Blind 430

[john smith]

Tell him to try it outside the hangar. ;-))

Jim Burns wrote:
> A friend of mine has a 12v Garmin 430 that simply does not pick up the
> satellites. It worked fine about 3 weeks ago (the last time he flew) but
> now it fails to find any satellite signals. One avionics tech said that it
> had "lost it's almanac" and to pull it out and let it sit for a couple hours
> and it should pick up the satellites and work fine. No such luck. All
> power and antenna connections are good and nothing has happened to the
> airplane or the equipment since it flew last. Any ideas? Anybody ever hear
> of such a thing?
> Thanks,
> Jim

[Helen Woods]

Call Penn Avionics:

http://www.pennavionics.com/

[Jim Burns]

A friend of mine has a 12v Garmin 430 that simply does not pick up the
satellites. It worked fine about 3 weeks ago (the last time he flew) but
now it fails to find any satellite signals. One avionics tech said that it
had "lost it's almanac" and to pull it out and let it sit for a couple hours
and it should pick up the satellites and work fine. No such luck. All
power and antenna connections are good and nothing has happened to the
airplane or the equipment since it flew last. Any ideas? Anybody ever hear
of such a thing?

Thanks,
Jim

[Nathan Young]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:37:24 -0800, "Jim Burns"
> wrote:

>A friend of mine has a 12v Garmin 430 that simply does not pick up the
>satellites. It worked fine about 3 weeks ago (the last time he flew) but
>now it fails to find any satellite signals. One avionics tech said that it
>had "lost it's almanac" and to pull it out and let it sit for a couple hours
>and it should pick up the satellites and work fine. No such luck. All
>power and antenna connections are good and nothing has happened to the
>airplane or the equipment since it flew last. Any ideas? Anybody ever hear
>of such a thing?

The almanac includes a list of parameters that allow the GPS receiver
to determine where to 'look' for each satellite.

Without an almanac (and a valid time reference), the GPS receiver is
forced to brute force search for the satellite PRNs. Older GPS
receivers did not have enough processing power to effectively perform
this brute force search. So they would take 15+ (sometimes much
longer) minutes to 'cold start'.

Newer GPSs have more powerful processing engines, and do much better
on cold starts. I do not know for sure, but would expect a 430 to
have a new enough engine to manage a cold start in ~15 minutes. So
anyway, that is a possibility.

If there is an option for setting the time on the receiver, start with
that. Be sure and set the clock as accurately as you can. Make sure
the plane is outdoors and has a good 'view' of the sky. Pulling it
into a tight row of T-hangars still leaves a lot of the horizon
blocked. It is probably best to take it for a flight.

If the plane is flown for 30 minutes and the 430 doesn't lock, there
is a problem, time to troubleshoot. I would pull the radio and have
an avionics shop bench test it. That way you know if you are dealing
with a radio problem or an antenna/cabling issue. (from your
paragraph above, I am wondering how the antenna and connections were
verified 'good' without getting the GPS to work).

-Nathan

[Jim Burns]

I wouldn't say that the cableing and antenna connections were positively
verified 'good', just that the 430 worked when the airplane was last shut
down and hangered and that there are no visable problems with the cables or
antenna and the connections are snug. This is however the direction he is
checking next. He flew it over to an avionics shop yesterday, unfortunately
the owner was gone. He's had it sitting outside running for over an hour as
well as flown it for over an hour and it still doesn't pick up the
satellites. I'll see if he can set the date and time and try it again.
Thanks,
Jim

[Mike Rapoport]

Borrow another 430 and see if it is the box or the installation.

Mike
MU-2


"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
>I wouldn't say that the cableing and antenna connections were positively
> verified 'good', just that the 430 worked when the airplane was last shut
> down and hangered and that there are no visable problems with the cables
> or
> antenna and the connections are snug. This is however the direction he is
> checking next. He flew it over to an avionics shop yesterday,
> unfortunately
> the owner was gone. He's had it sitting outside running for over an hour
> as
> well as flown it for over an hour and it still doesn't pick up the
> satellites. I'll see if he can set the date and time and try it again.
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

His is a 12v, only other ones around here are 24v. Avionics guy should be
back today.

Jim

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Borrow another 430 and see if it is the box or the installation.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I wouldn't say that the cableing and antenna connections were positively
> > verified 'good', just that the 430 worked when the airplane was last
shut
> > down and hangered and that there are no visable problems with the cables
> > or
> > antenna and the connections are snug. This is however the direction he
is
> > checking next. He flew it over to an avionics shop yesterday,
> > unfortunately
> > the owner was gone. He's had it sitting outside running for over an hour
> > as
> > well as flown it for over an hour and it still doesn't pick up the
> > satellites. I'll see if he can set the date and time and try it again.
> > Thanks,
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

I think all the recent ones work on either 14 or 28V.

