US Citizen relocating to Canada

[Dude]

Anyone have any helpful words for a pilot and plane owner possibly moving to
Canada?

Specifically, property taxes and other cost of ownership issues. Also,
ability to rent with a US certificate from Canadian schools if I decide not
to take the plane with me. Lastly, can you use a US Commercial certificate
for flying jobs in Canada?

[Jay Somerset]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:46:23 GMT, "Dude" > wrote:

> Anyone have any helpful words for a pilot and plane owner possibly moving to
> Canada?
>
> Specifically, property taxes and other cost of ownership issues. Also,
> ability to rent with a US certificate from Canadian schools if I decide not
> to take the plane with me. Lastly, can you use a US Commercial certificate
> for flying jobs in Canada?
>
>

Your US Commercial Cert will not let you do anything with a C-reg plane in
Canada, on its own. You can get the equivalent Canadian license with
minimal instruction, although the commercial limitations may be a bit
different. This type of kicense, based on your US Certificate, is valid only
as long as all requirements for the US one are still valid (currency,
medical, etc.).

You cannot rent (or act as PIC) a C-reg plane with the US cert. You can
keep and fly a US-reg aircraft in Canada, as long as it is personally owned
-- not owned by a company.

I suggest you join COPA (www.copanational.org) but you can get sonme info
from their website as a guest.

If you import your US-registered aircraft, you will have to pay provincial
and federal sales taxes. The plane will also be subject to duty -- probably
at about 27% of current value. All in all, taxes/duties can total over 40%
of the value of the plane.

You can get more detailed info from COPA, and possibly from AOPA as well.

[Dude]

Thanks for the heads up!
>
> I suggest you join COPA (www.copanational.org) but you can get sonme info
> from their website as a guest.
>
Wilco


> If you import your US-registered aircraft, you will have to pay provincial
> and federal sales taxes. The plane will also be subject to duty --
> probably
> at about 27% of current value. All in all, taxes/duties can total over
> 40%
> of the value of the plane.
>
> You can get more detailed info from COPA, and possibly from AOPA as well.

Holy Communism Batman! That's insane! Do I get a refund when I leave in a
couple years?

[[email protected]]

Dude wrote:
> Anyone have any helpful words for a pilot and plane owner possibly
moving to
> Canada?
>
> Specifically, property taxes and other cost of ownership issues.
Also,
> ability to rent with a US certificate from Canadian schools if I
decide not
> to take the plane with me. Lastly, can you use a US Commercial
certificate
> for flying jobs in Canada?

Can't help w.r.t. the taxes, etc, but...

To fly a C-xxxx airplane (Canadian registered), you must have a
Canadian License. For PPL priviledges, one can be acquired from
Transport Canada based
on your US Certificate (which needs to be current, so if I was
you I'd get a medical and flight review done before leaving the US).

For Commercial flying, you'd need to go through all the hoops.
(Canadian Medical, Written, Flight Test...)

As for the airplane, I think it will be much simpler to leave
it US registered than trying to switch to Canadian Registration.
(About the only inconvenience for private operation would be
having to take it to an FAA A&P/IA for the annual.)
Although it is somewhat involved, it is possible for a flying
school to lease a US registered aircraft and then operate it
on their rental fleet. FCI, which is based in St. Catherines
and Pheonix AZ does this with some of their aircraft. I know
because the boss in St. Catherines complains that Transport
charges him $1000 every time he does it.

Good luck with it, rick

[[email protected]]

Seems to me that a US-registered airplane can only be in
Canada for up to 90 days in any calendar year. Might be an issue for
you.
Duty on a used airplane? First I've heard of it. GST (Federal
tax) and any applicable provincal taxes would apply. Our government
likes to tax us to death.

Dan

[[email protected]]

There is no duty or taxes on personal property - including private
aircraft when you move to Canada. See
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4151/rc4151-e.html#P144_5246

Depending on the province, there will be normal "vehicle like"
registration fees - just like in US.

[Drew Dalgleish]

On 23 Jan 2005 15:06:31 -0800, wrote:

>There is no duty or taxes on personal property - including private
>aircraft when you move to Canada. See
>http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4151/rc4151-e.html#P144_5246
>
>Depending on the province, there will be normal "vehicle like"
>registration fees - just like in US.
>
I've never paid or for that matter heard of provincial registration
fees for planes. Aviation in Canada is federally regulated. One extra
fee you will have to pay is the nav Canada $55 service charge anually

[[email protected]]

I think Dude will be releived to know the main point: NO DUTY OR TAXES.
In SD here
they charge minimal annual registration fees. This may not be the case
for the
provinces. But we are talking about trivial issues now ($55/year)
compared to Jay's duty and tax rumour scare.

