Hercs used for anti-ship bombing by Argentina

[a425couple]

Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing.
You gotta love people who improvise in wartime!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward

"the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant
ships re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb
out of the back of the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck
a ship, but bounced off to no effect)."

from my follow up reading from
"Guy" -- wrote in message...
>I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' and
> was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between 3 of
> his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,

[Frogwatch]

On Jan 16, 11:25*am, "a425couple" > wrote:
> Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing.
> You gotta love people who improvise in wartime!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward
>
> "the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant
> ships re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb
> out of the back of the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck
> a ship, but bounced off to no effect)."
>
> from my follow up reading from
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Guy" -- wrote in message...
> >I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' and
> > was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between 3 of
> > his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,

I remember this and that it was not very effective.

[Ray O'Hara[_3_]]

"Frogwatch" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 16, 11:25 am, "a425couple" > wrote:
> Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing.
> You gotta love people who improvise in
> wartime!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward
>
> "the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant
> ships re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb
> out of the back of the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck
> a ship, but bounced off to no effect)."
>
> from my follow up reading from
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Guy" -- wrote in message...
> >I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' and
> > was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between 3 of
> > his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,

I remember this and that it was not very effective


================================================== ==================

the Argies re-fused bombs from ground use to anti-shipping use and their
attempt failed. many of the re-fused bombs
that did hit failed to explode.
the Antelope was one such bomb that initially failed to explode, it was
later accidently set of by the Bomb defuser.
most others were successfully rendered safe.

[guy]

On Jan 16, 4:25*pm, "a425couple" > wrote:
> Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing.
> You gotta love people who improvise in wartime!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward
>
> "the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant
> ships re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb
> out of the back of the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck
> a ship, but bounced off to no effect)."
>
> from my follow up reading from
>
>
>
> "Guy" -- wrote in message...
> >I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' and
> > was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between 3 of
> > his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

IIRC the ship it hit was US, - a neutral

Guy

[Keith W[_4_]]

Ray O'Hara wrote:
> "Frogwatch" > wrote in message
>
> the Argies re-fused bombs from ground use to anti-shipping use and
> their attempt failed. many of the re-fused bombs
> that did hit failed to explode.
> the Antelope was one such bomb that initially failed to explode, it
> was later accidently set of by the Bomb defuser.
> most others were successfully rendered safe.

The problem with the Hercules bomber was rather more fundmental.

One of the two ships they managed to hit was a US flagged tanker
which did nothing to endear them to the US government.

Keith

[Ray O'Hara[_3_]]

"Keith W" > wrote in message
...
> Ray O'Hara wrote:
>> "Frogwatch" > wrote in message
>>
>> the Argies re-fused bombs from ground use to anti-shipping use and
>> their attempt failed. many of the re-fused bombs
>> that did hit failed to explode.
>> the Antelope was one such bomb that initially failed to explode, it
>> was later accidently set of by the Bomb defuser.
>> most others were successfully rendered safe.
>
> The problem with the Hercules bomber was rather more fundmental.
>
> One of the two ships they managed to hit was a US flagged tanker
> which did nothing to endear them to the US government.
>
> Keith
>


that they hit anything is amazing.
Fortunately for the UK the Argie Army and Navy didn't have the balls the
Argie Air Force had.

[Moramarth]

On Jan 16, 7:44 pm, "Keith W" > wrote:
> Ray O'Hara wrote:
> > "Frogwatch" > wrote in message
>
> > the Argies re-fused bombs from ground use to anti-shipping use and
> > their attempt failed. many of the re-fused bombs
> > that did hit failed to explode.
> > the Antelope was one such bomb that initially failed to explode, it
> > was later accidently set of by the Bomb defuser.
> > most others were successfully rendered safe.
>
> The problem with the Hercules bomber was rather more fundmental.
>
> One of the two ships they managed to hit was a US flagged tanker
> which did nothing to endear them to the US government.
>
> Keith

The first tanker hit was the "British Wye" - no damage. The US Tanker
was a 220,000 ton VLCC coincidentally named "Hercules"...
The latter was scuttled as it was said it was impossible to remove the
bomb safely (although there have been mutterings along the lines of
"insurance scam" as there was over-capacity at the time). However,
some sources credit the "Hercules" to Canberras: but if it was a
C-130, that single kill would catapult it into the ranks of all-time
most sucessfull ship-killers, based on tonnage. Before the Iran-Iraq
Tanker War, the Buccaneer was one of the leading scorers on that
basis, despite never having been in a shooting was at that stage;
they'd racked up 3 VLCCs (Torrey Canyon by the RAF, and 2 others by
the SAAF).

