficiated under the current regs. Older
aircraft, just have to meet the requirements of 91.205 and the
related inspection requirements.

[Jesse Wright]

With regard to Day/Night IFR/VFR required placarding, what steps do
you need to take to have the placard installed on an airplane that
does not already have the placard (A&I signoff??)? This has come up
at checkride time with another airplane on the ramp, but I don't know
what the resolution was.

Jesse
N4372X

[Ron Natalie]

Jesse Wright wrote:
> With regard to Day/Night IFR/VFR required placarding, what steps do
> you need to take to have the placard installed on an airplane that
> does not already have the placard (A&I signoff??)? This has come up
> at checkride time with another airplane on the ramp, but I don't know
> what the resolution was.

What placarding are you talking about? Aircraft that don't have
the required placards aren't airworthy. Someone, either an A&P
(doesn't need to be an IA) or perhaps the pilot-owner (acting under
the preventive maintenance sections of Part 43 Ap. A) needs to put
it write and make the appropriate log book entries.