C-150 for photos?

[Simone Canosa]

Hi all... wondering if there is anyone out there that could suggest the
best way to remove the passenger window to take photos...

I know about unscrewing the retainer from the window... but just wanted to
know if there are any points to watch out for .. best speed etc...

The plane is not mine..and the flight school wouldn't be too thrilled if

a)I told them what I was planning to do
b) came back with a broken or REALLY scratched side window

Thanks to all,

:o)


Simon

[CVBreard]

>anyone out there that could suggest the
>best way to remove the passenger window to take photos...
>
>I know about unscrewing the retainer from the window... but just wanted to
>know if there are any points to watch out for .. best speed etc...
>


First, I don't really believe you want to REMOVE the window...just allow it to
open to allow you to shoot through the window opening.

Second, the retaining parts vary on different models, so be careful with the
parts. Also, many of the 150/152/172s have long since lost the screw, so it may
not be an issue.

Third, don't rest your arms, elbows or the camera on any part of the airframe,
keep the camera back inside the cabin out of the slipstream, etc., etc.

On some Cessnas, you'll want to put some tape or slip a piece of hose over the
door-holding-open thingie on the underside of the wing to prevent damage to the
window in the fully open position.

Now, the important part... in flight, grasp the window latch firmly as you open
the window, hang on tightly and SLOWLY open the window until it is held against
the bottom of the wing by the slipstream.

Finally, I shoot aerial photos at a SAFE altitude, typically 1500' agl and at
low cruise speed - none of this slow flight, flaps down stuff.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Simone Canosa wrote:
>
> I know about unscrewing the retainer from the window... but just wanted to
> know if there are any points to watch out for .. best speed etc...

It shouldn't give you any problems. When you open the window, hand onto the
latch and open it fully. The airstream will fold it up until it is nearly
touching the bottom of the wing. The aircraft will attempt to turn right, and
you will have to apply nearly full left aileron. The aircraft will also pitch
up a little and require you to adjust the trim. Expect to lose about 5 knots
of airspeed. Make sure that there are no light items (such as charts) loose in
the plane before opening the window. I never tried opening both windows in my
Cessna, but it's possible that this would reduce the amount of rudder pressure
required, with a possible further reduction in speed.

The best camera angle will be shooting forward between the strut and door frame.
Keep the camera inside the plane. If it's not an autofocus (or maybe even if it
is), set the focus on infinity and use it as a point&shoot. It is possible to
crab the plane to get the wing up out of the way for photos, but you don't have
much left rudder available. Plan on no more than half an hour of shooting before
your left leg gives out. I would avoid using lens larger than about 100mm unless
you have one of those gyroscopically stabilized units.

I would recommend using a good camera strap, just in case.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[Dale]

In article >,
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:


> It shouldn't give you any problems. When you open the window, hand onto the
> latch and open it fully. The airstream will fold it up until it is nearly
> touching the bottom of the wing. The aircraft will attempt to turn right, and
> you will have to apply nearly full left aileron. The aircraft will also pitch
> up a little and require you to adjust the trim. Expect to lose about 5 knots
> of airspeed.

I've opened windows in 150/152/172/182 and 206 and never noticed any
roll or need for any aileron and for certain "nearly full" aileron was
not needed. Even with the jump door open on the 182 and 206 rudder or
aileron is not needed. Was something else going on to cause you to need
aileron?

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[PJ]

Same here, fixed wing or swing wing.

PJ

--

===============
Reply to:
pj at offairport dot com
===============
Here's to the duck that swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together. J.J.W.
=========================================

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:
>
>
> > It shouldn't give you any problems. When you open the window, hand onto
the
> > latch and open it fully. The airstream will fold it up until it is
nearly
> > touching the bottom of the wing. The aircraft will attempt to turn
right, and
> > you will have to apply nearly full left aileron. The aircraft will also
pitch
> > up a little and require you to adjust the trim. Expect to lose about 5
knots
> > of airspeed.
>
> I've opened windows in 150/152/172/182 and 206 and never noticed any
> roll or need for any aileron and for certain "nearly full" aileron was
> not needed. Even with the jump door open on the 182 and 206 rudder or
> aileron is not needed. Was something else going on to cause you to need
> aileron?
>
> --
> Dale L. Falk
>
> There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
> as simply messing around with airplanes.
>
> http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Paul Sengupta]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
> The aircraft will attempt to turn right, and
> you will have to apply nearly full left aileron. The aircraft will also
pitch
> up a little and require you to adjust the trim. Expect to lose about 5
knots
> of airspeed.