Cheers,

Moramarth

[David E. Powell]

On Jan 16, 8:06*pm, "Ray O'Hara" > wrote:
> "Keith W" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ray O'Hara wrote:
> >> "Frogwatch" > wrote in message
>
> >> the Argies re-fused bombs from ground use to anti-shipping use and
> >> their attempt failed. many of the re-fused bombs
> >> that did hit failed to explode.
> >> the Antelope was one such bomb that initially failed to explode, it
> >> was later accidently set of by the Bomb defuser.
> >> most others were successfully rendered safe.
>
> > The problem with the Hercules bomber was rather more fundmental.
>
> > One of the two ships they managed to hit was a US flagged tanker
> > which did nothing to endear them to the US government.
>
> > Keith
>
> that they hit anything is amazing.
> Fortunately for the UK the Argie Army and Navy didn't have the balls the
> Argie Air Force had.

The guys on the Argentinian GUPPY boat drove their sub about as hard
as they could.

[John Szalay[_2_]]

"David E. Powell" > wrote in
n
>>
>> The problem with the Hercules bomber was rather more fundmental.
>>

KC-130J Harvest hawk might have been useful just a little late..


http://www.marines.mil/unit/mcascherrypoint/Pages/KC130JHarvestHawk20110401
..aspx#.TxTf86WXTNU

[a425couple]

"John Szalay" <john.szalayATatt.net> wrote in message...
> "David E. Powell" > wrote in
>>> The problem with the Hercules bomber was rather more fundmental.
>
> KC-130J Harvest hawk might have been useful just a little late..
http://www.marines.mil/unit/mcascherrypoint/Pages/KC130JHarvestHawk20110401
> .aspx#.TxTf86WXTNU

Wow!! neat. Obviously, could of been very useful,
but a lot changes in 30 years.
Really, 30 years since the Falklands!
How old is that plane!! It sure was not new when
I got carted around in them? First flew in 1954!!!

[Matt Wiser[_2_]]

"a425couple" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing.
> You gotta love people who improvise in wartime!
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward
>
> "the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant
> ships re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb
> out of the back of the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck
> a ship, but bounced off to no effect)."
>
> from my follow up reading from
> "Guy" -- wrote in message...
> >I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' and
> > was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between 3 of
> > his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,
>
>
Don't forget the VNAF: they used Hercs as bombers during the final days in
'75 against the advancing NVA. Pakistani AF Hercs were also used as bombers
in '65 and in '71 reportedly.

[bill]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:20:44 -0800, Matt Wiser wrote:

> "a425couple" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing. You gotta love people who
>> improvise in wartime! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward
>>
>> "the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant ships
>> re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb out of the back of
>> the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck a ship, but bounced off
>> to no effect)."
>>
>> from my follow up reading from
>> "Guy" -- wrote in message...
>> >I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' and
>> > was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between 3
>> > of his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,
>>
>>
> Don't forget the VNAF: they used Hercs as bombers during the final days
> in '75 against the advancing NVA. Pakistani AF Hercs were also used as
> bombers in '65 and in '71 reportedly.

So the record shows that if you use C130's to drop bombs you get a
serious thrashing.


And so the moral is...?


--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...

[bill]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 20:06:59 -0500, Ray O'Hara wrote:


> that they hit anything is amazing.
> Fortunately for the UK the Argie Army and Navy didn't have the balls the
> Argie Air Force had.

They had the balls alright, they just didn't have the leadership.

Leadership for an airforce fighting a single entity isn't that
difficult, you just load up the weapons and send your young men out to
die.

With an army or a navy you need slightly more intelligence.

The Argentine army and navy had spent the past decade fighting highly
dangerous intellectuals and,, now and again, a lethal trade union
official or even a journalist armed with highly explosive printing
presses.

When they came up against people with guns they were in real trouble
because they weren't used to people who could shoot back.

--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...

[Paul J. Adam[_4_]]

On 17/01/2012 02:28, David E. Powell wrote:
> The guys on the Argentinian GUPPY boat drove their sub about as hard
> as they could.

