Heater problem fixed!

[Jim Burns]

After troubleshooting the Janitrol heater in our Aztec for the past 3 weeks,
we've finally got it fixed. The problem ended up being a combination of a
bad ignitor (spark plug) and a coked fuel nozzle. One problem no doubt
causing the other problem.

After a new spark plug didn't solve our problems, we dug in further and
found that the nozzle was coked over. Cleaning it didn't help, so C&D
shipped us a new nozzle.

After verifying 7 lbs of fuel pressure going into the nozzle holder/
solenoid valve assembly, we still weren't getting a good spray pattern out
of the new nozzle. We called C&D and shipped them the new nozzle as well as
the nozzle holder / solenoid valve assembly. They replaced the nozzle with
another new nozzle and also flushed the holder / valve assembly, test
sprayed it and got full atomization.

Now our heater is putting out the heat that it's supposed to. The happiest
words I heard this weekend while flying from WI to MI and back was "Daddy,
it's too hot back here" :))

Hope this may help someone else in the future.

Jim


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[zatatime]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:32:28 -0600, "Jim Burns"
> wrote:

>The happiest
>words I heard this weekend while flying from WI to MI and back was "Daddy,
>it's too hot back here" :))

Glad you got it fixed Jim!

z

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:32:28 -0600, "Jim Burns" >
wrote:

>The happiest
>words I heard this weekend while flying from WI to MI and back was "Daddy,
>it's too hot back here" :))

Gosh I wish I had that problem.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Jim Burns]

Createing such a problem was a long time coming and took a lot of extra
curricular late night reading pouring over the service manual and the web.
It was time well spent though, it saved us a ton of money in "hunt and peck"
investigative labor. One A&P actually told us it was working fine. Ha!

Jim

"Ron Rosenfeld" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:32:28 -0600, "Jim Burns"
>
> wrote:
>
> >The happiest
> >words I heard this weekend while flying from WI to MI and back was
"Daddy,
> >it's too hot back here" :))
>
> Gosh I wish I had that problem.
>
>
> Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)


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[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:38:51 -0600, "Jim Burns" >
wrote:

>Createing such a problem was a long time coming and took a lot of extra
>curricular late night reading pouring over the service manual and the web.
>It was time well spent though, it saved us a ton of money in "hunt and peck"
>investigative labor. One A&P actually told us it was working fine. Ha!

Well, my "mature" Mooney has an STC'd RayJay turbonormalizer. One of the
consequences of this installation is a tiny heat muff. After years of
begging, I have finally found an FBO that says they can install a second
heat muff for me with a field approval. Although I don't think it will
give me a "too warm" problem, it may make cold weather trips bearable :-)


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Jay Honeck]

> Createing such a problem was a long time coming and took a lot of extra
> curricular late night reading pouring over the service manual and the web.

Heater problems can be the worst, since there are so many variables, and
they all have such large consequences. Everything from a tiny air leak
under the back seat, to door seals, to the heat ducts, to flapper
controls -- you name it -- can screw up winter flying.

Having a Janitrol heater just adds another set of variables to the
problem -- congrats on getting it fixed. (The coldest I have EVER been was
in a C-310, flying into Rochester, MN in winter -- with an inop gas-fired
heater. I thought I was going to die.)

It took me over a year to get our old Warrior to the point where my kids
didn't need a down comforter in the back seat. (Luckily our current plane
has been air-tight and hot since Day One -- no doubt because a previous
owner went through all the rigmarole for me.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Denny]

I just put a new heater in Fat Albert from C&D, to replace the
Southwind... Test flew it yesterday for the first time... 28F outside,
and I had to keep turning down the heat inside - halfway open on the
knob was just right... On that point I'm a happy camper...

The old heater was working but had an AD for inspection every 500 hours
(531 in the logbook since last inspection)... Pulled it and found a
tiny crack on the can, plus it had been welded before (no entry in the
logs)... Called three major shops for opinions and they were uniform
that it needed to be zero timed which would be $1800 plus my obsolete
solenoid/fuel regulator had to go, for another $650... In the end I
sprang for brand new unit with a warranty... That turned out to be
$3200 with shipping, plus a number of hours of labor to install a new
control switch and wiring... At least I have no AD's for now...
Denny and Fat Albert

[Jim Burns]

That is exactly our plan if our Janitrol ever fails the pressure test. I've
already got a quote from C&D, $2400 plus our core plus shipping and install
labor on our end. C&D's price for rebuilding ours is actually higher,
$2600. I'm pretty happy with how C&D treated us on the parts. Every time I
talked to them on the phone they were willing to explain what ever needed
explaining and to only recommend the minimal parts to get our heater
operating correctly.