I haven't had this effect in a 172.

> I would avoid using lens larger than about 100mm unless
> you have one of those gyroscopically stabilized units.

I went flying last Wednesday after theConcorde flight. I had my
(father's) camcorder with me so I set up the tripod in the back of
the plane. Strange thing. The camera (Sony) has "image
stabilisation", no giros or anything, not sure how it works,
something floating inside the camera or just a digital effect more
likely. Anyway, it's most noticable on taxying. The plane bobs
up and down over the rough ground but the image shows the
horizon as steady with the instrument panel moving up and down.

Saw this fly a wide circle around me, put its wheels down
and set itself up on long final to Boscombe Down as I was
climbing out from Thruxton:
http://www.paulnann.com/images/pn_w1402.jpg

Paul

[Wayne]

Hmmm, I was reading about taking pictures from planes and most recommended a
300mm lens..

> crab the plane to get the wing up out of the way for photos, but you don't
have
> much left rudder available. Plan on no more than half an hour of shooting
before
> your left leg gives out. I would avoid using lens larger than about 100mm
unless
> you have one of those gyroscopically stabilized units.
>
Real good idea!

> I would recommend using a good camera strap, just in case.

[Dindon]

CVBreard wrote:

> Third, don't rest your arms, elbows or the camera on any part of the airframe,
> keep the camera back inside the cabin out of the slipstream, etc., etc.


That's so there isn't any vibration transmitted through the airplane to
the camera. If you do need to rest it against any piece of the plane,
use a bean bag, which will dampen any vibration and stabilize it.

> Finally, I shoot aerial photos at a SAFE altitude, typically 1500' agl and at
> low cruise speed - none of this slow flight, flaps down stuff.


http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X17575&key=1
I used to know this airplane's previous owner (not the one who was killed)

[BTIZ]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "paperwork" associated with removal
of window.. it's great that everyone always mentions opening the window once
in flight...

For "removal" of the window and then flying sans window.. would that not
require a Form337 and approval?

To open the window once flying is not a problem.. just remember to hang on
until it stabilizes in the slip stream.. and if it's a bumpy day.. it could
slam down on your arm.. healthy slipstream also at 80-100mph

I once had a passenger in a C-172, feeling a bit warm in the bumps decided
he needed air to alleviate his queasiness.. and with no warning he unlatched
the window.. the resultant BANG.. got my attention.. power to idle.. my
first thought was a prop failure or a bird strike..

1 second later I realize his window is open.. after collecting my
thoughts... I gently reach over and closed it.. (it had stopped on the
window limit braces and not slammed up against the bottom of the wing) and
the showed him the wing root fresh air vents and put it full force on him.

BT
"Simone Canosa" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all... wondering if there is anyone out there that could suggest the
> best way to remove the passenger window to take photos...
>
> I know about unscrewing the retainer from the window... but just wanted to
> know if there are any points to watch out for .. best speed etc...
>
> The plane is not mine..and the flight school wouldn't be too thrilled if
>
> a)I told them what I was planning to do
> b) came back with a broken or REALLY scratched side window
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> :o)
>
>
> Simon
>
>

[Simone Canosa]