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

writes:

> There is no duty or taxes on personal property - including private
> aircraft when you move to Canada. See
> http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4151/rc4151-e.html#P144_5246

But in fact that page directly mentions the possibility of provincial
sales taxes on such vehicles. It merely excludes *customs duty* on
private aircraft.

For a Canadian resident, I am under the impression that buying an
N-registered plane for import to Canada would require payment of
PST+GST, just like importing any ordinary merchandise. It is likely
that there are some exemptions for people who are bring goods along
incidentally while changing residence, but for this kind of detail you
should retain a professional.

- FChE

[[email protected]]

Frank,

Read the web page title: "Settling in Canada"
Its talking about individuals wanting to enter Canada for residency.
Not about Canadian residents wanting to import goods from outside
Canada. There is no duty or tax on personal property of people
immigrating into Canada. I knew of several US imigrants into
Canada and that is generally the case.
Is that so hard to understand?

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Seems to me that a US-registered airplane can only be in
> Canada for up to 90 days in any calendar year. Might be an issue for
> you.
> Duty on a used airplane? First I've heard of it. GST (Federal
> tax) and any applicable provincal taxes would apply. Our government
> likes to tax us to death.
>
> Dan

I suspect you are right. However I know of someone who
was told by Transport Canada to just leave it with an
N-number on it (it was for private use only). The version
I heard from this individual was that Transport doesn't
have a "private operator equivalent" of the leasing regs.
for commercial N-numbered aircraft. (In this case, the
airplane was FAA type certified, but not Transport Canada
type certified, so Transport had no way of issuing a CofA.)

I suppose you might have to take a cross boarder cross
country, to be legit.

However, I have observed that switching from an N-number to
Canadian C-xxxx can be a challenge. The airworthiness folks
at Transport can be nitpicky. They want to see the airplane
configured exactly the way it left the factory, unless you
have STC paperwork for all changes. Then there are things
like different ELT standards, etc.

I know of a case where such an inspection failed because
there was no yellow triangular "ELT installed here" sticker
on the airframe. When the owner stated that he'd get
one right away, the Transport Inspector shrugged his
shoulders and said, "Once you've done that, call the office
and schedule another inspection". That happenned, three
weeks later.

rick

[Jay Somerset]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:20:51 GMT, "Dude" > wrote:

> Thanks for the heads up!
> >
> > I suggest you join COPA (www.copanational.org) but you can get sonme info
> > from their website as a guest.
> >
> Wilco
>
>
> > If you import your US-registered aircraft, you will have to pay provincial
> > and federal sales taxes. The plane will also be subject to duty --
> > probably
> > at about 27% of current value. All in all, taxes/duties can total over
> > 40%
> > of the value of the plane.
> >
> > You can get more detailed info from COPA, and possibly from AOPA as well.
>
> Holy Communism Batman! That's insane! Do I get a refund when I leave in a
> couple years?
>
If you are only planning to stay temporarily, and you own the plane
personally, leave it an an N-reg, and fly it as a US-registered pilot. You
may not be able to do any commercial activity (not sure )-- check with FAA
and CAA) but I doubt it.

[Jay Somerset]

On 23 Jan 2005 15:06:31 -0800, wrote:

> There is no duty or taxes on personal property - including private
> aircraft when you move to Canada. See
> http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4151/rc4151-e.html#P144_5246
>
> Depending on the province, there will be normal "vehicle like"
> registration fees - just like in US.


Not true -- read further. It depends on the value of each individual piece
of property. If you are a returning Canadian resisent, then these
definitley apply, no matter how long you may have lived in the US. The only
things that are likely to trigger this will be cars, aircraft, and expensive
pieces of jewellry or carpets.

A car, for example, must be formally imported into Canada, and this will
require the payment of duties (or excise taxes), if valued in excess of
$10,000. The same applies to aircraft.

[Jay Somerset]

On 23 Jan 2005 17:54:16 -0800, wrote:

> I think Dude will be releived to know the main point: NO DUTY OR TAXES.
> In SD here
> they charge minimal annual registration fees. This may not be the case
> for the
> provinces. But we are talking about trivial issues now ($55/year)
> compared to Jay's duty and tax rumour scare.

Not a rumour -- check out the regulations. I have just gone through the
whole process, and I know of someone who built a large sailboat abroad
(value $250,000) who cannot bring it back to Canada because of the duties
involved.

