Aircraft in Corporation or LLC?

[Harry Shin]

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if anyone has their aircraft in a Corporation or Limited
Liability Company? If so, can you write off maintenance/hangar costs (vs
State corporation fees), and also protect your personal assets more
effectively?

Thanks,
Harry

[Harry Shin]

Uh, never mind...I just got off the phone with my friend who is a CPA. This
won't work since the corporation is not formed as a business. Apparently
there are rules, called "Hobby Laws" which discourage people trying to write
off personal, recreational activities as corporation costs...

"Harry Shin" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has their aircraft in a Corporation or Limited
> Liability Company? If so, can you write off maintenance/hangar costs (vs
> State corporation fees), and also protect your personal assets more
> effectively?
>
> Thanks,
> Harry
>
>

[Dude]

Get a different accountant.

Unless you find the many possible ways to make your plane into a non-hobby
not practical, its a simple thing to do. The IRS cannot label your aircraft
as a hobby or luxury as easily as they can other things do to the fine work
of Bob Dole and other congress members. Your plane is presumed to be a
perfectly legitimate business asset unless you make it otherwise. This is
much differrent from raising animals, parachuting, and other expensive
hobbies.

How much flying do you do? What for? What's your profession? Would you be
willing to rent your airplane to a few friends or even strangers?

If your CPA didn't go over this with you, he was not qualified to answer
your question.




"Harry Shin" > wrote in message
...
> Uh, never mind...I just got off the phone with my friend who is a CPA.
> This
> won't work since the corporation is not formed as a business. Apparently
> there are rules, called "Hobby Laws" which discourage people trying to
> write
> off personal, recreational activities as corporation costs...
>
> "Harry Shin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone has their aircraft in a Corporation or Limited
>> Liability Company? If so, can you write off maintenance/hangar costs (vs
>> State corporation fees), and also protect your personal assets more
>> effectively?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Harry
>>
>>
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

I was told if I may be able to use my airplane for my commercial flight
training or use it strictly as a time builder to help obtain further ratings
it may be able to be used as a valid educational expense for new career
training write off or something like that. My tax attorney is looking in to
this a little further for me will find out more after the holidays.


"Dude" > wrote in message
...
> Get a different accountant.
>
> Unless you find the many possible ways to make your plane into a non-hobby
> not practical, its a simple thing to do. The IRS cannot label your
aircraft
> as a hobby or luxury as easily as they can other things do to the fine
work
> of Bob Dole and other congress members. Your plane is presumed to be a
> perfectly legitimate business asset unless you make it otherwise. This is
> much differrent from raising animals, parachuting, and other expensive
> hobbies.
>
> How much flying do you do? What for? What's your profession? Would you
be
> willing to rent your airplane to a few friends or even strangers?
>
> If your CPA didn't go over this with you, he was not qualified to answer
> your question.
>
>
>
>
> "Harry Shin" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Uh, never mind...I just got off the phone with my friend who is a CPA.
> > This
> > won't work since the corporation is not formed as a business.
Apparently
> > there are rules, called "Hobby Laws" which discourage people trying to
> > write
> > off personal, recreational activities as corporation costs...
> >
> > "Harry Shin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hi Guys,
> >>
> >> I was wondering if anyone has their aircraft in a Corporation or
Limited
> >> Liability Company? If so, can you write off maintenance/hangar costs
(vs
> >> State corporation fees), and also protect your personal assets more
> >> effectively?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Harry
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
>I was told if I may be able to use my airplane for my commercial flight
> training or use it strictly as a time builder to help obtain further
> ratings
> it may be able to be used as a valid educational expense for new career
> training write off or something like that. My tax attorney is looking in
> to
> this a little further for me will find out more after the holidays.
>

If your "tax attorney" has to look into this you need a new tax attorney.
Education or training for a new career is never deductible. Education to
advance yourself in your current career is deductible so, if you are
currently employed as a commercial pilot, training for your ATP would be
deductible.

Mike
MU-2


> "Dude" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Get a different accountant.
>>
>> Unless you find the many possible ways to make your plane into a
>> non-hobby
>> not practical, its a simple thing to do. The IRS cannot label your
> aircraft
>> as a hobby or luxury as easily as they can other things do to the fine
> work
>> of Bob Dole and other congress members. Your plane is presumed to be a
>> perfectly legitimate business asset unless you make it otherwise. This is
>> much differrent from raising animals, parachuting, and other expensive
>> hobbies.
>>
>> How much flying do you do? What for? What's your profession? Would you
> be
>> willing to rent your airplane to a few friends or even strangers?
>>
>> If your CPA didn't go over this with you, he was not qualified to answer
>> your question.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Harry Shin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Uh, never mind...I just got off the phone with my friend who is a CPA.
>> > This
>> > won't work since the corporation is not formed as a business.
> Apparently
>> > there are rules, called "Hobby Laws" which discourage people trying to
>> > write
>> > off personal, recreational activities as corporation costs...
>> >
>> > "Harry Shin" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Hi Guys,
>> >>
>> >> I was wondering if anyone has their aircraft in a Corporation or
> Limited
>> >> Liability Company? If so, can you write off maintenance/hangar costs
> (vs
>> >> State corporation fees), and also protect your personal assets more
>> >> effectively?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Harry
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

You need to prove the training is required for you to keep your current
job. Training for another job is not deductable.

