Aviation: A&P Mechanic

[disgusted]

Hi, I'm a recent gradute of an A&P school, looking for a career in
aircraft. I'm not into GA but, willing to if something is in the S.E. area
of the U.S. Prefer commercial or military manufacturing.

[Toks Desalu]

You might want to check the reputed career search engine like Monster.com,
Careers.msn.com, etc. You will find something in there.


Toks Desalu

"disgusted" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, I'm a recent gradute of an A&P school, looking for a career in
> aircraft. I'm not into GA but, willing to if something is in the S.E. area
> of the U.S. Prefer commercial or military manufacturing.

[Don Hammer]

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:32:54 GMT, disgusted >
wrotD:

>Hi, I'm a recent gradute of an A&P school, looking for a career in
>aircraft. I'm not into GA but, willing to if something is in the S.E. area
>of the U.S. Prefer commercial or military manufacturing.

Check with Gulfstream in Savannah, GA. If you want to learn
maintenance, stay away from manufacturing and head to the service
center. A few years there and if you learn all you can, you'll be a
candidate for a corporate job where the real money is. Good luck.

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[Maule Driver]

A different handle would be nice too.

"disgusted" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, I'm a recent gradute of an A&P school, looking for a career in
> aircraft. I'm not into GA but, willing to if something is in the S.E. area
> of the U.S. Prefer commercial or military manufacturing.

[Denny]

Of all the people who have earned their A&P license, something like
25% have never exercised the privileges of the certificate. That should
tell you something. I know several people who graduated approved
programs and never got the license. A&P schools are a scam because the
only thing you learn is to pass the test-if you are lucky. I think the
_only_ way to get the license should be the experience route (but
homebuilding and restoring should count.)

[Don Hammer]

I think the
>_only_ way to get the license should be the experience route (but
>homebuilding and restoring should count.)

The problem with that is you don't end up with a good grounding for a
career past being somewhat knowledgeable of small aircraft
construction. Similarly, four years of college only gives you a
license to learn and a good base to grow from. A&P school is no
different in that it gets into areas and theory that you'll never get
building a small plane. I suggest you choose your school wisely, just
like picking any other center of higher education, there are good and
bad ones out there.

Remember also, even though the FAA mandated syllabus is about little
airplanes and theory, the money is in corporate jets. I suggest that
you study towards that end. We place well-rounded maintenance
technicians with corporate operators all the time at salaries of $65K
to well over $100K, but I stress - well-rounded. I can guarantee you
that none of them did it all on their own.

In the movie "The Graduate" the word was plastics. In aircraft
maintenance today it's electronics. Modern jet aircraft are
mechanically so reliable, it is all the stuff with wires attached that
fails. Learn all the electrical theory you can, it'll pay off in
spades. To maintain an aircraft like a Gulfstream your tools are
meters, buss readers, and oscilloscopes. The engines get the plugs
and filters changed every 600 hours or so and don't come off until the
4000 hour mid-life inspection or 8000 hour overhaul. I can honestly
say that in over 30 years in aircraft maintenance, I've never had to
build anything and probably driven less than a couple of hundred
rivets. In other words, building and maintaining are two different
things.




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[[email protected]]

The U.S. has to be the easiest place in the world to get an aircraft
mechanic's ticket. Here in Canada there are four requirements: Formal
training, which normally takes place in a tech school and will take
close to two years; Experience, which is 48 months, and up to 24 months
of the tech school training may count toward that, but in any case it
will take you four years in total; Tasks, which must include at least
70% of the ATA tasks listed for the type of aircraft the license
covers; And four written exams, same as in the US, except that in
Canada you can't get exam question and answer books: you have to
actually know the stuff, and you have no idea what they might ask you.
All of the schooling, experience and tasks have to be documented and
certified. There are two Maintenance licences, the M1 which covers all
non-turbojet, non-transport category aircraft, and the M2 which covers
the rest. There's an S (structural) license, and an E (avionics)
license, too. Restoration can count but it has to be done under the
supervision of a licensed mechanic. Homebuilts don't count: they're
airplanes as far as registering, airworthiness, insuring, pilot
licensing and air law are concerned, but not for building or
maintaining.
You gotta want to be a mechanic pretty bad to do it here.