[Jay Somerset]

On 23 Jan 2005 19:58:04 -0800, wrote:

> Frank,
>
> Read the web page title: "Settling in Canada"
> Its talking about individuals wanting to enter Canada for residency.
> Not about Canadian residents wanting to import goods from outside
> Canada. There is no duty or tax on personal property of people
> immigrating into Canada. I knew of several US imigrants into
> Canada and that is generally the case.
> Is that so hard to understand?

There is -- but it applies only to individaul items of property valued in
excess of $10,000. Unless aircraft are specifically exempted (cars are not)
then it could be quite expensive to import a plane.

[Dude]

Jay,

Are those regulations on line anywhere?

I read the regs online for bringing your car, and I am still in the dark.

I guess I don't read bureaucratize real well.

Thanks



"Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
...
> On 23 Jan 2005 17:54:16 -0800, wrote:
>
>> I think Dude will be releived to know the main point: NO DUTY OR TAXES.
>> In SD here
>> they charge minimal annual registration fees. This may not be the case
>> for the
>> provinces. But we are talking about trivial issues now ($55/year)
>> compared to Jay's duty and tax rumour scare.
>
> Not a rumour -- check out the regulations. I have just gone through the
> whole process, and I know of someone who built a large sailboat abroad
> (value $250,000) who cannot bring it back to Canada because of the duties
> involved.

[Drew Dalgleish]

On 24 Jan 2005 11:40:25 -0800, wrote:

>
wrote:
>> Seems to me that a US-registered airplane can only be in
>> Canada for up to 90 days in any calendar year. Might be an issue for
>> you.
>> Duty on a used airplane? First I've heard of it. GST (Federal
>> tax) and any applicable provincal taxes would apply. Our government
>> likes to tax us to death.
>>
>> Dan
>
>I suspect you are right. However I know of someone who
>was told by Transport Canada to just leave it with an
>N-number on it (it was for private use only). The version
>I heard from this individual was that Transport doesn't
>have a "private operator equivalent" of the leasing regs.
>for commercial N-numbered aircraft. (In this case, the
>airplane was FAA type certified, but not Transport Canada
>type certified, so Transport had no way of issuing a CofA.)
>
>I suppose you might have to take a cross boarder cross
>country, to be legit.
>
>However, I have observed that switching from an N-number to
>Canadian C-xxxx can be a challenge. The airworthiness folks
>at Transport can be nitpicky. They want to see the airplane
>configured exactly the way it left the factory, unless you
>have STC paperwork for all changes. Then there are things
>like different ELT standards, etc.
>
>I know of a case where such an inspection failed because
>there was no yellow triangular "ELT installed here" sticker
>on the airframe. When the owner stated that he'd get
>one right away, the Transport Inspector shrugged his
>shoulders and said, "Once you've done that, call the office
>and schedule another inspection". That happenned, three
>weeks later.
>
>rick
>
You could bring it into Canada for a visit and keep it Nreg and legaly
fly it with just your american license. I sincerly doubt that anyone
is tracking how mmany days it stays in the country per year. I know of
a maule thats been flying around our area for a couple years this way
still with it's N#

[[email protected]]

Man,

We must be seeing different things. Here is a line section from the web
page
about a third of the way down:

-----------------------
Items you can import duty - and tax-free
Personal and household effects

Personal and household effects include goods such as:

* antiques;
* appliances;
* boats and the trailers to carry them (trailers are subject to
Transport Canada requirements);
* books;
* family heirlooms;
* furnishings;
* furniture;
* hobby tools and other hobby items;
* jewelry;
* linen;
* musical instruments;
* private aircraft; <========= HERE
* private collections of coins, stamps, or art;
* silverware; and
* vacation trailers.
----------------------------

It includes private aircraft (unless you bring them in for commercial
use)

The only place it talks about $10,000 is about amount of cash you bring
in

[[email protected]]

You are also confusing the original question. Dude asked about
moving to Canada and not about "returning" to Canada or
importing stuff to Canada when there.

[[email protected]]

You are also confusing the original question. Dude asked about moving
to Canada and not about "returning" to Canada like you or your friend.

[Dude]

For the record, it would be a 2 to 3 year assignment. I would then be
returning to the US.

[Dave]

"Dude" > wrote in message
...
> For the record, it would be a 2 to 3 year assignment. I would then be
> returning to the US.
>

Dude, this look like the last place to get any coherent information

[Jay Somerset]

Sorry, Dude, I may have misled you.

Duties are only applicable for a returning Canadian resident. If you have
never resided in Canada before, then you are either a "visitor" or an
"immigrant. In either of those two cases, your personal property is exempt
from duty, irrespective of value. However, you may be constrained from
selling any of it before your return.