Jim


"Denny" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I just put a new heater in Fat Albert from C&D, to replace the
> Southwind... Test flew it yesterday for the first time... 28F outside,
> and I had to keep turning down the heat inside - halfway open on the
> knob was just right... On that point I'm a happy camper...
>
> The old heater was working but had an AD for inspection every 500 hours
> (531 in the logbook since last inspection)... Pulled it and found a
> tiny crack on the can, plus it had been welded before (no entry in the
> logs)... Called three major shops for opinions and they were uniform
> that it needed to be zero timed which would be $1800 plus my obsolete
> solenoid/fuel regulator had to go, for another $650... In the end I
> sprang for brand new unit with a warranty... That turned out to be
> $3200 with shipping, plus a number of hours of labor to install a new
> control switch and wiring... At least I have no AD's for now...
> Denny and Fat Albert
>


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[nobody]

Denny,

Is Fat Albert an Aztec by chance? If so, what year model?

I have a '64 C model Aztec with a Southwind that does not work
worth a crap. Did your old Southwind actually keep the cabin
warm? Mine seems to produce more stink and smoke than heat.

How difficult was the installaton of the new C&D unit? Any major
problems in getting the C&D installed?

Thanks,

Ronnie

"Denny" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I just put a new heater in Fat Albert from C&D, to replace the
> Southwind... Test flew it yesterday for the first time... 28F outside,
> and I had to keep turning down the heat inside - halfway open on the
> knob was just right... On that point I'm a happy camper...
>
> The old heater was working but had an AD for inspection every 500 hours
> (531 in the logbook since last inspection)... Pulled it and found a
> tiny crack on the can, plus it had been welded before (no entry in the
> logs)... Called three major shops for opinions and they were uniform
> that it needed to be zero timed which would be $1800 plus my obsolete
> solenoid/fuel regulator had to go, for another $650... In the end I
> sprang for brand new unit with a warranty... That turned out to be
> $3200 with shipping, plus a number of hours of labor to install a new
> control switch and wiring... At least I have no AD's for now...
> Denny and Fat Albert
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Is Fat Albert an Aztec by chance? If so, what year model?

It's an Apache.

You can see Denny and Fat Albert in the Rogue's Gallery here at:

http://alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/DennyOConner/Denny&FatAlber.jpg
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Denny]

As Jay commented, Fat Albert is a 1957 Apache - fat and spoiled...

The Aztec I referred to is a D model, that came from a sheriff's
auction out of Texas... It was a drug seizure plane that occurred in a
hail of gunfire, so it was named, The Blue Shooter... It's heater
(Janitrol as I remember) worked well... So well, that on one dark and
steely cold morning, flying from Michigan to Florida in IFR conditions,
it kept overheating the brand new S-TEC 50 autopilot causing it to
silently and sneakily go off line at the most inconvenient moments...
The controllers at Greenville, South Carolina were convinced I was
snorting something... The Blue Shooter is currently hauling bank
checks across the North Sea, 6 nights a week...

Fat Albert's old Southwind worked, but did not handle bitter cold
adequately... The difference with this new C&D heater is night and
day... C&D has a PMA for the heater so no paperwork other than the
A&P's entry in the log is required... There was a bit of work even
though it is roughly the same size and clamped right into the ductwork,
the various parts are not in the same location around the can... One
blower was mounted on a shelf above it... The most work was for the new
switch and wiring harness... The old wiring was asbestos and cloth
cover, still serviceable, but not pretty or desireable, and the C&D
warranty requires the new switch with teflon wiring... At this point I
am happy as a clam in mud, with it... We will see how it fares over the
next few years... An interesting point is that the combustion air, fan
motor has a ram air flow switch which not only turns off the
electricity to the blower motor but also raises the brushes off the
commutator so they don't wear as the fan is rotated by the ram air...
They claim a 4,000 hour life rating on the combustion air, fan motor...

The annual is just completing, I will post a blow by blow on that in a
few days... Mucho $$ this year that Jay can relate to...

Denny

[nobody]

Thanks for the detailed response, Denny. Good looking
Apache, by the way. I sent an inquiry to C&D and got
a prompt response this morning. Guess it is time to do some
troubleshooting on my end.