Thanks to everyone... tons of usefull information,

Cheers

Simon



BTIZ > wrote in message
DTyzb.2505$yf.2101@fed1read01...
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "paperwork" associated with removal
> of window.. it's great that everyone always mentions opening the window
once
> in flight...
>
> For "removal" of the window and then flying sans window.. would that not
> require a Form337 and approval?
>
> To open the window once flying is not a problem.. just remember to hang on
> until it stabilizes in the slip stream.. and if it's a bumpy day.. it
could
> slam down on your arm.. healthy slipstream also at 80-100mph
>
> I once had a passenger in a C-172, feeling a bit warm in the bumps decided
> he needed air to alleviate his queasiness.. and with no warning he
unlatched
> the window.. the resultant BANG.. got my attention.. power to idle.. my
> first thought was a prop failure or a bird strike..
>
> 1 second later I realize his window is open.. after collecting my
> thoughts... I gently reach over and closed it.. (it had stopped on the
> window limit braces and not slammed up against the bottom of the wing) and
> the showed him the wing root fresh air vents and put it full force on him.
>
> BT
> "Simone Canosa" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi all... wondering if there is anyone out there that could suggest the
> > best way to remove the passenger window to take photos...
> >
> > I know about unscrewing the retainer from the window... but just wanted
to
> > know if there are any points to watch out for .. best speed etc...
> >
> > The plane is not mine..and the flight school wouldn't be too thrilled
if
> >
> > a)I told them what I was planning to do
> > b) came back with a broken or REALLY scratched side window
> >
> > Thanks to all,
> >
> > :o)
> >
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dale wrote:
>
> I've opened windows in 150/152/172/182 and 206 and never noticed any
> roll or need for any aileron and for certain "nearly full" aileron was
> not needed.

You're absolutely correct - that should've been nearly full left *rudder*.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[Dale]

In article >,
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:


>
> You're absolutely correct - that should've been nearly full left *rudder*.

I still have the same question. I've never noticed a need for control
input with a window open.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dale wrote:
>
> In article >,
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:
>
> > You're absolutely correct - that should've been nearly full left *rudder*.
>
> I still have the same question. I've never noticed a need for control
> input with a window open.

I did in my '69 Cessna 150J.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[G.R. Patterson III]

Wayne wrote:
>
> Hmmm, I was reading about taking pictures from planes and most recommended a
> 300mm lens..

While the focal length is desireable, it's difficult to hold a lens that large
steady in something like a 150. If you opt for the longer lenses, I would also
opt for 400 ASA film and use a fast shutter speed.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[CVBreard]

A couple of additional comments:

1.) I generally shoot behind the strut rather than ahead of it (between the
strut and the fuselage), and usually about the 9 o'clock or even 8 o'clock
position in an effort to keep the strut out of the image. I push the seat back
as far as safe.

2.) I generally shoot at 1/750th, even with the two Canon Image Stabilizing
lens 'on'. 400 speed film. I routinely shoot at 200 - 300mm f/l.

3.) You may want to check the window HINGES, particularly in older 150/152/172
series. They may not have been lubricated in DECADES. One of our PAPA members
reports losing a window in flight because the hinge failed.

4.) I've not encountered any significant yaw , pitch or roll problems in any of
the 150/152 and 172s I have flown with the pilot's side window open, no
tired-leg, etc.

5.) Altitude is your friend. The 1500' agl I typically shoot at gives me a
significant additional margin of safety (over, say, 1000' agl) if I have engine
trouble (and I did), generally has smoother air, fewer TV towers. If you can't
get acceptable images at 1500', maybe you need another lens (or camera). :-)

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:04:37 -0500, G.R. Patterson III wrote:

> I did in my '69 Cessna 150J.

And I have in my 74 and in a rental 75 and in a rental 66. All required
rudder input only.

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:04:37 -0500, G.R. Patterson III wrote:
>
> > I did in my '69 Cessna 150J.
>
> And I have in my 74 and in a rental 75 and in a rental 66. All required
> rudder input only.

Which is what I said.

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:35:22 -0500, G.R. Patterson III wrote:

> Which is what I said.

Yup, the second time and I wanted to agree with you and support your
correct observation.

I don't know how those that claim to not notice any change have that
effect since every plane I've ever flown exhibits that change. Of course,
if both windows are open it's a different story, maybe their planes leak
air more than the ones I've flown.