If you read the online stuff for immigration, then you read the right thing.
There is a separate document for returning residents.
Sorry, for the confusion.


"On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:54:27 GMT, "Dude" > wrote:

> Jay,
>
> Are those regulations on line anywhere?
>
> I read the regs online for bringing your car, and I am still in the dark.
>
> I guess I don't read bureaucratize real well.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> "Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 23 Jan 2005 17:54:16 -0800, wrote:
> >
> >> I think Dude will be releived to know the main point: NO DUTY OR TAXES.
> >> In SD here
> >> they charge minimal annual registration fees. This may not be the case
> >> for the
> >> provinces. But we are talking about trivial issues now ($55/year)
> >> compared to Jay's duty and tax rumour scare.
> >
> > Not a rumour -- check out the regulations. I have just gone through the
> > whole process, and I know of someone who built a large sailboat abroad
> > (value $250,000) who cannot bring it back to Canada because of the duties
> > involved.
>

[Dude]

Jay,

Thanks for double checking and the apology. We can now add you to the list
of high character individuals who have posted on usenet to clear up a
mistake.

Congrats, its a small club!




"Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
...
> Sorry, Dude, I may have misled you.
>
> Duties are only applicable for a returning Canadian resident. If you have
> never resided in Canada before, then you are either a "visitor" or an
> "immigrant. In either of those two cases, your personal property is
> exempt
> from duty, irrespective of value. However, you may be constrained from
> selling any of it before your return.
>
> If you read the online stuff for immigration, then you read the right
> thing.
> There is a separate document for returning residents.
> Sorry, for the confusion.
>
>
> "On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:54:27 GMT, "Dude" > wrote:
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> Are those regulations on line anywhere?
>>
>> I read the regs online for bringing your car, and I am still in the dark.
>>
>> I guess I don't read bureaucratize real well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On 23 Jan 2005 17:54:16 -0800, wrote:
>> >
>> >> I think Dude will be releived to know the main point: NO DUTY OR
>> >> TAXES.
>> >> In SD here
>> >> they charge minimal annual registration fees. This may not be the case
>> >> for the
>> >> provinces. But we are talking about trivial issues now ($55/year)
>> >> compared to Jay's duty and tax rumour scare.
>> >
>> > Not a rumour -- check out the regulations. I have just gone through
>> > the
>> > whole process, and I know of someone who built a large sailboat abroad
>> > (value $250,000) who cannot bring it back to Canada because of the
>> > duties
>> > involved.
>>
>

[[email protected]]

If you're moving to British Columbia, you'll want to see if they want
Provincial Sales Tax on that airplane. My uncle moved from Alberta to
BC (right next door!) and the BC government sent him a bill for 7% of
the value of his Champ. He didn't even have the airplane with him; I
had it here in Alberta the whole time he lived in BC. He had quite a
battle with them over it. And won, too.

Dan

[Jay Somerset]

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:16:29 GMT, "Dude" > wrote:

> Jay,
>
> Thanks for double checking and the apology. We can now add you to the list
> of high character individuals who have posted on usenet to clear up a
> mistake.
>
> Congrats, its a small club!

I feel honoured to be in such select company. :-)


>
>
>
>
> "Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Sorry, Dude, I may have misled you.
> >
> > Duties are only applicable for a returning Canadian resident. If you have
> > never resided in Canada before, then you are either a "visitor" or an
> > "immigrant. In either of those two cases, your personal property is
> > exempt
> > from duty, irrespective of value. However, you may be constrained from
> > selling any of it before your return.
> >
> > If you read the online stuff for immigration, then you read the right
> > thing.
> > There is a separate document for returning residents.
> > Sorry, for the confusion.
> >
> >
> > "On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:54:27 GMT, "Dude" > wrote:
> >
> >> Jay,
> >>
> >> Are those regulations on line anywhere?
> >>
> >> I read the regs online for bringing your car, and I am still in the dark.
> >>
> >> I guess I don't read bureaucratize real well.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > On 23 Jan 2005 17:54:16 -0800, wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I think Dude will be releived to know the main point: NO DUTY OR
> >> >> TAXES.
> >> >> In SD here
> >> >> they charge minimal annual registration fees. This may not be the case
> >> >> for the
> >> >> provinces. But we are talking about trivial issues now ($55/year)
> >> >> compared to Jay's duty and tax rumour scare.
> >> >
> >> > Not a rumour -- check out the regulations. I have just gone through
> >> > the
> >> > whole process, and I know of someone who built a large sailboat abroad
> >> > (value $250,000) who cannot bring it back to Canada because of the
> >> > duties
> >> > involved.
> >>
> >
>