Ronnie

"Denny" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> As Jay commented, Fat Albert is a 1957 Apache - fat and spoiled...
>
> The Aztec I referred to is a D model, that came from a sheriff's
> auction out of Texas... It was a drug seizure plane that occurred in a
> hail of gunfire, so it was named, The Blue Shooter... It's heater
> (Janitrol as I remember) worked well... So well, that on one dark and
> steely cold morning, flying from Michigan to Florida in IFR conditions,
> it kept overheating the brand new S-TEC 50 autopilot causing it to
> silently and sneakily go off line at the most inconvenient moments...
> The controllers at Greenville, South Carolina were convinced I was
> snorting something... The Blue Shooter is currently hauling bank
> checks across the North Sea, 6 nights a week...
>
> Fat Albert's old Southwind worked, but did not handle bitter cold
> adequately... The difference with this new C&D heater is night and
> day... C&D has a PMA for the heater so no paperwork other than the
> A&P's entry in the log is required... There was a bit of work even
> though it is roughly the same size and clamped right into the ductwork,
> the various parts are not in the same location around the can... One
> blower was mounted on a shelf above it... The most work was for the new
> switch and wiring harness... The old wiring was asbestos and cloth
> cover, still serviceable, but not pretty or desireable, and the C&D
> warranty requires the new switch with teflon wiring... At this point I
> am happy as a clam in mud, with it... We will see how it fares over the
> next few years... An interesting point is that the combustion air, fan
> motor has a ram air flow switch which not only turns off the
> electricity to the blower motor but also raises the brushes off the
> commutator so they don't wear as the fan is rotated by the ram air...
> They claim a 4,000 hour life rating on the combustion air, fan motor...
>
> The annual is just completing, I will post a blow by blow on that in a
> few days... Mucho $$ this year that Jay can relate to...
>
> Denny
>

[Jim Burns]

C&D has a lot of troubleshooting tips in their catalog. You can download it
from their website: aircraftheater.com

Jim


"nobody" > wrote in message
. ..
> Thanks for the detailed response, Denny. Good looking
> Apache, by the way. I sent an inquiry to C&D and got
> a prompt response this morning. Guess it is time to do some
> troubleshooting on my end.
>
> Ronnie
>
> "Denny" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > As Jay commented, Fat Albert is a 1957 Apache - fat and spoiled...
> >
> > The Aztec I referred to is a D model, that came from a sheriff's
> > auction out of Texas... It was a drug seizure plane that occurred in a
> > hail of gunfire, so it was named, The Blue Shooter... It's heater
> > (Janitrol as I remember) worked well... So well, that on one dark and
> > steely cold morning, flying from Michigan to Florida in IFR conditions,
> > it kept overheating the brand new S-TEC 50 autopilot causing it to
> > silently and sneakily go off line at the most inconvenient moments...
> > The controllers at Greenville, South Carolina were convinced I was
> > snorting something... The Blue Shooter is currently hauling bank
> > checks across the North Sea, 6 nights a week...
> >
> > Fat Albert's old Southwind worked, but did not handle bitter cold
> > adequately... The difference with this new C&D heater is night and
> > day... C&D has a PMA for the heater so no paperwork other than the
> > A&P's entry in the log is required... There was a bit of work even
> > though it is roughly the same size and clamped right into the ductwork,
> > the various parts are not in the same location around the can... One
> > blower was mounted on a shelf above it... The most work was for the new
> > switch and wiring harness... The old wiring was asbestos and cloth
> > cover, still serviceable, but not pretty or desireable, and the C&D
> > warranty requires the new switch with teflon wiring... At this point I
> > am happy as a clam in mud, with it... We will see how it fares over the
> > next few years... An interesting point is that the combustion air, fan
> > motor has a ram air flow switch which not only turns off the
> > electricity to the blower motor but also raises the brushes off the
> > commutator so they don't wear as the fan is rotated by the ram air...
> > They claim a 4,000 hour life rating on the combustion air, fan motor...
> >
> > The annual is just completing, I will post a blow by blow on that in a
> > few days... Mucho $$ this year that Jay can relate to...
> >
> > Denny
> >
>
>


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[Jim Burns]

Ronnie,
If you don't already have it, I could dig out the Southwind section of our
Aztec Service Manual and forward you the pages. It's pretty extensive and
contains troubleshooting charts.
Jim