Mike
MU-2

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> His is a 12v, only other ones around here are 24v. Avionics guy should be
> back today.
>
> Jim
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Borrow another 430 and see if it is the box or the installation.
>>
>> Mike
>> MU-2
>>
>>
>> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >I wouldn't say that the cableing and antenna connections were positively
>> > verified 'good', just that the 430 worked when the airplane was last
> shut
>> > down and hangered and that there are no visable problems with the
>> > cables
>> > or
>> > antenna and the connections are snug. This is however the direction he
> is
>> > checking next. He flew it over to an avionics shop yesterday,
>> > unfortunately
>> > the owner was gone. He's had it sitting outside running for over an
>> > hour
>> > as
>> > well as flown it for over an hour and it still doesn't pick up the
>> > satellites. I'll see if he can set the date and time and try it again.
>> > Thanks,
>> > Jim
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

Could be. Yesterday he visited the FBO that we used to lease the 182RG from
and they checked that one, it was only 28v. We're kind of in a 430 deprived
area of Wisconsin :)
Jim


"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
link.net...
> I think all the recent ones work on either 14 or 28V.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> > His is a 12v, only other ones around here are 24v. Avionics guy should
be
> > back today.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> >> Borrow another 430 and see if it is the box or the installation.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> MU-2
> >>
> >>
> >> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >I wouldn't say that the cableing and antenna connections were
positively
> >> > verified 'good', just that the 430 worked when the airplane was last
> > shut
> >> > down and hangered and that there are no visable problems with the
> >> > cables
> >> > or
> >> > antenna and the connections are snug. This is however the direction
he
> > is
> >> > checking next. He flew it over to an avionics shop yesterday,
> >> > unfortunately
> >> > the owner was gone. He's had it sitting outside running for over an
> >> > hour
> >> > as
> >> > well as flown it for over an hour and it still doesn't pick up the
> >> > satellites. I'll see if he can set the date and time and try it
again.
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Jim
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[[email protected]]

Are your tax payments current?

[Nathan Young]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:37:37 -0600, "Jim Burns"
> wrote:

>Could be. Yesterday he visited the FBO that we used to lease the 182RG from
>and they checked that one, it was only 28v. We're kind of in a 430 deprived
>area of Wisconsin :)
>Jim

I don't know how far North in Wisconsin you are, but if you can make
it to Chicago DuPage, JA Air Center is an absolutely stellar avionics
shop. I also believe they are the largest Garmin dealer.

When my KX155 was not driving a GS correctly, they bench tested it for
free, and the tech took the time to show me the performance on the
bench. It is rare to find this kind of customer service.

-Nathan

[Jim Burns]

One of our partners actually has a relative that works at JA, so we are
familiar with them, but we're several hours flight away. We'll look locally
first, then expand our circle.
Thanks.
Jim

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:37:37 -0600, "Jim Burns"
> > wrote:
>
> >Could be. Yesterday he visited the FBO that we used to lease the 182RG
from
> >and they checked that one, it was only 28v. We're kind of in a 430
deprived
> >area of Wisconsin :)
> >Jim
>
> I don't know how far North in Wisconsin you are, but if you can make
> it to Chicago DuPage, JA Air Center is an absolutely stellar avionics
> shop. I also believe they are the largest Garmin dealer.
>
> When my KX155 was not driving a GS correctly, they bench tested it for
> free, and the tech took the time to show me the performance on the
> bench. It is rare to find this kind of customer service.
>
> -Nathan
>

[tony roberts]

It happened to me with my 196.
Finally discovered the problem. The plane had been in the avionics shop
and while there they had dialed a new frequency into the VOR (don't
remember what it was now). After spending lots of time searching and
testing a friend told me to try switching off all of the avionics - and
the gps came back. Turn on the VOR - lose the GPS! After tuning the VOR
back to a local frequency the problem disappeared.

Worth a try before you start spending money!

