Wing-support for Duo one-person assembly

[Dave Nadler]

Hi All - I'm looking for recommendations for a
wing-dolly for solo assembly of the Duo Discus.
The one we have has broken for the umpteenth time.

I am very spoiled with the Lange unit that I
always use for self-assembly of my Antares 20E.
It is quick, easy, sturdy, and includes a gas-
strut to allow one-hand height adjustment (gas
spring matches weight of wing, with a lock that
is unlatched and re-latched with one's toe).
Unlike many rigging aids:
* It does not fall over while I pull the wing
out of the trailer.
* It rolls easily over uneven ground.
* It takes one hand to adjust the height, and I
do not have to crawl under the wing to adjust
the height.
* It does not lean dangerously.
* It does not damage the wing.
* It has no loose parts (two pieces in trailer)
* It requires no power
* It does not require extensive training to operate

I'm hoping to find something similarly easy
for our Duo. Any recommendations ?
Especially FIRST HAND experience from REGULAR use ?

Note that the Duo wing is HEAVY and HIGH OFF
THE GROUND. Very different from a 15m wing...

Thanks in advance,
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

[Mike the Strike]

On Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:48:49 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> Hi All - I'm looking for recommendations for a
>
> wing-dolly for solo assembly of the Duo Discus.
>
> The one we have has broken for the umpteenth time.
>
>
>
> I am very spoiled with the Lange unit that I
>
> always use for self-assembly of my Antares 20E.
>
> It is quick, easy, sturdy, and includes a gas-
>
> strut to allow one-hand height adjustment (gas
>
> spring matches weight of wing, with a lock that
>
> is unlatched and re-latched with one's toe).
>
> Unlike many rigging aids:
>
> * It does not fall over while I pull the wing
>
> out of the trailer.
>
> * It rolls easily over uneven ground.
>
> * It takes one hand to adjust the height, and I
>
> do not have to crawl under the wing to adjust
>
> the height.
>
> * It does not lean dangerously.
>
> * It does not damage the wing.
>
> * It has no loose parts (two pieces in trailer)
>
> * It requires no power
>
> * It does not require extensive training to operate
>
>
>
> I'm hoping to find something similarly easy
>
> for our Duo. Any recommendations ?
>
> Especially FIRST HAND experience from REGULAR use ?
>
>
>
> Note that the Duo wing is HEAVY and HIGH OFF
>
> THE GROUND. Very different from a 15m wing...
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

Dave:

Not sure that you'll be able to meet all those requirements, but I suggest you talk to Steve Koerner who manufactures the WingRigger here in Arizona. There are probably more of these in use in the USA than any others, so he must be doing something right!

Mike

[RN]

John Earlywine

I have similar issues with the DG-1000.

Mark Mocho where are you? Are you listening?

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

Dave,

Are the wings comparable in weight? Make a Duo Cuff for your Antares rigger.

Just a thought

Steve

[Helge Zembold]

Hi All - I'm looking for recommendations for a
wing-dolly for solo assembly of the Duo Discus.


Hi Dave,

we have been using the wing dolly by IMI-Gliding (www.imi-gliding.com) for some time. Some mates from my club are using theirs also for a Janus and an Arcus M. They have modified it with bigger wheels for better stability. It also works with a gas spring which you fix with a screw.

We have also tested Cobra's wing dolly but found it to be to unstable.

However, we are always two when rigging the duo, it just takes too long alone.

Bye, Helge

[Morgan[_2_]]

Hi Dave,

I have played around with the Wingrigger for single place ships with my Duo.. Steve makes an XC (extended chord) model for bigger ships. The single place model fit the Duo quite well, but needed a longer clamp, only about 5" more though. The XC model would be what I'd buy. Sturdy and well designed. Plenty of spring strength for the Duo wing and height as well.

I haven't bought one yet, but given the weight I am considering it. If only to help my wingtip person with the weight. Given the height at the tip, it's always awkward to transition from the low to high position.

Morgan

[[email protected]]

I have the IMI-Gliding one man rigger for my Ventus cM, and it works fine. I frequently use the same device for the outboard wings of an ASH25 (no modifications) with no problems. The wings of the ASH are 85 kg and lighter than those of a Duo, but then my rigger aid is the one for single seaters. Nice stuff.

[JS]

Did anyone buy Udo's tooling and leftover parts? Seems he wanted very little for the lot. YO it was in "your neck of the woods" too.
Jim

[[email protected]]

When you lift the tip of the main wing panel to pull it out of the trailer, how many pounds are you lifting?

And what is the total piece weight of the DD inboard wing panel?

[[email protected]]

Hi Dave!

I use the IMI single-seater for my Antares, In teh club we use the IMI double-seater version for the Arcus. I prefer the IMI over the Lange.

