Aircraft storage

[#1ACGuy]

How long can an aircraft sit unused before the fuel gums up and contaminates
the fuel system?
For instance, if I leave a motorcycle sit too long without a fuel stabilizer
added to the gas, the gas goes bad after a few months and gums up the carbs.
The entire fuel system is affected after a while. Big problem if you try to
store an automobile without lots of prep since fuel lines and everything can
gum up.
What is the life of av gas before it goes bad?
If it's like white gas it can sit almost indefinately. If it's like auto
fuel it can't sit for long.
I ask because some of these planes seem like they're for sale for over a
year or more, and I wonder what kind of problems they have due to sitting
besides the obvious dry startup with no oil on the cam etc. (as if that
isn't enough of a problem)
Alex



--
My 2¢ YMMV

[G.R. Patterson III]

#1ACGuy wrote:
>
> If it's like white gas it can sit almost indefinately. If it's like auto
> fuel it can't sit for long.

uhhh..... white gas is a type of unleaded auto gas.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[#1ACGuy]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> #1ACGuy wrote:
> >
> > If it's like white gas it can sit almost indefinately. If it's like auto
> > fuel it can't sit for long.
>
> uhhh..... white gas is a type of unleaded auto gas.
It may be, but it's much more highly refined and can store for much, much
longer than unleaded auto fuel without gumming up. Auto unleaded will only
store for months, white gas may be good for years.
>
> George Patterson
> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
enterprise.

[G.R. Patterson III]

#1ACGuy wrote:
>
> Auto unleaded will only store for months ....

I've been running my 1940 Ford on the same tank for three years now (obviously I
don't take it anywhere -- just run the engine a while).

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Matt Whiting]

#1ACGuy wrote:

> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>#1ACGuy wrote:
>>
>>>If it's like white gas it can sit almost indefinately. If it's like auto
>>>fuel it can't sit for long.
>>
>>uhhh..... white gas is a type of unleaded auto gas.
>
> It may be, but it's much more highly refined and can store for much, much
> longer than unleaded auto fuel without gumming up. Auto unleaded will only
> store for months, white gas may be good for years.

It isn't a type of unleaded auto gas, it is a type of naphtha, which
isn't gasoline and isn't benzene, but is between the two in the
distillation process.


Matt

[G.R. Patterson III]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> It isn't a type of unleaded auto gas, it is a type of naphtha, which
> isn't gasoline and isn't benzene, but is between the two in the
> distillation process.

Maybe in some circles, but Amoco unleaded gasoline has been called "white gas"
in the South (at least) since I was born (also at least). It's called that
because it's clear.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Matt Whiting]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

>
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>It isn't a type of unleaded auto gas, it is a type of naphtha, which
>>isn't gasoline and isn't benzene, but is between the two in the
>>distillation process.
>
>
> Maybe in some circles, but Amoco unleaded gasoline has been called "white gas"
> in the South (at least) since I was born (also at least). It's called that
> because it's clear.

I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.


Matt

[G.R. Patterson III]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
> Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.

Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage *does*
make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[[email protected]]

G.R. Patterson III > wrote:


> Matt Whiting wrote:
> >
> > I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
> > Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.

> Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage *does*
> make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.
>
> George Patterson
> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

Its a regional thing.

I've never heard anyone refer to any kind of car gasoline as white gas in the
southwest; white gas goes in camp stoves (or used to before propane took
over).

--
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

[Jay Beckman]

> wrote in message
...
> G.R. Patterson III > wrote:
>
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> >
>> > I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford
>> > a
>> > Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.
>
>> Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage
>> *does*
>> make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.
>>
>> George Patterson
>> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
>> enterprise.
>
> Its a regional thing.
>
> I've never heard anyone refer to any kind of car gasoline as white gas in
> the
> southwest; white gas goes in camp stoves (or used to before propane took
> over).
>
> --
> Jim Pennino

Jim,

Same terminology where I grew up in Michigan. White gas = Coleman.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[nuke]

<< How long can an aircraft sit unused before the fuel gums up and contaminates
the fuel system? >><BR><BR>


According to Chevron, a year or more should be no problem for avgas.