"nobody" > wrote in message
. ..
> Thanks for the detailed response, Denny. Good looking
> Apache, by the way. I sent an inquiry to C&D and got
> a prompt response this morning. Guess it is time to do some
> troubleshooting on my end.
>
> Ronnie
>
> "Denny" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > As Jay commented, Fat Albert is a 1957 Apache - fat and spoiled...
> >
> > The Aztec I referred to is a D model, that came from a sheriff's
> > auction out of Texas... It was a drug seizure plane that occurred in a
> > hail of gunfire, so it was named, The Blue Shooter... It's heater
> > (Janitrol as I remember) worked well... So well, that on one dark and
> > steely cold morning, flying from Michigan to Florida in IFR conditions,
> > it kept overheating the brand new S-TEC 50 autopilot causing it to
> > silently and sneakily go off line at the most inconvenient moments...
> > The controllers at Greenville, South Carolina were convinced I was
> > snorting something... The Blue Shooter is currently hauling bank
> > checks across the North Sea, 6 nights a week...
> >
> > Fat Albert's old Southwind worked, but did not handle bitter cold
> > adequately... The difference with this new C&D heater is night and
> > day... C&D has a PMA for the heater so no paperwork other than the
> > A&P's entry in the log is required... There was a bit of work even
> > though it is roughly the same size and clamped right into the ductwork,
> > the various parts are not in the same location around the can... One
> > blower was mounted on a shelf above it... The most work was for the new
> > switch and wiring harness... The old wiring was asbestos and cloth
> > cover, still serviceable, but not pretty or desireable, and the C&D
> > warranty requires the new switch with teflon wiring... At this point I
> > am happy as a clam in mud, with it... We will see how it fares over the
> > next few years... An interesting point is that the combustion air, fan
> > motor has a ram air flow switch which not only turns off the
> > electricity to the blower motor but also raises the brushes off the
> > commutator so they don't wear as the fan is rotated by the ram air...
> > They claim a 4,000 hour life rating on the combustion air, fan motor...
> >
> > The annual is just completing, I will post a blow by blow on that in a
> > few days... Mucho $$ this year that Jay can relate to...
> >
> > Denny
> >
>
>


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[nobody]

Thanks Jim. I already have the Aztec service manual and have
started reading the Southwind section.

Ronnie

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Ronnie,
> If you don't already have it, I could dig out the Southwind section of our
> Aztec Service Manual and forward you the pages. It's pretty extensive and
> contains troubleshooting charts.
> Jim
>
> "nobody" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Thanks for the detailed response, Denny. Good looking
> > Apache, by the way. I sent an inquiry to C&D and got
> > a prompt response this morning. Guess it is time to do some
> > troubleshooting on my end.
> >
> > Ronnie
> >
> > "Denny" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > > As Jay commented, Fat Albert is a 1957 Apache - fat and spoiled...
> > >
> > > The Aztec I referred to is a D model, that came from a sheriff's
> > > auction out of Texas... It was a drug seizure plane that occurred in
a
> > > hail of gunfire, so it was named, The Blue Shooter... It's heater
> > > (Janitrol as I remember) worked well... So well, that on one dark and
> > > steely cold morning, flying from Michigan to Florida in IFR
conditions,
> > > it kept overheating the brand new S-TEC 50 autopilot causing it to
> > > silently and sneakily go off line at the most inconvenient moments...
> > > The controllers at Greenville, South Carolina were convinced I was
> > > snorting something... The Blue Shooter is currently hauling bank
> > > checks across the North Sea, 6 nights a week...
> > >
> > > Fat Albert's old Southwind worked, but did not handle bitter cold
> > > adequately... The difference with this new C&D heater is night and
> > > day... C&D has a PMA for the heater so no paperwork other than the
> > > A&P's entry in the log is required... There was a bit of work even
> > > though it is roughly the same size and clamped right into the
ductwork,
> > > the various parts are not in the same location around the can... One
> > > blower was mounted on a shelf above it... The most work was for the
new
> > > switch and wiring harness... The old wiring was asbestos and cloth
> > > cover, still serviceable, but not pretty or desireable, and the C&D
> > > warranty requires the new switch with teflon wiring... At this point I
> > > am happy as a clam in mud, with it... We will see how it fares over
the
> > > next few years... An interesting point is that the combustion air,
fan
> > > motor has a ram air flow switch which not only turns off the
> > > electricity to the blower motor but also raises the brushes off the
> > > commutator so they don't wear as the fan is rotated by the ram air...
> > > They claim a 4,000 hour life rating on the combustion air, fan
motor...
> > >
> > > The annual is just completing, I will post a blow by blow on that in a
> > > few days... Mucho $$ this year that Jay can relate to...
> > >
> > > Denny
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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