Have Fun

Hans


Am Donnerstag, 30. August 2012 15:48:49 UTC+2 schrieb Dave Nadler:
> Hi All - I'm looking for recommendations for a
>
> wing-dolly for solo assembly of the Duo Discus.
>
> The one we have has broken for the umpteenth time.
>
>
>
> I am very spoiled with the Lange unit that I
>
> always use for self-assembly of my Antares 20E.
>
> It is quick, easy, sturdy, and includes a gas-
>
> strut to allow one-hand height adjustment (gas
>
> spring matches weight of wing, with a lock that
>
> is unlatched and re-latched with one's toe).
>
> Unlike many rigging aids:
>
> * It does not fall over while I pull the wing
>
> out of the trailer.
>
> * It rolls easily over uneven ground.
>
> * It takes one hand to adjust the height, and I
>
> do not have to crawl under the wing to adjust
>
> the height.
>
> * It does not lean dangerously.
>
> * It does not damage the wing.
>
> * It has no loose parts (two pieces in trailer)
>
> * It requires no power
>
> * It does not require extensive training to operate
>
>
>
> I'm hoping to find something similarly easy
>
> for our Duo. Any recommendations ?
>
> Especially FIRST HAND experience from REGULAR use ?
>
>
>
> Note that the Duo wing is HEAVY and HIGH OFF
>
> THE GROUND. Very different from a 15m wing...
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

[Dave Nadler]

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 4:58:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Hi Dave!
>
> I use the IMI single-seater for my Antares, In teh club we use
> the IMI double-seater version for the Arcus. I prefer the IMI over the Lange.
>
> Have Fun
> Hans

Thanks Hans !
See ya, Dave

PS: Hans has an Antares 18 - no batteries in the wing !

PS: Hans - Further questions about the the IMI double-seat version:
- suitable for one-person assembly ?
- spring strong enough to offset the weight of the wing ?
- have you used this on a Duo (much bigger chord than Arcus) ?
- do you have to go under the wing to adjust or lock the height ?

[Barry[_4_]]

Dave,

I use a wingrigger on my Arcus and it works fine. Steve strengthened the unit and added larger tires.

Barry (ARC)

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 8:29:39 PM UTC-4, Barry wrote:
> Dave,
>
>
>
> I use a wingrigger on my Arcus and it works fine. Steve strengthened the unit and added larger tires.
>
>
>
> Barry (ARC)

So you solo rig your Arcus?

[[email protected]]

Am Montag, 3. September 2012 00:02:43 UTC+2 schrieb Dave Nadler:
>
> PS: Hans - Further questions about the the IMI double-seat version:
> - suitable for one-person assembly ?
I think one could do it, but I have nevery tried it, because in club there are always other people around and we just use it so that we do not have to carry the heavyt wing

> - spring strong enough to offset the weight of the > wing ?
Yes (it is not a spring but a gas strud)

> - have you used this on a Duo (much bigger chord than Arcus) ?
No, but there is much room for adjustment of teh fixation.

> - do you have to go under the wing to adjust or lock the height ?
Yes, this feature is much more ellegantly solved with the Lange design. But I see no safety risk in this.

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, September 3, 2012 7:09:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Am Montag, 3. September 2012 00:02:43 UTC+2 schrieb Dave Nadler:
> > - do you have to go under the wing to adjust or lock the height ?
>
> Yes, this feature is much more ellegantly solved with the Lange
> design. But I see no safety risk in this.

The risk is to my inflexible spine...
I really don't want to be repeatedly bending over
and/or crawling under the wing.
This is NOT necessary with a good design !

Thanks again,
Best Regards, Dave

[[email protected]]

Am Montag, 3. September 2012 17:11:15 UTC+2 schrieb Dave Nadler:
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 7:09:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> > Am Montag, 3. September 2012 00:02:43 UTC+2 schrieb Dave Nadler:
>
> > > - do you have to go under the wing to adjust or lock the height ?
> > Yes, this feature is much more elegantly solved with the Lange
> > design. But I see no safety risk in this.
>
<snip>

> I really don't want to be repeatedly bending over
> and/or crawling under the wing.
> This is NOT necessary with a good design !
>

You are right is not necessary, but the the additional comfort (or usability in you case) comes with a higher price tag. When I adjust the hight of the wing I normally sit on the round and do not bend my back.

[Morgan[_2_]]

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 11:44:38 AM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
> When you lift the tip of the main wing panel to pull it out of the trailer, how many pounds are you lifting?
>
>
>
> And what is the total piece weight of the DD inboard wing panel?

Total weight is 215lbs I believe. I haven't ever stepped on a scale while picking up either the wing tip or the root. I'd guess the split is like 130lb/85lb or something like that between the root and the tip. It's heavy, but mostly it is awkward.

There is a lot of weight on the trailing edge once you rotate flat. Then for the person at the tip, the height is very high given the dihedral. When Julie and I rig, the tip is at about shoulder height for her.