--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

[Matt Whiting]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

>
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
>> Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.
>
>
> Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage *does*
> make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.

Of use in the south with respect only to Amoco gas. OK, I guess that
should be sufficient for the rest of the country and world to accept an
incorrect term...

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> G.R. Patterson III > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>>I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
>>> Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.
>
>
>>Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage *does*
>>make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.
>>
>>George Patterson
>> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.
>
>
> Its a regional thing.
>
> I've never heard anyone refer to any kind of car gasoline as white gas in the
> southwest; white gas goes in camp stoves (or used to before propane took
> over).
>

Likewise in the northeast. We call gasoline gas, we call kerosene
kerosene, we call diesel diesel and we call white gas white gas. It
really is pretty straightforward. :-)


Matt

[Michelle P]

white gas to me has always been associated with my grandpa's boat.
Coleman stoves burn Coleman fuel.
Michelle

wrote:

>G.R. Patterson III > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
>>> Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage *does*
>>make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.
>>
>>George Patterson
>> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.
>>
>>
>
>Its a regional thing.
>
>I've never heard anyone refer to any kind of car gasoline as white gas in the
>southwest; white gas goes in camp stoves (or used to before propane took
>over).
>
>
>

[Nathan Young]

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:55:14 GMT, "#1ACGuy" >
wrote:

>How long can an aircraft sit unused before the fuel gums up and contaminates
>the fuel system?
<snip>
>I ask because some of these planes seem like they're for sale for over a
>year or more, and I wonder what kind of problems they have due to sitting
>besides the obvious dry startup with no oil on the cam etc. (as if that
>isn't enough of a problem)

My guess is that most planes for sale are still flying regularly.
There are exceptions to this (ramp or hangar queens and owners forced
into selling because of financial distress), but most owners realize
the worst thing they can do to an aircraft is not to fly it.

Regarding storage, you can 'pickle' an engine to allow VERY long term
storage, however as you point out this does not address the fuel
system. Some planes have bladder tanks, and I imagine it is quite bad
for them to sit dry. Probably the same goes for the fuel lines. Not
to mention the gyro instruments, vac pump, and vac lines.

-Nathan

[[email protected]]

> Maybe in some circles, but Amoco unleaded gasoline has been called
"white gas"
> in the South (at least) since I was born (also at least). It's called
that
> because it's clear.

I remember when I was a kid that you could go to some gas
stations and buy "white gas" from a tank in the back room
(with a handcrank pump). We used it in a Coleman stove.
Then we found out that Amoco premium unleaded could be
used as well, so we used it thereafter (easier to find -
dunno if it was cheaper or not). This was in the '50s in
Ohio. BTW I still have that same Coleman stove, and it
still works.

I have heard that you can store avgas for extended periods -
and I have a way of finding out. I have a trail bike that
has been in storage for a long time (over 10 years). I always
ran it on avgas, and it still has some in the tank. When
I can find a battery for it I'll try starting it and let
you know what happens (was planning to get it going again
anyway).

David Johnson

[#1ACGuy]

Thanks. I'm just trying to get an idea of how avgas stores. I did find some
useful info on the Chevron site.
FWIW, I grew up in Ohio, and remember some stations selling white gas from a
small tank in the back, which I always related to the likes of Coleman fuel.
What I do know for sure, is that seasonal use small engines such as snow
blowers, lawn mowers, or rototillers would be fine after long term storage
as long as we used white gas in them. I remember several neighbors trying
this with gasoline, and no go. Answer from the shops that had to repair
their stuff was always 'shoulda used white gas'. Today I just treat the fuel
in my motorcycles with Sta-bil. People on the motorcycle boards that live in
cold weather areas say that the regular unleaded fuel they get is even
shorter lived today than it was in years past, so they make sure to use
Sta-bil. I don't think anyone uses white gas anymore. Av gas just seems so
much more refined. It quickly evaperates without any lingering smell,
similar to lantern fuel. I don't know how people that run auto gas in their
planes keep everything from smelling like gas all the time. For instance, I
sure wouldn't want to put my fuel sampling cup back in my flight bag after
sumping tanks with auto fuel in them. Seems like everything in the bag and
the plane itself would smell like gas for weeks. Av gas, no problem, no
smell.
Alex
>
> My guess is that most planes for sale are still flying regularly.
> There are exceptions to this (ramp or hangar queens and owners forced
> into selling because of financial distress), but most owners realize
> the worst thing they can do to an aircraft is not to fly it.
>
> Regarding storage, you can 'pickle' an engine to allow VERY long term
> storage, however as you point out this does not address the fuel
> system. Some planes have bladder tanks, and I imagine it is quite bad
> for them to sit dry. Probably the same goes for the fuel lines. Not
> to mention the gyro instruments, vac pump, and vac lines.
>
> -Nathan
>