[Robert M. Gary]

In addition to people telling you that it doesn't help you write stuff
off there is another down side. In some states (California for
instance) there is a minimum annual franchise tax on both corps and
LLCs of $800/yr.

[C J Campbell]

"Harry Shin" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has their aircraft in a Corporation or Limited
> Liability Company? If so, can you write off maintenance/hangar costs (vs
> State corporation fees), and also protect your personal assets more
> effectively?

My airplanes are owned by an S-Corp.

Since I am a professional pilot and flight instructor, lease my plane for
charters, and pay the same rent that I charge others when using it for
personal travel, it is easy to demonstrate the business purpose of the
airplane.

Your mileage may vary. See your professional tax advisor.

[C J Campbell]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> You need to prove the training is required for you to keep your current
> job. Training for another job is not deductable.

That used to be true; there are now some circumstances allowing you to
deduct educational costs.

See a tax advisor and forget Usenet.

[C Kingsbury]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I was told if I may be able to use my airplane for my commercial flight
> > training or use it strictly as a time builder to help obtain further
> > ratings
> > it may be able to be used as a valid educational expense for new career
> > training write off or something like that. My tax attorney is looking in
>
> If your "tax attorney" has to look into this you need a new tax attorney.
> Education or training for a new career is never deductible. Education to

I wouldn't shoot quite so fast. Depending on your employment status and
income level there are more government programs out there than even good
CPAs are often aware of. Back in 2000 the gub'mint helped me pay for night
school classes in programming at my local community college, thanks to the
"Hope Credit" or something like that. Added two simple pages (none of which
asked at all about job-relatedness) to my tax return and got me about $1000,
IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar ways to write off flight
training, under at least some circumstances.

-cwk.

[Newps]

C Kingsbury wrote:

>
> I wouldn't shoot quite so fast. Depending on your employment status and
> income level there are more government programs out there than even good
> CPAs are often aware of. Back in 2000 the gub'mint helped me pay for night
> school classes in programming at my local community college, thanks to the
> "Hope Credit" or something like that. Added two simple pages (none of which
> asked at all about job-relatedness) to my tax return and got me about $1000,
> IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar ways to write off flight
> training, under at least some circumstances.

Absolutely, as a controller I have written off my flight training as
continuing training for ATC.

[Matt Whiting]

Newps wrote:

>
>
> C Kingsbury wrote:
>
>>
>> I wouldn't shoot quite so fast. Depending on your employment status and
>> income level there are more government programs out there than even good
>> CPAs are often aware of. Back in 2000 the gub'mint helped me pay for
>> night
>> school classes in programming at my local community college, thanks to
>> the
>> "Hope Credit" or something like that. Added two simple pages (none of
>> which
>> asked at all about job-relatedness) to my tax return and got me about
>> $1000,
>> IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar ways to write off
>> flight
>> training, under at least some circumstances.
>
>
> Absolutely, as a controller I have written off my flight training as
> continuing training for ATC.

I thought the education or training had to be "required" in order to
keep your job or advance in your field. Is flight training really
required by the FAA for controllers?

Matt

[Newps]

Matt Whiting wrote:

>>
>> Absolutely, as a controller I have written off my flight training as
>> continuing training for ATC.
>
>
> I thought the education or training had to be "required" in order to
> keep your job or advance in your field.

If the training is required to keep your job it is not deductible, that
statement itself is in the IRS regs. If the training is to improve
yourself and your ability to do your job then it is deductible.


Is flight training really
> required by the FAA for controllers?

Not required at all.

[Matt Whiting]

Matt Whiting wrote:

> Newps wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> C Kingsbury wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I wouldn't shoot quite so fast. Depending on your employment status and
>>> income level there are more government programs out there than even good
>>> CPAs are often aware of. Back in 2000 the gub'mint helped me pay for
>>> night
>>> school classes in programming at my local community college, thanks
>>> to the
>>> "Hope Credit" or something like that. Added two simple pages (none of
>>> which
>>> asked at all about job-relatedness) to my tax return and got me about
>>> $1000,
>>> IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar ways to write off
>>> flight
>>> training, under at least some circumstances.
>>
>>
>>
>> Absolutely, as a controller I have written off my flight training as
>> continuing training for ATC.
>
>
> I thought the education or training had to be "required" in order to
> keep your job or advance in your field. Is flight training really
> required by the FAA for controllers?

From reading this (page 61), I'd hate to have an IRS audit and try to
explain how flight training is directly related to increasing your
skills as a controller, since I don't believe flight training is any
part of the ATC curriculum.


Matt

[Newps]

Matt Whiting wrote:

>
>
> From reading this (page 61), I'd hate to have an IRS audit and try to
> explain how flight training is directly related to increasing your
> skills as a controller, since I don't believe flight training is any
> part of the ATC curriculum.

Flight training is a slam dunk simple example at increasing my skills as
a controller. We had an entire training program that let controllers
ride in the jumpseats of airliners, air taxis, etc.