Dan

[jls]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> The U.S. has to be the easiest place in the world to get an aircraft
> mechanic's ticket. Here in Canada there are four requirements: Formal
> training, which normally takes place in a tech school and will take
> close to two years; Experience, which is 48 months, and up to 24 months
> of the tech school training may count toward that, but in any case it
> will take you four years in total; Tasks, which must include at least
> 70% of the ATA tasks listed for the type of aircraft the license
> covers; And four written exams, same as in the US, except that in
> Canada you can't get exam question and answer books: you have to
> actually know the stuff, and you have no idea what they might ask you.
> All of the schooling, experience and tasks have to be documented and
> certified. There are two Maintenance licences, the M1 which covers all
> non-turbojet, non-transport category aircraft, and the M2 which covers
> the rest. There's an S (structural) license, and an E (avionics)
> license, too. Restoration can count but it has to be done under the
> supervision of a licensed mechanic. Homebuilts don't count: they're
> airplanes as far as registering, airworthiness, insuring, pilot
> licensing and air law are concerned, but not for building or
> maintaining.
> You gotta want to be a mechanic pretty bad to do it here.
>
> Dan
>

And yet I've seen Canada-maintained aircraft which were right doggy, if you
ask me. One I'm familiar with shouldn't even have been allowed to fly into
this country, it was so unairworthy.

[[email protected]]

And on this side of the border, we've seen some American airplanes
that should have been shot down and scrapped. It all comes down to how
seriously the mechanic takes his responsibilities and how much pride he
takes in his work. People are people on both sides of the border,
mechanics and owners both. High standards are no guarantee of quality,
but it helps.

[Don Hammer]

There is rumblings in the industry in the US that the FAA is looking
at the training and licensing issues here. I think that in the
future, we will look more like Canada and Europe in the way we license
Engineers/Technicians. To this point the industry has been very
successfully in self regulating and we have had a safe system.

The big thing driving the FAA to move is the economics of commercial
airlines and repair stations and looking at recent accidents. The
ratio of maintenance to pilot caused accidents has trended up
drastically and because of the requirements for recurrent training,
pilot caused accidents have gone down. The quality of the average
airline mechanic has gone down as aircraft complexity has gone up.
From my direct experience, I see the same in large repair centers.

Having to make repairs to jets I have been involved with over the
years, I have been very impressed with our Canadian brothers.



On 23 Dec 2004 11:03:15 -0800, wrotD:

>And on this side of the border, we've seen some American airplanes
>that should have been shot down and scrapped. It all comes down to how
>seriously the mechanic takes his responsibilities and how much pride he
>takes in his work. People are people on both sides of the border,
>mechanics and owners both. High standards are no guarantee of quality,
>but it helps.


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[Michelle P]

Denny,
Maybe a school you went to or know was a scam. The one I went two was
not. Lots of hands on and good instructors who worked the industry. I
learned a lot just chatting with them after class. You get out of it
what you put into it.

Michelle (A&P, CanadaAir Regional Jet Airworthiness Release
Authorization (ARA), Required Inspection Item Authorization (RII),
Run/Taxi, Jetstream 4100 Run/Taxi, Maintenance Instructor) Independence Air

Denny wrote:

>Of all the people who have earned their A&P license, something like
>25% have never exercised the privileges of the certificate. That should
>tell you something. I know several people who graduated approved
>programs and never got the license. A&P schools are a scam because the
>only thing you learn is to pass the test-if you are lucky. I think the
>_only_ way to get the license should be the experience route (but
>homebuilding and restoring should count.)
>
>
>

[nuke]

I would like for their to be a category for owner maintenance in the USA,
either like Canada has or an alternative where an owner, who's been through
training in the relevant arts and passed an examination, can maintain his
*own*, not for hire, single piston engine airplane, non-pressurised, 6 or fewer
seats.