[Ventus_a]

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 4:58:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Hi Dave!

I use the IMI single-seater for my Antares, In teh club we use
the IMI double-seater version for the Arcus. I prefer the IMI over the Lange.

Have Fun
Hans

Thanks Hans !
See ya, Dave

PS: Hans has an Antares 18 - no batteries in the wing !

PS: Hans - Further questions about the the IMI double-seat version:
- suitable for one-person assembly ?
- spring strong enough to offset the weight of the wing ?
- have you used this on a Duo (much bigger chord than Arcus) ?
- do you have to go under the wing to adjust or lock the height ?


Hi Dave

I bought Paul Cordell's Nimbus 3D a couple of years or so back and it had a very basic wing rigger with it. I one man rig without any problems. It uses a mechanical screw height adjustment but once it is set it hardly needs any fiddling. To get the fine adjustment for pin alignment I adjust the fuse up or down with the fuse cradle jack(Cobra trailer). I've seen people with much fancier and more complex gear have more trouble, you just gotta have the knack

Although the Duo is quite high at the outer end of the inner panel I wouldn't think you would have too much trouble with a well set up wing rigger

Weather permitting I'll get you some photos tomorrow and email them to you

Cheers
Colin

[Dave Nadler]

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:51:03 AM UTC-4, Ventus_a wrote:
> Hi Dave
>
> I bought Paul Cordell's Nimbus 3D a couple of years or so back and it
> had a very basic wing rigger with it. I one man rig without any
> problems. It uses a mechanical screw height adjustment but once it is
> set it hardly needs any fiddling. To get the fine adjustment for pin
> alignment I adjust the fuse up or down with the fuse cradle jack(Cobra
> trailer). I've seen people with much fancier and more complex gear have
> more trouble, you just gotta have the knack
>
> Although the Duo is quite high at the outer end of the inner panel I
> wouldn't think you would have too much trouble with a well set up wing
> rigger
>
> Weather permitting I'll get you some photos tomorrow and email them to
> you
>
> Cheers
> Colin

Thanks Colin !

[Dave Nadler]

On Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:49:24 PM UTC-4, Steve Leonard wrote:
> Make a Duo Cuff for your Antares rigger.

The two gliders live in different places.
I guess I could buy another unit from Lange
and rework the cuff. Might require other mods
(increase height) - may be simpler to build
my own from scratch rather to buy a project !

See ya, Dave

[Dave Nadler]

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:32:18 AM UTC-4, Morgan wrote:
> Total weight is 215lbs I believe. I haven't ever stepped on a scale
> while picking up either the wing tip or the root. I'd guess the split
> is like 130lb/85lb or something like that between the root and the tip.
> It's heavy, but mostly it is awkward.
>
>
> There is a lot of weight on the trailing edge once you rotate flat.

That means the hinge-point for the wing-saddle is incorrectly
positioned. If the rigging aid is properly designed, there should
be almost no rotation force once the wing is ~level.
Which unit is this one ?


> Then for the person at the tip, the height is very high given the dihedral.
> When Julie and I rig, the tip is at about shoulder height for her.

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave

[Dave Nadler]

On Thursday, August 30, 2012 12:10:53 PM UTC-4, RN wrote:
> John Earlywine
> I have similar issues with the DG-1000.
> Mark Mocho where are you? Are you listening?

What brand rigging aid are you currently using ?

Thanks,
Best Regards, Dave

[Morgan[_2_]]

> > There is a lot of weight on the trailing edge once you rotate flat.
>
>
>
> That means the hinge-point for the wing-saddle is incorrectly
>
> positioned. If the rigging aid is properly designed, there should
>
> be almost no rotation force once the wing is ~level.
>
> Which unit is this one ?


Sorry, conflated statements. I was purely speaking to the balance of the Duo wing when manually assembling the glider. The CG is aft of the spar a bit. I also have to make sure when you have extra helpers that they don't lift on the leading edge or on the leading edge side of the handle at the tip. Nothing like trying to manage the root of the wing and then have another 20lbs of torque applied.

The reason I would buy the XC version of the wing rigger was in order to ensure proper balance on the rigger. It doesn't meet your requirement for being able to easily adjust the height without going under the wing or crouching.

[[email protected]]

Hi!

Enstroj makes what you are looking for,
http://www.enstroj.si/Glider-products/one-man-glider-assembly.html

I have used this rigging aid and it great.

Mike

[[email protected]]

We've used an Udo rigger that was made for an ASW-20 on our DG-505 Orion quite successfully simply by making the trailing edge clamp longer to deal with the greater chord. I've got one for my 15b and like it better than the others I've seen. I actually prefer the mechanical jack to the gas spring setup on some riggers. I think what really makes the Udos work well though is how good a job he did making the wing saddle - very substantial and fits nice and snug to the contour of the wing.