time for avionics upgrade...

[kontiki]

I'm thinking seriously now about upgrading the avionics in my Comanche.
An HSI would be a nice thing to have too (once you've flown something with
one you become a believer) so I'm thinking of combining the effort and
putting one of them in too. Maybe a GNS 430 and keeping the 155 as my
second NavCom. Currently I have a King stack... 155s and an ADF.

I don't want to go broke doing this so what are you guys thinking along
those lines? I live in Southeast Georgia so any input on where to have this
done would be a tremendous help also. I've been going blind doing Google
searches about avionics and avionics shops. :^o

TIA
Scott
N6482P

[Jim Burns]

You've got 2 KX 155's now correct? If you have the panel space, why not
save some money and drop down to an IFR certified GPS only box with most of
the features of a 430? Our Aztec came with 2 155's and a KLN 89B gps. We
were all used to flying behind a 430 but couldn't justify a 430, indicator,
plus install. We opted to swap out the 89B for a KLN 94. Granted, it was
just a box swap, we didn't have to install any annunciators or indicator
because they were already there. I like the larger screen of the 430 but
for us it was a no brainer.

ADF? We don't have one and frankly I miss it more than I ever thought I
would. Why? It's simply a simple device. But 1/2 the time they don't
work. If you've got one that works, I'd keep it and worry about what should
fill that hole when it goes south. It doesn't owe you anything.

DME? We've got one and use it. Would we buy a new one? I doubt it.

I'd like a new PS 3000 six place intercom. Our audio panel is fine, but our
intercom is only 4 place and doesn't have music input or some of the nice PS
features.

Inflight weather seems to be a fast paced growing trend. Maybe something
worth keeping in mind when buying boxes. Don't paint yourself into a
corner.

Jim


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[Doug Vetter]

kontiki wrote:
> I'm thinking seriously now about upgrading the avionics in my
> Comanche. An HSI would be a nice thing to have too (once you've flown
> something with one you become a believer) so I'm thinking of
> combining the effort and putting one of them in too. Maybe a GNS 430
> and keeping the 155 as my second NavCom. Currently I have a King
> stack... 155s and an ADF. I don't want to go broke doing this so what
> are you guys thinking along those lines?

The KX155 is a good radio, though it has been proven to cause harmful
interference with certain GPSs when tuned to certain frequencies. For
what it's worth, I'm familiar with two 155/430 installations that seem
to work well. The KX165 doesn't have that problem, but it comes in 28V
only, and the power converters aren't worth the money.

If you must have an HSI, I would generally avoid spending the money on a
traditional analog HSI head. They're just not worth the money based on
what an EHSI can give you. My philosophy in these situations is "In for
a penny..."

The only EHSI worth considering right now is this:

http://www.avionicswest.com/archive/sn3500.htm#2004

You may be tempted to buy its predecessor (SN3308), but it's not very
readable off axis or under full sun. To top it off, the bulb must be
replaced at regular intervals and pulling it out of the panel each time
can be a pain in the ass.

Personally, if I had $10-15K to spend on an HSI, I'd sooner drop the
money into an Avidyne EX500 moving map display with terrain, chartview
and XM satellite weather subscription. Lot more useful if you do "real"
IFR. An autopilot using GPS steering (like the STEC55 or new Chelton
unit) don't need a fancy rotating card to fly.

As far as the 430 is concerned, at about $10.5K installed with a new
GI106 CDI, it's probably the biggest bang for the buck on the market
right now. Some might argue that the CNX80/GNS480 takes that crown, but
that depends on the kind of flying you do and whether $3K extra is a lot
to you. The only thing I really miss with the 430 is support for
airways. It really stinks having to enter every waypoint along a route,
but then again, it forces one to review the entire route before
departure...and that's not a bad thing. And then there are the
OUTSTANDING ergonomics and user interface of the 430. I've used the 480
enough to know I don't like the interface nearly as much.

As far as the ADF is concerned, unless it's the KR87 or some other
slimline unit that doesn't take up precious panel space, and in fine
working order, my advice would be to dump it. GPS can substitute for
it, and you should consider the cost of maintaining it over the long haul.

You may also want to consider a Garmin GTX330 Mode S transponder.
Thanks to the masters of paranoia over at the Transportation Stupidity
Agency, a working transponder is a critical asset. The 330 adds traffic
information services, which coincidentally can be displayed on both the
430 and the Avidyne EX500.