There are people like me, who can handle it, and do work at least as good as
what I've been finding done to my plane over the years by licensed mechanics. I
dare say, better, since my ass is the one in the air.



--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

[disgusted]

disgusted > wrote in
:

> Hi, I'm a recent gradute of an A&P school, looking for a career in
> aircraft. I'm not into GA but, willing to if something is in the S.E.
> area of the U.S. Prefer commercial or military manufacturing.

Interesting follow ups to what I posted. The "disgusting" was just b.s.
stuff. I know all this can be debated on and on, just the answer to my post
will do. I know these politics are never ending, personally I could give a
damn less! All I want is a job as an honest mechanic, a home and live long
enough to enjoy S.S. (if it exists then) So, in a nut shell: a recent
graduate wanting an entry level position in the S.E.
I also tried Greensboro, and found those people a little snooty.
Maintainence can be a true course for a good person but: 1. Takes too many
years for a good reputation to form. 2. Ya better have your act really
together or possibly down the road, find yourself involved somehow with a
lawsuit case. (ain't life a bitch)
Still waiting on an answer from Gulfstream.Thanks folks for the
(positive) input and will check now and then.

[Jon A.]

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:34:20 GMT, disgusted > wrote:

>disgusted > wrote in
:
>
>> Hi, I'm a recent gradute of an A&P school, looking for a career in
>> aircraft. I'm not into GA but, willing to if something is in the S.E.
>> area of the U.S. Prefer commercial or military manufacturing.
>
>Interesting follow ups to what I posted. The "disgusting" was just b.s.
>stuff. I know all this can be debated on and on, just the answer to my post
>will do. I know these politics are never ending, personally I could give a
>damn less! All I want is a job as an honest mechanic, a home and live long
>enough to enjoy S.S. (if it exists then) So, in a nut shell: a recent
>graduate wanting an entry level position in the S.E.

Politics are what makes the world go around, so learn how to play, no
excuses, Sonny. Don't count on SS being around when you're ready.
Unfortunately, the citizens of Dumbf**kistan elected someone that
wants to screw with it so that his buds can become fatter.

> I also tried Greensboro, and found those people a little snooty.

Snooty? Sounds like you're a person that is from this latest
generation. Demands instant gratification for their work, not willing
to pay the dues necessary and thinks they have it all wrapped up.
Hell, why not just seek a job as a VP of maintenance. That way you
can set policy that everyone must kiss your ass and like it.
Understand that people are all different and not everyone is going to
be willing to even speak to you, no less stroke you like mommy did.
Face the facts boy, your first job will be sweeping the floor.

>Maintainence can be a true course for a good person but: 1. Takes too many
>years for a good reputation to form. 2. Ya better have your act really
>together or possibly down the road, find yourself involved somehow with a
>lawsuit case. (ain't life a bitch)
> Still waiting on an answer from Gulfstream.Thanks folks for the
>(positive) input and will check now and then.

Have you told them who you are? I think not, otherwise they would
have sent Ed McMahon and a couple of Playmates with a signing bonus
check to your door. Jeez, get with it!

[eat it]

Jon A. > wrote in
:

> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:34:20 GMT, disgusted > wrote:
>
>>disgusted > wrote in
:
>>
>>> Hi, I'm a recent gradute of an A&P school, looking for a career in
>>> aircraft. I'm not into GA but, willing to if something is in the
>>> S.E. area of the U.S. Prefer commercial or military manufacturing.
>>
>>Interesting follow ups to what I posted. The "disgusting" was just
>>b.s. stuff. I know all this can be debated on and on, just the answer
>>to my post will do. I know these politics are never ending, personally
>>I could give a damn less! All I want is a job as an honest mechanic, a
>>home and live long enough to enjoy S.S. (if it exists then) So, in a
>>nut shell: a recent graduate wanting an entry level position in the
>>S.E.
>
> Politics are what makes the world go around, so learn how to play, no
> excuses, Sonny. Don't count on SS being around when you're ready.
> Unfortunately, the citizens of Dumbf**kistan elected someone that
> wants to screw with it so that his buds can become fatter.
>
>> I also tried Greensboro, and found those people a little
>> snooty.
>
> Snooty? Sounds like you're a person that is from this latest
> generation. Demands instant gratification for their work, not willing
> to pay the dues necessary and thinks they have it all wrapped up.
> Hell, why not just seek a job as a VP of maintenance. That way you
> can set policy that everyone must kiss your ass and like it.
> Understand that people are all different and not everyone is going to
> be willing to even speak to you, no less stroke you like mommy did.
> Face the facts boy, your first job will be sweeping the floor.
>
>>Maintainence can be a true course for a good person but: 1. Takes too
>>many years for a good reputation to form. 2. Ya better have your act
>>really together or possibly down the road, find yourself involved
>>somehow with a lawsuit case. (ain't life a bitch)
>> Still waiting on an answer from Gulfstream.Thanks folks for
>> the
>>(positive) input and will check now and then.
>
> Have you told them who you are? I think not, otherwise they would
> have sent Ed McMahon and a couple of Playmates with a signing bonus
> check to your door. Jeez, get with it!

What a bunch of jackass's! Ya must be the same people who brown nose,
huh. Or better yet, ya work for Northwest and or afraid someone who
knows their stuff will replace your fat asses. Don't respond, your not
worth it.

[Jon A.]

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 02:57:05 GMT, eat it > wrote:

>Jon A. > wrote in
:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:34:20 GMT, disgusted > wrote:
>What a bunch of jackass's! Ya must be the same people who brown nose,
>huh. Or better yet, ya work for Northwest and or afraid someone who
>knows their stuff will replace your fat asses. Don't respond, your not
>worth it.

Don't respond? Damn, I was going to correct the spelling on your
submission. I guess since you're a newly graduated English major from
a big University looking to head the literature department of the Air
Force Academy, you could handle it yourself.

[JDupre5762]

> Don't count on SS being around when you're ready.
>Unfortunately, the citizens of Dumbf**kistan elected someone that
>wants to screw with it so that his buds can become fatter.

Hardly. The dirty little secret of Social Security for A&P Mechanics, Pilots
or anyone else is that it cannot survive in its present form.

First it is not an account into which you and your employer pay money for you
to withdraw when you retire. The system works by having current workers pay
for those currently retired. The baby boom generation is fast approaching
retirement. They did not have enough children to ensure that there would be
enough workers to pay for thier retirement. Twenty years ago there were
something like 15 workers paying for each retiree's s.s. benefits. Today there
are four. In a few years there will be two workers for every retiree. As
currently constituted some time in the future one worker will pay for multiple
retirees.

President Bush is the first leader in a long time to face facts with social
security. Raising the witholding taxes again will only be a bandaid and not a
long term solution.
Giving people a choice in how they spend thier hard earned money seems like the
way to go for me. I trust my judgement more than the governments.

John Dupre'

[Newps]

Gene Kearns wrote:

>
> Yada, yada. yada.... fine. Not a problem... Return the last 41 years
> of investments in my name plus 12% interest and I'm outta here....

That's funny. That's exactly what people are proposing, gradually over
a very long term. And what you paid in to SS is no different than any
other tax. There's no pot with your name on it. Your money was spent a
long tme ago. And what's this about 12%?

>
>
> BS. The fact is that the SS fund has been raided by the party in
> control since it's inception.

It's not relavant if the fund was raided or not, all the money that
should be there is taken into consideration. The simple fact is the
baby boomers are starting to retire and this ponzi scheme is being
revealed for what it is. The SS money today returns exactly zero. You
let me simply put it in the bank and I am miles ahead.

>
>
> WHAT? Tell me, again, WHO, is making the judgment? YOU?

Yes, what's so hard to understand about that?

What if the person(s) make(s) a poor
> investment? What if they are a(re) victim(s) of economic reality such
> as the dot.bombs of the 1990s? Shall we just let them starve (as they
> surely deserve to do, having made a wrong choice) or can we assume
> they will be bailed out by a "faith based initiative"?