[nuke]

<< Of use in the south with respect only to Amoco gas. OK, I guess that
should be sufficient for the rest of the country and world to accept an
incorrect term...

Matt >><BR><BR>


Grew up in the south. Never heard of that one before. White gas is for camp
stoves.


--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

[Rich]

Don't they call Bass "Trout" in some places in the South, too?

G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
>> Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.
>
>
> Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage *does*
> make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.
>
> George Patterson
> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Matt Whiting]

Rich wrote:

> Don't they call Bass "Trout" in some places in the South, too?
>
> G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
>>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>> I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
>>> Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common
>> usage *does*
>> make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.
>>
>> George Patterson
>> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
>> enterprise.

Beats me, but that is pretty funny! :-)


Matt

[[email protected]]

G.R. Patterson III wrote :

>I've been running my 1940 Ford on the same tank for three years now
(obviously I
>don't take it anywhere -- just run the engine a while).

You've been fortunate to get a tank of extremely stable gasoline.
Over the last few decades, I've stored a number of motorcycles in my
garage for varying periods. I found that autogas would start to smell
funny after a year. After 2 years, it transformed itself into
something that looked and smelled exactly like turpentine. Needless to
say, by the time the fuel got to that point, the carburetor jets were
hopelessly clogged with a nasty gummy substance.

If you use a gasoline stabilizer like Sta-bil, auto gas can last
quite a bit longer. Fuel makers recognize that planes may go awhile
on the same tank of gas, so they formulate avgas accordingly. Last
time I checked, Chevron and BP both said their avgas would be fine
after a year.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Margy Natalie]

George, were you in a rural area? Most states dyed their "farm" gas a color so it
would be obvious if folks were using farm gas in their cars. Hence car gas was
"white", but that wasn't the White Gas they sold for Coleman stoves.

Margy

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
> >
> > I won't dispute that, but still doesn't make it so. I can call a Ford a
> > Chevy also, but it doesn't make it so.
>
> Your opinion, but mine is that better than half a century of common usage *does*
> make it so. White gas is unleaded car gas.
>
> George Patterson
> The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Margy Natalie wrote:
>
> George, were you in a rural area?

Yes.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Margy Natalie wrote:
>
> Hence car gas was
> "white", but that wasn't the White Gas they sold for Coleman stoves.

Actually, car gas was a yellow or amber color (I suppose from the lead). Only
Amoco sold unleaded in the fifties, so that's where we went to fill up the
Coleman lantern.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Matt Whiting]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

>
> Margy Natalie wrote:
>
>>Hence car gas was
>>"white", but that wasn't the White Gas they sold for Coleman stoves.
>
>
> Actually, car gas was a yellow or amber color (I suppose from the lead). Only
> Amoco sold unleaded in the fifties, so that's where we went to fill up the
> Coleman lantern.

What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
lanterns and stoves?

Matt

[G.R. Patterson III]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
> lanterns and stoves?

As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman Fuel"
until the mid-70s.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Matt Whiting]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

>
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
>>lanterns and stoves?
>
>
> As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman Fuel"
> until the mid-70s.

I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.


Matt

[Roy Smith]

In article >,
Matt Whiting > wrote:

> G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
> >
> > Matt Whiting wrote:
> >
> >>What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
> >>lanterns and stoves?
> >
> >
> > As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman
> > Fuel"
> > until the mid-70s.
>
> I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
> go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
> find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.
>
>
> Matt

The Coleman web site claims they've been making gas lanterns for over
100 years. Is Coleman fuel anything other than gasoline without the
additives added to motor fuel?