The Santa Fe? Not really, they were caught on the surface and crippled
before they knew they were under attack. (Chris Parry, later to make
flag rank and run the Maritime Warfare Centre and then the Joint
Doctrine & Concepts Centre, may have owed some of his career to being
the observer that guided the Wessex in for a radar-guided attack in
fog). Similarly, the San Luis - a newer German-built Type 209 - caused
some irritation, but can hardly be said to have been "hard driven"
(imagine what a determinedly-driven small diesel boat could have
achieved amongst the San Carlos landings, for a nightmare scenario)

Unfortunately for the Argentine Navy in particular, actually fighting a
war turned out to be much more difficult than interrogating attractive
female dissidents aboard the ESMA, hence their decision to
hide-with-pride throughout the conflict.

--
He thinks too much, such men are dangerous.

[John Szalay[_2_]]

"a425couple" > wrote in
:

> "John Szalay" <john.szalayATatt.net> wrote in message...
>> "David E. Powell" > wrote in
>>>> The problem with the Hercules bomber was rather more fundmental.
>>
>> KC-130J Harvest hawk might have been useful just a little late..
> http://www.marines.mil/unit/mcascherrypoint/Pages/KC130JHarvestHawk201
> 10401
>> .aspx#.TxTf86WXTNU
>
> Wow!! neat. Obviously, could of been very useful,
> but a lot changes in 30 years.
> Really, 30 years since the Falklands!
> How old is that plane!! It sure was not new when
> I got carted around in them? First flew in 1954!!!
>
>


The J models are only a few years old.

But remember the Hercs during Viet-nam
with the Firebee & ALQ-34 drones.
some of that era could have been made into
attack missles if they had thought that out..

but the Argies didn,t have anything like that.


http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_344.shtml

[Matt Wiser]

On Jan 17, 12:11*am, bill > wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:20:44 -0800, Matt Wiser wrote:
> > "a425couple" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing. You gotta love people who
> >> improvise in wartime!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward
>
> >> "the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant ships
> >> re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb out of the back of
> >> the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck a ship, but bounced off
> >> to no effect)."
>
> >> from my follow up reading from
> >> "Guy" -- wrote in message...
> >> >I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands' and
> >> > was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between 3
> >> > of his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,
>
> > Don't forget the VNAF: they used Hercs as bombers during the final days
> > in '75 against the advancing NVA. Pakistani AF Hercs were also used as
> > bombers in '65 and in '71 reportedly.
>
> So the record shows that if you use C130's to drop bombs you get a
> serious thrashing.
>
> And so the moral is...?
>
> --
> William Black
>
> Free men have open minds
> If you want loyalty, *buy a dog...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If you don't have real bombers at your disposal, improvise, Even if
it's a losing effort, do the best you can.

[bill]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 10:33:52 -0800, Matt Wiser wrote:

> On Jan 17, 12:11Â*am, bill > wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 23:20:44 -0800, Matt Wiser wrote:
>> > "a425couple" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Yes, a Herc was used for anti-ship bombing. You gotta love people
>> >> who improvise in wartime!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Ward
>>
>> >> "the Argentinians had been using a C-130 to attack merchant ships
>> >> re-supplying the task force by simply pushing a bomb out of the back
>> >> of the aircraft as it flew over (one bomb struck a ship, but bounced
>> >> off to no effect)."
>>
>> >> from my follow up reading from
>> >> "Guy" -- wrote in message...
>> >> >I have just re-read Sharkey Wards 'Sea Harrier over the Falklands'
>> >> >and
>> >> > was amused to read, at the end of the book a 'discussion' between
>> >> > 3 of his officers (801 Sdn) and a Herc pilot fresh from Lyneham,
>>
>> > Don't forget the VNAF: they used Hercs as bombers during the final
>> > days in '75 against the advancing NVA. Pakistani AF Hercs were also
>> > used as bombers in '65 and in '71 reportedly.
>>
>> So the record shows that if you use C130's to drop bombs you get a
>> serious thrashing.
>>
>> And so the moral is...?
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>>
>> Free men have open minds
>> If you want loyalty, Â*buy a dog...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> If you don't have real bombers at your disposal, improvise, Even if it's
> a losing effort, do the best you can.

Depends.

If your targeting is so bad that you **** of a super-power you'd be
better off not even trying...



--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...