Oh the sky is falling...blah blah blah. The choices for investment
would be the same as all Federal workers have right now for their 401K.
There are three stock funds, all of which are index funds. One bond
fund, also an index fund and one government securities fund. These are
securities sold only to this fund and they always return 3-4% above
inflation. So there's no chance of people getting sucked into the dot
com boom/bust. If you simply put your money into the government
securities fund you would be far ahead of the guy who has a regular SS
account. Put it all in the S&P 500 fund and you will return, on
average, 11% per year.

[Jon A.]

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:41:52 -0700, Newps > wrote:

>
>
>Gene Kearns wrote:
>
>>
>> Yada, yada. yada.... fine. Not a problem... Return the last 41 years
>> of investments in my name plus 12% interest and I'm outta here....
>
>That's funny. That's exactly what people are proposing, gradually over
>a very long term. And what you paid in to SS is no different than any
>other tax. There's no pot with your name on it. Your money was spent a
>long tme ago. And what's this about 12%?

Oh, so the money you invest is put into a pot for you? Something
about SS guaranteeing any return is the key.>>
>>
>> BS. The fact is that the SS fund has been raided by the party in
>> control since it's inception.
>
>It's not relavant if the fund was raided or not, all the money that
>should be there is taken into consideration. The simple fact is the
>baby boomers are starting to retire and this ponzi scheme is being
>revealed for what it is. The SS money today returns exactly zero. You
>let me simply put it in the bank and I am miles ahead.
>
Ponzi scheme to those who can benefit from its unraveling so that
people with the intelligence to elect the current president can think
they'll be rich if they go at it all alone, Godsend to millions upon
millions who (lets face it) don't have the education or spare change
to sock it away.
>>
>>
>> WHAT? Tell me, again, WHO, is making the judgment? YOU?
>
>Yes, what's so hard to understand about that?
>
Not a problem. If one opts to not participate, they should never be
able to reap any of the benefits.

> What if the person(s) make(s) a poor
>> investment? What if they are a(re) victim(s) of economic reality such
>> as the dot.bombs of the 1990s? Shall we just let them starve (as they
>> surely deserve to do, having made a wrong choice) or can we assume
>> they will be bailed out by a "faith based initiative"?
>
>
>Oh the sky is falling...blah blah blah. The choices for investment
>would be the same as all Federal workers have right now for their 401K.
> There are three stock funds, all of which are index funds. One bond
>fund, also an index fund and one government securities fund. These are
>securities sold only to this fund and they always return 3-4% above
>inflation. So there's no chance of people getting sucked into the dot
>com boom/bust. If you simply put your money into the government
>securities fund you would be far ahead of the guy who has a regular SS
>account. Put it all in the S&P 500 fund and you will return, on
>average, 11% per year.

I guess that doesn't happen in your world, Nirvana. Wow, I just can't
understand why all the fuss about the crash of a few years back when I
lost about 1/4 million. What the hell was all the ENRON stuff, b.s.?
But you know what, I did it and I took it on the chin. My SS will
provide me with some dog food money if I lose the rest of it. Problem
is that no one trusts big corps any more with t heir money. The
people need a safety net, as little as it may seem to you.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Gene Kearns > wrote:

> Yada, yada. yada.... fine. Not a problem... Return the last 41 years
> of investments in my name plus 12% interest and I'm outta here....

since none of it was actually invested, the amount you'll get
is exactly $0.

bye. ;-)

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like

[cherokeepilot]

[QUOTE=Bob Noel]In article ,
Gene Kearns wrote:

Yada, yada. yada.... fine. Not a problem... Return the last 41 years
of investments in my name plus 12% interest and I'm outta here....

since none of it was actually invested, the amount you'll get
is exactly $0.

bye. ;-)

--
Bob Noel

Hey,
I'm thinking about getting my A&P license. I was just wondering if you have to be a GREAT Mathematician to be any good in this field? Thanks