[[email protected]]

Roy Smith > wrote:
> In article >,
> Matt Whiting > wrote:

> > G.R. Patterson III wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Matt Whiting wrote:
> > >
> > >>What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
> > >>lanterns and stoves?
> > >
> > >
> > > As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman
> > > Fuel"
> > > until the mid-70s.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
> > go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
> > find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.
> >
> >
> > Matt

> The Coleman web site claims they've been making gas lanterns for over
> 100 years. Is Coleman fuel anything other than gasoline without the
> additives added to motor fuel?

Its basically naptha.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
> go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
> find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.

Just read a can of it at a sporting goods shop tonight. The words "white gas" do
not occurr anywhere on the package. It's called "fuel/combustible". Interesting
enough the label says it's intended to be used in lanterns and appliances that
"burn unleaded gasoline."

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

[Roger]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:31:08 -0500, Matt Whiting
> wrote:

>G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
>>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>>>What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
>>>lanterns and stoves?
>>
>>
>> As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman Fuel"
>> until the mid-70s.

We used "White Gas" in our "Camp Stove" when I was a kid in the 40s.
It's been around for a longggg time.

The camp stove, had one of those pressurized (you pump it up) fuel
tanks. You poured in the white gas, pumped it up, primed the burners,
lit the fire to preheat the vaporizers and hoped it was hot enough to
run when you turned on the fuel.

I can still remember crawling out of the tent and smelling breakfast.
Damn near froze in August camping near Thunder bay Ontario.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
>go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
>find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.


>
>
>Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article >,
> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
>>>>lanterns and stoves?
>>>
>>>
>>>As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman
>>>Fuel"
>>>until the mid-70s.
>>
>>I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
>>go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
>>find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.
>>
>>
>>Matt
>
>
> The Coleman web site claims they've been making gas lanterns for over
> 100 years. Is Coleman fuel anything other than gasoline without the
> additives added to motor fuel?

I don't know for sure, but what I've found searching aroung suggests it
is a little different. However, I honestly don't know what the chemical
distinction is between gasoline and naptha. What I've read says that
Coleman fuel is naptha and it said it was not the same as unleaded
gasoline, but it sounds like it is right next two it off the
fractionating tower.


Matt

[Jay Somerset]

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:08:34 -0500, Roy Smith > wrote:

> In article >,
> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
> > G.R. Patterson III wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Matt Whiting wrote:
> > >
> > >>What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
> > >>lanterns and stoves?
> > >
> > >
> > > As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman
> > > Fuel"
> > > until the mid-70s.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
> > go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
> > find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.
>

The old name for fuel for "Coleman" lamps was "naphtha" It was more highly
refined than gasoline, and had no coloration added. It smelled distincly
different from automotive gasoline. It was the only acceptable fuel for the
pressurized mantle-type lanterns back then, and it was usually strained
through an extremely fine metal seive lined with a cloth filter to ensure
than no particulate matter got into the burner pipes and valve.

Naphtha was used in these types of lanterns going back to the 1930's if not
earlier. The earliest Coleman lanterns even had mica windows, rather than a
glass surround.

> > Matt
>
> The Coleman web site claims they've been making gas lanterns for over
> 100 years. Is Coleman fuel anything other than gasoline without the
> additives added to motor fuel?

[Jay Somerset]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:31:29 -0500, Roger
> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:31:08 -0500, Matt Whiting
> > wrote:
>
> >G.R. Patterson III wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Matt Whiting wrote:
> >>
> >>>What did you call the real white gas that Coleman and others sell for
> >>>lanterns and stoves?
> >>
> >>
> >> As far as I know, they didn't sell that in the 50s. I never saw "Coleman Fuel"
> >> until the mid-70s.
>
> We used "White Gas" in our "Camp Stove" when I was a kid in the 40s.
> It's been around for a longggg time.
>
> The camp stove, had one of those pressurized (you pump it up) fuel
> tanks. You poured in the white gas, pumped it up, primed the burners,
> lit the fire to preheat the vaporizers and hoped it was hot enough to
> run when you turned on the fuel.