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE




In article >,
"Jim Burns" > wrote:

> A friend of mine has a 12v Garmin 430 that simply does not pick up the
> satellites. It worked fine about 3 weeks ago (the last time he flew) but
> now it fails to find any satellite signals. One avionics tech said that it
> had "lost it's almanac" and to pull it out and let it sit for a couple hours
> and it should pick up the satellites and work fine. No such luck. All
> power and antenna connections are good and nothing has happened to the
> airplane or the equipment since it flew last. Any ideas? Anybody ever hear
> of such a thing?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim

[BTIZ]

don't know if I would trust that VOR or the GPS.. so I go cross country
somewhere and have to dial in the VOR freq that totally sends the GPS into
oblivion.. that would just not do...

But VORs only receive, so how would the VOR disrupt the GPS?
And before the flamers start.. he said VOR.. now.. if he meant to say a
combined VOR/DME unit, then yes.. the DME transmits, and on it's freq it may
disrupt the receiving of GPS signal.

but then again.. why would I trust that VOR/DME/GPS combination.
Tony... either never leave to the local area, or don't count on the GPS when
you may really need it.
Either that, or just shut down your VOR receiver.

BT


"tony roberts" > wrote in message
news:nospam-B25E4B.17514031122004@shawnews...
> It happened to me with my 196.
> Finally discovered the problem. The plane had been in the avionics shop
> and while there they had dialed a new frequency into the VOR (don't
> remember what it was now). After spending lots of time searching and
> testing a friend told me to try switching off all of the avionics - and
> the gps came back. Turn on the VOR - lose the GPS! After tuning the VOR
> back to a local frequency the problem disappeared.
>
> Worth a try before you start spending money!
>
> Tony
>
> --
>
> Tony Roberts
> PP-ASEL
> VFR OTT
> Night
> Cessna 172H C-GICE
>
>
>
>
> In article >,
> "Jim Burns" > wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine has a 12v Garmin 430 that simply does not pick up the
>> satellites. It worked fine about 3 weeks ago (the last time he flew) but
>> now it fails to find any satellite signals. One avionics tech said that
>> it
>> had "lost it's almanac" and to pull it out and let it sit for a couple
>> hours
>> and it should pick up the satellites and work fine. No such luck. All
>> power and antenna connections are good and nothing has happened to the
>> airplane or the equipment since it flew last. Any ideas? Anybody ever
>> hear
>> of such a thing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim

[David Lesher]

"BTIZ" > writes:


>But VORs only receive, so how would the VOR disrupt the GPS?

There is no such thing as a pure receiver [1] at least in avionics.
Each receiver has one or more 'local oscillators' within. They leak
a little. If that leakage is in the wrong place at the wrong time...it
can get into other systems such as GPS.

"EMC" -- electromagnetic compatibility is a major issue any place
you have multiple emitters/receivers. Such problems can be hell to
narrow down. My FAAfriend talked about the Mode S system being tested
[ISTM it was on a FAA/NASA 757..] that would crap out for a ~minute
right before each landing. Seems when the nosewheel gear-door would
open during gear transit & that would bounce some radar altimeter
RF back into into the xponder antenna....





[1] Let's skip TRF's and other exotics...
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Jim Burns]

2 corroded connectors limited voltage to the antenna.
Lesson learned: Just because it worked yesterday and nothing is visibly
wrong with your cables and connectors doesn't mean that they aren't the
culprit!

CHEAP lesson learned! My friend breathed a huge sigh of relief when they
said there wasn't anything wrong with the 430 itself.

Jim

"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> A friend of mine has a 12v Garmin 430 that simply does not pick up the
> satellites. It worked fine about 3 weeks ago (the last time he flew) but
> now it fails to find any satellite signals. One avionics tech said that
it
> had "lost it's almanac" and to pull it out and let it sit for a couple
hours
> and it should pick up the satellites and work fine. No such luck. All
> power and antenna connections are good and nothing has happened to the
> airplane or the equipment since it flew last. Any ideas? Anybody ever
hear
> of such a thing?
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>

[Dave Butler]

tony roberts wrote:
> It happened to me with my 196.
> Finally discovered the problem. The plane had been in the avionics shop
> and while there they had dialed a new frequency into the VOR (don't
> remember what it was now). After spending lots of time searching and
> testing a friend told me to try switching off all of the avionics - and
> the gps came back. Turn on the VOR - lose the GPS! After tuning the VOR
> back to a local frequency the problem disappeared.
>
> Worth a try before you start spending money!

Good idea. I should have thought of that. Happens with my handheld, too,
interference from my KX-155 when the NAV side is tuned to certain frequencies. I
think KX-155 is notorious for producing RFI. If the GPS is an IFR approved
installation, they're supposed to check for that as part of the approval, but
who knows. Worth a try.