I've written a couple articles on avionics updates over the last couple
years. They're on my website...click through

Aviation->Articles->Maintenance

For some realistic prices on the equipment I've mentioned, check out the
shop I use:

http://www.pennavionics.com/

HTH,

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[Dan Luke]

"Doug Vetter" wrote:
> The only EHSI worth considering right now is this:
>
> http://www.avionicswest.com/archive/sn3500.htm#2004

What's wrong with this one?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1C122CF9

[Mike Rapoport]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doug Vetter" wrote:
>> The only EHSI worth considering right now is this:
>>
>> http://www.avionicswest.com/archive/sn3500.htm#2004
>
> What's wrong with this one?
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1C122CF9
>
>

The price. I wonder if anybody has purchased one of these.

Mike
MU-2

[Dan Luke]

> The price. I wonder if anybody has purchased one of these.

What does the new Sandel cost?

[kontiki]

Maybe I won't think about an HSI after all. 12K is a lot of money.
The GPS/NAV/COM is still on the agenda though.

Dan Luke wrote:
>>The price. I wonder if anybody has purchased one of these.
>
>
> What does the new Sandel cost?
>
>

[Dave Butler]

kontiki wrote:
> Maybe I won't think about an HSI after all. 12K is a lot of money.
> The GPS/NAV/COM is still on the agenda though.

You can get a reconditioned NSD360A for about $3500 (but our avionics shop won't
warranty it), or a reconditioned KCS-55A for about $5200 (but it doesn't work
with our autopilot).

Check out http://www.avionix.com, click on avionics guidebook, then HSI.

[Doug Vetter]

Dan Luke wrote:
> "Doug Vetter" wrote:
> What's wrong with this one?

(link to King EHSI snipped)

First, at $12K the King is significantly more expensive, while the
Sandel (at least the now discontinued 3308) was about $8K new.

Second, the Sandel interfaces to ANYTHING and can, given the correct
inputs, generate signals to drive other stuff. It acts like a high-tech
junction box.

The only advantage the King has over the Sandel 3308 (IMHO) is the
readability of the display under daytime lighting conditions. I
personally have no qualms about the Sandel at night...it's way nice.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[Doug Vetter]

kontiki wrote:
> Maybe I won't think about an HSI after all. 12K is a lot of money.
> The GPS/NAV/COM is still on the agenda though.

As I said, there are better things to spend your limited budget on.

However, for what it's worth, it's a common misconception that you NEED
a $10K remote gyro and flux gate, etc. to drive a Sandel. You can
actually drive it with DG with heading bootstrap output (such as an STEC
DG).

While driving it with a traditional DG won't keep the heading sync'd
automatically, my experience with STEC gyros is that they rarely drift
more then 3-5 degrees per HOUR in cruise, and at $1800 they're a hell of
a lot cheaper than a remote gyro. And, at least in the case of the
3308, where bulb failure is a real concern, the remote gyro won't do
jack to help you navigate, while a bootstrap DG will provide you with a
backup heading reference.

Good luck in your search, and safe flying,

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[Mike Rapoport]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
>> The price. I wonder if anybody has purchased one of these.
>
> What does the new Sandel cost?
>
>
Not sure but I think quite a bit less. Keep in mind that this is just the
display you still need the gyro, fluxgate and compensator to have a working
system.

Mike
MU-2

[Ben Jackson]

In article t>,
Mike Rapoport > wrote:
>> What's wrong with this one?
>>
>> [KI 825]
>
>The price. I wonder if anybody has purchased one of these.

Aww, come on, they had a $50 core credit for your KI 525 for a long time!
What a deal!

ok, more than $50, but not enough more
--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[C Kingsbury]

What does "going broke" mean to you? Depending on context you can spend $600
and get a lot, or $20,000 and get a little.

I agree that an HSI is very nice to have, but it really only confers a
significant advantage during the approach phase. Admittedly this is a very
good time to gain an advantage, but for similar amounts of money ($5-10k)
you can add any of datalink weather, TIS, or pseudo-TAWS to a GNS-430.
Weather would be my first choice, as it helps in both IFR and VFR, and
contributes to the overall success of the flight, and not merely making an
approach or hold entry easier.

I spent 2 hours banging around in some pretty thick clag in my 172, equipped
with two nav/coms, an M1 loran, and a flaky ADF. My wish list would be,
roughly, a moving-map GPS, weather, and an autopilot, in that order. I
normally only fly low IFR with my instructor, otherwise I'd put the
autopilot up higher. If I had to choose between the 430 and 480, I'd go with
the 480 because it has airways support, and airways rule the Northeast. But
frankly either one would be great.

As to the ADF, I'd keep it so long as it works and doesn't take up needed
space. But I wouldn't put another penny into it.

-cwk.