"White gas" was used more for outboard motors which could not tolerate the
tetraethyl lead additives. It would wrok on stoves, but was bad for the
hand-pump-pressurized mantle-type lanterns, as it did not burn cleanly
enough to avoid contaminating the mantles. Naptha (naphtha) was what we
always used in "Coleman" lamps. Slightly more highly refined than white gas
(higher boiling point fraction) which vaporized better and burned
cleaner/hotter.

>
> I can still remember crawling out of the tent and smelling breakfast.
> Damn near froze in August camping near Thunder bay Ontario.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
> (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> >
> >I'm pretty sure it was availabe in the late 60s, but my memory doesn't
> >go back any farther than that! I've been searching around trying to
> >find the history of Coleman fuel, aka "white gas", but no luck yet.
>
>
> >
> >
> >Matt

[[email protected]]

>
> I have heard that you can store avgas for extended periods -
> and I have a way of finding out. I have a trail bike that
> has been in storage for a long time (over 10 years). I always
> ran it on avgas, and it still has some in the tank. When
> I can find a battery for it I'll try starting it and let
> you know what happens (was planning to get it going again
> anyway).
>
> David Johnson

UPDATE:

Found a battery for the bike (a Honda Trail 90, vintage 1979) and
tried it out today. It started with no more difficulty than I would
expect of an engine that had been sitting a long time. It was a
bit cranky till it warmed up, then ran fine - not unexpected. This
was with the gas in the tank - for who knows how long. I did drain
an ounce or so from the carb (using the sump drain), and it came
out perfectly clean. I inspected the tank with a flashlight, and it
is also perfectly clean - just like new. The gas is a reddish color -
probably 80 octane. The only items needing attention are the foam
air filter element and rubber tank gasket (both disintegrating). I
took the filter out pending obtaining a replacement.

The last time this bike was used on the road was 1982 (still has
the '82 sticker on it). I do remember getting it running again
about 10 years ago, but never did anything with it other than
ride it around my property a couple of times.

So it looks to me as though avgas will keep almost indefinitely -
as I had read somewhere.

David Johnson

[#1ACGuy]

Good to know it doesn't gum up with age-----Alex
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> >
> > I have heard that you can store avgas for extended periods -
> > and I have a way of finding out. I have a trail bike that
> > has been in storage for a long time (over 10 years). I always
> > ran it on avgas, and it still has some in the tank. When
> > I can find a battery for it I'll try starting it and let
> > you know what happens (was planning to get it going again
> > anyway).
> >
> > David Johnson
>
> UPDATE:
>
> Found a battery for the bike (a Honda Trail 90, vintage 1979) and
> tried it out today. It started with no more difficulty than I would
> expect of an engine that had been sitting a long time. It was a
> bit cranky till it warmed up, then ran fine - not unexpected. This
> was with the gas in the tank - for who knows how long. I did drain
> an ounce or so from the carb (using the sump drain), and it came
> out perfectly clean. I inspected the tank with a flashlight, and it
> is also perfectly clean - just like new. The gas is a reddish color -
> probably 80 octane. The only items needing attention are the foam
> air filter element and rubber tank gasket (both disintegrating). I
> took the filter out pending obtaining a replacement.
>
> The last time this bike was used on the road was 1982 (still has
> the '82 sticker on it). I do remember getting it running again
> about 10 years ago, but never did anything with it other than
> ride it around my property a couple of times.
>
> So it looks to me as though avgas will keep almost indefinitely -
> as I had read somewhere.
>
> David Johnson
>

[nrp]

The term "white gas" as used in southern US might have come from
standard oil's White Crown Gas which was of premium octane.

I think of white gas as Coleman fuel. It needs to be only a
hydrocarbon with no requirement for octane ratings etc. Maybe it would
work in small low compression engines, at least others say it will.

I had a mostly empty stored can of Coleman fuel go royally sour after
several years. Allowing the surface to be exposed to air might have
caused it. The same thing probably applies to autofuel, but maybe to a
lesser degree. Colder temps will probably also improve any fuel's
storage life.

I agree autofuel stinks, although I understand that is due to the MTBE
components allowed for octane enhancement. Ethanol laced fuels (not
permitted of course for aircraft use) will go bad in just a few months.